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-   -   Anyone know Canadian self defense laws? (https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/120-ontario/128560-anyone-know-canadian-self-defense-laws.html)

Back-Space 08-20-2011 11:32 PM

So I heard something outside at about midnight. I look out the window and I see two people on the property looking in our vehicles windows(I mean right up next to the house). I run downstairs and outside. When they heard the door, they took off running, so I chased em around the corner of the property and down the street. When I caught up to them they stopped and turned and we started yelling at each other in the street. They said they were just cutting the corner, and I told them I saw them up by the cars. They asked me what I was going to do, so I said(despite my hard feelings for the "police force" in the area), that I would call the police if I caught them there again. So the one replies with "call the police right now, and I'll ******* kill you. Give them a reason to arrest me" - or something along those lines. So I told them to get lost(with some slightly more colourful words ), and that if they came back I'd be calling the police. I turned and started walking home as we yelled further obscenities at each other.

Here's the question... The one got in my face when he told me to call the cops and I half considered swinging at him while his buddy was 2 or 3 steps behind him. You know? If there was going to be a fight, get the first shot seeing as I'm outnumbered? If I would have had my phone, I would have pulled it out when he told me to call the police. Now since I'm up guarding the house at the moment, what would I be allowed to do if dumb and dumber return and someone attacks me? Am I meant to keep my hands to myself and just hope a neighbour wakes up and calls police? I realize Canada does a great job at increasing the rights of criminals while reducing the rights of the people who actually obey the law, so that could be exactly what I'm meant to do If anyone knows, I'd love to get an idea of what would be considered self defense, and what would be considered assault.

My BBM friends are telling me to stay inside. Unfortunately my car isn't insured for vandalism, so if they come back and go nuts on my car, it's out of my pocket... and I can't afford it. Plus I've got a new job to go to on Monday and can't afford to miss work, so protecting my property is a priority. Any ideas/help/links would be appreciated

*AHIMSA* 08-21-2011 12:01 AM

I'm sorry that happened, still, I can't understand why you thought it was a good idea to chase them past the point of your property and curse at them. they now know what you look like, where you live and based on what you said, seem to have reason to lash out against you. People are scary and warped. Again, I am sorry this happened. Best of luck.

Back-Space 08-21-2011 12:09 AM

I thought threatening to kill me was a tad extreme, but I suppose. I guess when they took off running, I assumed they were up to no good... Well.... Anyone snooping around your house at 12am is up to something Just instinctive to chase. Ugggghhh... I wish we had American laws up here. Go out with a gun and say "Come back! I dare you! ". So much more respect for people when there's a chance they'll kill you. Sad that's the way it is, but...

*AHIMSA* 08-21-2011 12:22 AM

I don't know that fear= respect really. In fact I don't feel it's "respect" at all.

I would have thought they were up to no good too, which is why I would've stayed inside the (relative) safety of my own home, phone in hand! I mean really, what did you expect would happen when and if you caught them? You'd have a nice conversation and work it all out? You'd miraculously overpower the two of them and accomplish something (what, I don't know).

Back-Space 08-21-2011 12:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AHIMSA* View Post

I don't know that fear= respect really. In fact I don't feel it's "respect" at all.

I would have thought they were up to no good too, which is why I would've stayed inside the (relative) safety of my own home, phone in hand! I mean really, what did you expect would happen when and if you caught them? You'd have a nice conversation and work it all out? You'd miraculously overpower the two of them and accomplish something (what, I don't know).

Was just seeing who they were Alot of the people in town drive their own cars... so we've got a "if you don't wreck my crap, I wont wreck your crap" peace treaty going on between the kids in town. The girls are telling me the same thing... Stay inside, load the gun, call the cops. The guys are telling me I should have been quiet about it and followed them home, which thinking about it now, likely would have been best. Sitting inside, allowing people to damage my property while I wait 20 minutes for police to respond isn't me... I've never been like that. And considering we've had 3 separate occasions where police have completely ignored drunk drivers, I doubt they'd even show up. You're right, though. Staying inside and calling the police would be safest. Probably what I would suggest to somebody else.

Back-Space 08-21-2011 12:42 AM

And yes... maybe respect is the wrong word. But I'm okay with feared

*AHIMSA* 08-21-2011 12:48 AM

But that's not what happened. They didn't damage your property. You could have called out to them, saying "Get away from my car" or "Get off my property, the police have been notified" without them even SEEING you. They likely would have run away, just as they did and you could have remained anonymous and avoided conflict, calling the police if you wanted to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back-Space View Post

Sitting inside, allowing people to damage my property while I wait 20 minutes for police to respond isn't me... I've never been like that.


*AHIMSA* 08-21-2011 12:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back-Space View Post

And yes... maybe respect is the wrong word. But I'm okay with feared

Well YEEEhaw! I have no clue what the laws are like there. I know that I have lived in some areas where my car was repeatedly vandalized and some even stolen. I've had people break into my apartment too. It's so unsettling.

Back-Space 08-21-2011 06:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AHIMSA* View Post

But that's not what happened. They didn't damage your property. You could have called out to them, saying "Get away from my car" or "Get off my property, the police have been notified" without them even SEEING you. They likely would have run away, just as they did and you could have remained anonymous and avoided conflict, calling the police if you wanted to.

I'm not sure how anonymous I'd be when they know what house I live in It's not like they'd have no idea who I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AHIMSA* View Post

Well YEEEhaw! I have no clue what the laws are like there. I know that I have lived in some areas where my car was repeatedly vandalized and some even stolen. I've had people break into my apartment too. It's so unsettling.

Yeah. We need to contact Stick Death and purchase the rights to their anti-theft devices I'll install one of the system on your car tomorrow. Now that's an America I'd be proud to live in Where our vehicles would kill intruders for us Lol. If anyone goes looking for the videos on youtube, they're not suitable for children(even though I first watched them as a kid )

*AHIMSA* 08-21-2011 09:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back-Space View Post

I'm not sure how anonymous I'd be when they know what house I live in It's not like they'd have no idea who I am.

Now you're just being difficult. They wouldn't know your FACE and you wouldn't be all up IN THEIRS, cursing and acting all menacing like! That kind of anonymity! I mean, there could be several guys who live there, right?

Back-Space 08-21-2011 05:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AHIMSA* View Post

Now you're just being difficult. They wouldn't know your FACE and you wouldn't be all up IN THEIRS, cursing and acting all menacing like! That kind of anonymity! I mean, there could be several guys who live there, right?

I like being difficult I'm the only one who lives here with my parents, but sure I wasn't being menacing. My neighbours know and trust me. If I got in a fight, I'd be willing to put money on it that Kevin(Who's house I was near) would run out to help me. I know people were awake, because there's no way everyone with their windows open missed us screaming at each other in the street But we found out what they were doing.... When they ran around the corner of our property they threw a pile of gas caps into the bush. I didn't see them do that because they had a good head start on me, but we've just found them. We called the neighbour with the diesel truck and he's missing his, as is the neighbour next to him. So we've got some others to find the owners to. They were looking at the back of our car because they couldn't find the gas tank on the thing. So just like that, if they didn't ditch the caps, they would have cost those people between $50-$100 + the inconvenience.

Damn kids.

dormouse 08-21-2011 06:30 PM

Sorry this happened to you, Back-Space. Luckily it sounds like these were just dumb pranksters/thieves/kids, and they probably only threatened you out of fear.

paperhanger 08-21-2011 06:33 PM

I thought Canadians got free auto insurance?

Clueless Git 08-21-2011 07:37 PM

I had something similar happen once ..

I just approached the suspicious guy and asked him if he was looking for someone or was lost or something. Totaly non confrontational but he then knew that some one was not afraid to approach him and that someone had had gotten a real good look at his face.

No accounting for total and nutters, obviously. Just had it mind that anyone up to no good would likely move away from any area where a damn good description could be given to the ploice if he got up to mischeif there was all.

vegansarawr 08-22-2011 01:24 AM

Canadian self defense laws are weird, if anything they are non existent. If you hit them (even on your property) they can charge you with assault.

Back-Space 08-22-2011 04:42 AM

Thanks, guys

@Paperhanger - Hahaha! No! When I first got my G2(license to drive on my own), I called Progressive and was offered $712(I think. In the 700's somewhere) for 1 million liability(minimum), theft, and fire. And that doesn't even put gas in the car Quite a bit of money when you only clear $1200 a month.

vegansarawr 08-22-2011 12:19 PM

^^ And that is why I don't drive.

sequoia 08-22-2011 03:35 PM

land mines

Kimberlily1983 08-23-2011 08:31 PM

Yikes!

I seem to have a knack for not being online when crazy **** happens, don't I? First the troll invasion, now this.

If you're ever wondering about our laws, check the Criminal Code of Canada. For this particular problem, see Defence of Person and Defence of Property in Part I.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/

Have to say, though, I think you're nuts going after them like that. Who's to say they won't come back out of spite now? I'm with the others who said hide in the house, call the cops, maybe turn on lights so they know someone's home or open up a window and ask who's there or something, but run after them? That could have ended much more badly, and you may have lined yourself up for more trouble.

paperhanger 08-24-2011 08:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back-Space View Post

Thanks, guys

@Paperhanger - Hahaha! No! When I first got my G2(license to drive on my own), I called Progressive and was offered $712(I think. In the 700's somewhere) for 1 million liability(minimum), theft, and fire. And that doesn't even put gas in the car Quite a bit of money when you only clear $1200 a month.


Is that rate per month or per year?

*AHIMSA* 08-24-2011 09:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimberlily1983 View Post

Have to say, though, I think you're nuts going after them like that. Who's to say they won't come back out of spite now? I'm with the others who said hide in the house, call the cops, maybe turn on lights so they know someone's home or open up a window and ask who's there or something, but run after them? That could have ended much more badly, and you may have lined yourself up for more trouble.


Back-Space 08-25-2011 07:23 PM

@Paperhanger, that's per month.... Good chunk of your income when minimum wage only leaves you with like $1300 a month. That leaves you with $600 for gas, rent, groceries... Screwed up country

@Kimberly. They're welcome to come back. The neighbour knows where they live and took me to their houses. If ANYTHING happens to our property within the next couple of months.... The one's got a car, which he loves! HAHAHA He's outside washing it everyday Who risks going out vandalizing cars when you've got your own at home? I could just imagine the reaction if somebody had gone and done that to their car Funny how things work out, isn't it I'm not worried.

*AHIMSA* 08-25-2011 07:26 PM

That sounds...creepy and out of balance, Back-Space.

Kimberlily1983 08-25-2011 07:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back-Space View Post

@Kimberly. They're welcome to come back. The neighbour knows where they live and took me to their houses. If ANYTHING happens to our property within the next couple of months.... The one's got a car, which he loves! HAHAHA He's outside washing it everyday Who risks going out vandalizing cars when you've got your own at home? I could just imagine the reaction if somebody had gone and done that to their car Funny how things work out, isn't it I'm not worried.

You're right. Nothing could go wrong pissing these kinds of characters off. They never have big, scary mean friends or anything like that. Not that it matters, because you're invincible. What was I thinking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AHIMSA* View Post

That sounds...creepy and out of balance, Back-Space.

Not a fan of vigilantism?


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