Friend sounds abusive to animals... how can I change him? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 02-16-2009, 07:02 AM
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I have a good friend of mine who I really, REALLY want to change. He is the only friend I have that makes me feel inspired MOST of the time after I talk to him. He has a lot of good things to say about spirituality, the universe, positivity and etc, but at the same time he thinks very differently on key issues with me. He used to live on a farm for a while and has slaughtered animals for meat (but at the same time I'm not sure if I believe him), but his defense was that it wasn't for profit, only for feeding himself and his family and he doesn't feel meat is wrong. I can understand how some people can be brainwashed into thinking meat is perfectly natural.... but he then mentioned to me the other day about some methods he uses to "punish" his 5 month old puppies. He says he will spank them if they do something wrong or just tell them "no", but if they do something real bad he will put them in this big storage place on his property for a week. He will give them food and water and take them out to go to the bathroom and if it's real cold he won't have them sit out there, but he says he does it as a means of punishment so they won't do what they did again (and he claims it works). This really disturbed me and it's hard to imagine someone I can talk to for hours, especially about positivity, and someone who is incredibly intelligent, do this. I feel he has enough "goodness" inside of him to change (but perhaps as a friend I'm being blinded). I also take into consideration that his outlook on discipline is different from mine since his mother used to be incredibly abusive as a means of punishment (she's been committed twice and has used knives, whips and etc to beat him).



Is there anything I can say to change an individual like this? Has anyone here been able to change someone who was anti-animal rights into being pro-animal rights? What are some ways I could make him see what he's doing is wrong?
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#2 Old 02-16-2009, 07:49 AM
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what sort of behavior is he punishing the puppies for? i want to write more, but i just feel like crying after reading your post.

"Somewhere along the way, someone is going to tell you, 'There is no "I" in team.' What you should tell them is, 'Maybe not. But there is an "I" in independence, individuality and integrity." Â George Carlin
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#3 Old 02-16-2009, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Veggily View Post

what sort of behavior is he punishing the puppies for? i want to write more, but i just feel like crying after reading your post.



I know, I'm sorry. It made me physically sick when he told me. His dog pooped on the bed, next to him after he made the dog get down. The other time he said he put one of the dogs in "time out" for a week was when the dog had run down the street and wouldn't come back.
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#4 Old 02-16-2009, 02:28 PM
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Has he seen photos of animals abuse, or watched one of the Animal Cops shows? That might help, it's helped my parents.
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#5 Old 02-16-2009, 02:42 PM
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I hate to sound so absolute but I don't think I could have a friend who was that cruel to any living thing. He is abusing his animals, and it's not fair to them. Perhaps if you let him know how serious you view it and how viscerally disturbing you find it, perhaps that'll help. But it sounds like he has some issues.
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#6 Old 02-16-2009, 07:04 PM
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Possibly getting him to take a good training course with the puppy will make a difference. He seems to think he "knows" a dogs behavior and thinks that long punishment is a good tool for correcting them. Maybe getting him in a situation where an expert is telling him how to correct a dog's behavior will help him to use more positive and humane methods.
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#7 Old 02-16-2009, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicojuarz View Post

Possibly getting him to take a good training course with the puppy will make a difference. He seems to think he "knows" a dogs behavior and thinks that long punishment is a good tool for correcting them. Maybe getting him in a situation where an expert is telling him how to correct a dog's behavior will help him to use more positive and humane methods.

This sounds like a really good idea. Is it feasible?

"Somewhere along the way, someone is going to tell you, 'There is no "I" in team.' What you should tell them is, 'Maybe not. But there is an "I" in independence, individuality and integrity." Â George Carlin
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#8 Old 02-17-2009, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Desira View Post

Has he seen photos of animals abuse, or watched one of the Animal Cops shows? That might help, it's helped my parents.



I'll try that, thanks. So doing that made your parents more sensitive to animals or animal rights?



Quote:
Originally Posted by broccolichick View Post

I hate to sound so absolute but I don't think I could have a friend who was that cruel to any living thing. He is abusing his animals, and it's not fair to them. Perhaps if you let him know how serious you view it and how viscerally disturbing you find it, perhaps that'll help. But it sounds like he has some issues.



I agree with you. I felt like after he said that I would have to stop being friends with him, but at the same time, he may never come into contact with another animal rights person again and I figure it's better to try and make an impact rather than leave the situation all together and he keep on doing that to the dogs. And I know it may sounds stupid, but I feel like he has potential to be better. He's had a lot of terrible stuff happen to him (he was homeless while in a wheel chair, his mom has done sickening stuff to him and his sisters, etc) and despite that he is incredibly intelligent and believes in "the secret". I think he feels like what he's doing is nothing compared to what his mom did to him, therefore its okay. Not that I'm making excuses, but that's at least what I'm hoping.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chicojuarz View Post

Possibly getting him to take a good training course with the puppy will make a difference. He seems to think he "knows" a dogs behavior and thinks that long punishment is a good tool for correcting them. Maybe getting him in a situation where an expert is telling him how to correct a dog's behavior will help him to use more positive and humane methods.



That's a good idea. He won't do that because he doesn't have money for it, but perhaps I could get a book and research some ways to "train" (I don't even like training, really) dogs and tell him about the methods.
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#9 Old 02-17-2009, 07:35 AM
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I agree with you. I felt like after he said that I would have to stop being friends with him, but at the same time, he may never come into contact with another animal rights person again and I figure it's better to try and make an impact rather than leave the situation all together and he keep on doing that to the dogs. And I know it may sounds stupid, but I feel like he has potential to be better. He's had a lot of terrible stuff happen to him (he was homeless while in a wheel chair, his mom has done sickening stuff to him and his sisters, etc) and despite that he is incredibly intelligent and believes in "the secret". I think he feels like what he's doing is nothing compared to what his mom did to him therefore its okay. Not that I'm making excuses, but that's at least what I'm hoping.





Has he ever sought help (counselling etc) for what happened in his past? If there's deep rooted issues then that might be worth exploring if he hasn't already.



Quote:
That's a good idea. He won't do that because he doesn't have money for it, but perhaps I could get a book and research some ways to "train" (I don't even like training, really) dogs and tell him about the methods.



'The culture clash' by Jean Donaldson is a great book that explains how dogs see the world and makes good suggestions as to how humans can have a positive relationship with their dog, I really recommend it.



Not all training is bad, there is a massive branch now that looks at training based on positive reinforcement and reward which is fun for both dog and owner. You might want to look at clicker training http://www.clickertraining.com/what_is_clicker_training



Be careful when looking at training resources because some trainers still use punitive methods which is obviously not what you are after.
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#10 Old 02-17-2009, 09:32 AM
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Yeah all psychologist know that positive reinforcement if amore effictive in produceing the desired behaviour than punishment... ...a week is way too long like for a simple mistake, especially when young the poor sod ain't gonna remember why it's there...



I can see why people see killing as natural, it's because it is... ...most will kill to survive, I think what your fiend is forgetting is that we don't have to...

For a forum full of hippies, this place sure does repress my freedom of speech.
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