Will the world ever change? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 11-22-2006, 07:44 AM
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I'm not really sure what I want to say in this message but I am getting very disheartended by the world, I think I am a little depressed actually but I am just so dismayed at peoples general lack of concern over how we treat our animals in factory farming and in testing, costmetic and drugs etc and even how some people treat their pets. I just feel that no matter what we do it just isn't going to end, I'm not saying that I will go back to eating animals or buying stuff tested on animals but I feel so in the minority. I can't even get my husband to understand. The 'world' it seems to me is fixed in its cruel and selfish ways and it really upsets me. Anyone else feel the same way?



Sorry to be on a downer.



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#2 Old 11-22-2006, 08:07 AM
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I go in and out of being completely depressed about the same thing. I don't know what the answer is, but I know I'm personally going to do whatever I can to promote change. It's really all each of us can do.
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#3 Old 11-22-2006, 08:21 AM
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Jesus is coming back soon, so you don't actually need to worry about the future, just worry about today and do the best you can.
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#4 Old 11-22-2006, 09:08 AM
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[QUOTE=kpickell]Jesus is coming back soon, so you don't actually need to worry about the future, just worry about today and do the best you can.[/QUOTE





Sometimes I wish He'd hurry!



Pepper,you are not a downer sweetie.We all feel that way sometimes.

There's a lot of rotten stuff going on in the world,but we just continue

to do what we do because that's who we are. I believe we make a difference;

we may not see the results we would like to see in our lifetime,but we

keep on, no matter what. Hang in there.We all know how you feel.
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#5 Old 11-22-2006, 11:44 AM
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Yeah, I feel the same way too sometimes. It's sad to think that I am one of those people. One of those cruel, heartless, animal-eating peoples. I'm trying, trying.



Man. How can something so wrong taste so right? And it's not even good for you...
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#6 Old 11-22-2006, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepper pig View Post

I'm not really sure what I want to say in this message but I am getting very disheartended by the world, I think I am a little depressed actually but I am just so dismayed at peoples general lack of concern over how we treat our animals in factory farming and in testing, costmetic and drugs etc and even how some people treat their pets. I just feel that no matter what we do it just isn't going to end, I'm not saying that I will go back to eating animals or buying stuff tested on animals but I feel so in the minority. I can't even get my husband to understand. The 'world' it seems to me is fixed in its cruel and selfish ways and it really upsets me. Anyone else feel the same way?



Sorry to be on a downer.



pp



On the animal testing for cosmetics, there's hope on the horizon. Europe is taking the first step toward doing the right thing: http://www.api4animals.org/articles?p=449&more=1
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#7 Old 11-22-2006, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kpickell View Post

Jesus is coming back soon, so you don't actually need to worry about the future, just worry about today and do the best you can.



and the smily angels will be with him. No need to worry.
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#8 Old 11-22-2006, 04:17 PM
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The world is always changing. We haven't always done the factory farming that we do now, and it could come to an end in the next 50 years. You never know.
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#9 Old 11-23-2006, 07:54 AM
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I know how you feel, but if we all just get depressed about it and not do anything, nothing will change. We need to change the world, and can only do this with determination, leading by example , educating the world, making our voices heard, dealing with our own emotions and using them in a positive direction.

Change does not happen by itself, we have to make it.

Blimey where did that all come from lol.



As Gandhi once said -



You must be the change you wish to see in the world.
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#10 Old 11-23-2006, 09:06 AM
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Let's not hold the future as fixed but focus on making the world a better place day by day.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#11 Old 11-23-2006, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Vegi Chik View Post

Yeah, I feel the same way too sometimes. It's sad to think that I am one of those people. One of those cruel, heartless, animal-eating peoples. I'm trying, trying.



Man. How can something so wrong taste so right? And it's not even good for you...



Vegi Chik, don't be discouraged. By coming to VeggieBoards, you're already making the first step. Try a bunch of the faux meat products. Boca Burgers taste just like real hamburgers to me. There's so many fake meat products that going vegetarian today is easier than ever. Even if you don't feel ready to go veg yet, try reducing your meat intake. I did that for 2 1/2 years before I took the plunge. Best of luck to you and hope you find VB a safe and supportive place.
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#12 Old 11-23-2006, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Let's not hold the future as fixed but focus on making the world a better place day by day.







AMEN!
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#13 Old 11-23-2006, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by shaved_women View Post

Vegi Chik, don't be discouraged. By coming to VeggieBoards, you're already making the first step. Try a bunch of the faux meat products. Boca Burgers taste just like real hamburgers to me. There's so many fake meat products that going vegetarian today is easier than ever. Even if you don't feel ready to go veg yet, try reducing your meat intake. I did that for 2 1/2 years before I took the plunge. Best of luck to you and hope you find VB a safe and supportive place.



Thank you so much! Sometimes I feel like I want to go veggie, and other times it's like, "who cares?". But I do know that when I say I'm a vegetarian but really I'm not..I'm a hypocrite and a terrible person
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#14 Old 11-23-2006, 05:55 PM
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Yes pepper pig, I believe the world is changing. More and more people change their ways every day. I see soy milk in the dairy section at the store. I see mock meat in the freezer section. This was something I never saw when I was a child. The change is slow and sometimes hard to see, but it is there.



I honestly believe that someday, maybe not in out lifetime but someday, omnivores will be a minority.



I can offer no greater proof of change than this: I grew up on a dairy farm, but now I am a vegan. I was once the opposition, but now I am your ally. If someone like me can learn to see the truth, surely others will follow.



So cheer up pepper (and you too Vegi Chik) you are not alone. Together we can and do make a difference.



A new era is dawning!
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#15 Old 11-23-2006, 06:09 PM
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I read something a while back that astounded me....it was in a book in this new-agey bookshop...but I found it profound. The statement I read was, "What if the secret was not to try to change the world, but to learn to love the world instead." Since reading that I've been working on learning to love my own part of the world...Everyone wants their own kind of change after all...we have wars over people wanting the world to change to fit their own definition of 'what right for everyone.' But what if that's not the point. What if everyone could learn...or be taught...to simply love the world...if you love something you might most probably want to take care of that thing rather than trashing it...



who knows...I just really appreciated reading that little bit of wisdom.



B
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#16 Old 11-24-2006, 04:29 AM
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Yes you're right bethanie, love, caring and kindness is what changes the world for the better, not hate.

After I wrote the initial message I started to think - who am I to say what other people do is wrong and though I am not religious now I did remember something from my christian upbringing and that was - let him without sin cast the first stone, and I am definately not without sin so I will live and let live, carry on giving out leaflets and hopefully change others by example.



thanks all



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#17 Old 11-24-2006, 05:35 AM
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I read something a while back that astounded me....it was in a book in this new-agey bookshop...but I found it profound. The statement I read was, "What if the secret was not to try to change the world, but to learn to love the world instead." Since reading that I've been working on learning to love my own part of the world...Everyone wants their own kind of change after all...we have wars over people wanting the world to change to fit their own definition of 'what right for everyone.' But what if that's not the point. What if everyone could learn...or be taught...to simply love the world...if you love something you might most probably want to take care of that thing rather than trashing it...

I don't know, this sounds a bit apolitical to me, and I don't think anyone can afford to be apolitical.



If everyone who is now trying to change values and practices would simply "love the world" and only focused on their own attitudes, that would be pretty detrimental to any prospect of a better future. We can't just hold hands and make a mere wish that everyone else will magically join us without any external influence. Deeply held values and beliefs - like that animals are instruments for our use - require some external force to question them.



I think this is the way any progressive steps in history were made possible. Slavery wasn't abolished because the abolitionists personally didn't "trash the world" but didn't comment on the views or actions of the slave-holders; women didn't get the right to vote because men suddenly realized that they should love the world and that this would somehow entail giving women the right to vote, etc. I think all steps forward have originated from criticism, conflict and influencing society, not by doing one's mere personal share and then resting complacent.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#18 Old 11-28-2006, 05:40 PM
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Yep, as Margaret Mead said "Never let it be said that a small group of commited individuals can't change the world- indeed it is the only thing that ever has" (or words to that effect anyway)
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#19 Old 12-18-2006, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bethanie View Post

it was in a book in this new-agey bookshop...but I found it profound. The statement I read was, "What if the secret was not to try to change the world, but to learn to love the world instead."



I think that it is quite absurd to think that's it's a good thing to try to learn to "love the world" no matter what the world is like. Bethanie, what if the world was filled with people who happened to despise people or your race and that, because of your race, you got beaten to a bloody pulp on a regular basis and were told that you were going to get tortured to death before you reached age a certain age? Would this still be a world that you would want to learn to "love"? Would you think about how much you love the world as you are getting severely beaten and think how you love the people who are beating on you (after all, they are just part of the world)? Would you think that the secret is "not to try to change the world". I can't imagine how anyone could think they would.



And what if it wasn't you that was getting beaten regularily but it was people of a different race? Would you then think that it's good to love the world while they get beaten and tortured? I definitely hope not. I think that a sensible person who cares about others would not love a world like this and would try hard to change the world. And in this world, there billions of animals that are killed every year (and forced to live in torturesome conditions) and if people care about the lives of these innocent animals and realize that they should be allowed to live good lives, then it's natural to not love the world (at least the aspects of the world that cause these animals to suffer) and it's natural to then try to change the world.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pepper_pig View Post

I just feel that no matter what we do it just isn't going to end, I'm not saying that I will go back to eating animals or buying stuff tested on animals but I feel so in the minority. I can't even get my husband to understand. The 'world' it seems to me is fixed in its cruel and selfish ways and it really upsets me. Anyone else feel the same way?



Pepper_pig, major forms of animal exploitation won't end overnight just as slavery didn't end overnight but there could still be a day when the majority of people in the world believe that many kinds of animals deserve good treatment. Every year, there are more people who are becoming concerned about animal rights and the number of people could grow faster if people support organizations that discover really good ways of getting animal rights ideas out to people. There are some people who simply are unwilling to listen to ideas about animal rights, so I think people should just focus their efforts on trying to get ideas out to people who are often more open to listening to ideas about animal rights (like young people). Your husband may not be willing to listen to certain ideas about animal rights, but he's just one person, and he may change at some later time or he may encounter some arguments at some later time that make more sense to him.



I find it frustrating that the animal rights movement is growing so slowly at this point in time and I think there could be many things done to help make it grow faster, but at least it is growing and there is no reason to believe that there will never be a day when the majority of people in the world believe that animals deserve good treatment. This day may not occur in our lifetime, but the important thing is that people try to work in ways that are effective to get more and more people concerned about animal rights, and then this will make it easier for this day to occur at some point.



Pepper_pig, if you're upset that there is lots of animal exploitation that goes on in the world, then I think you should try to not let yourself get really depressed about this but instead you should try to use your upsetness as a motivator for getting involved supporting animal rights organizations through volunteer work, donations or something else. Trying to earn some extra money to donate to organizations for activist campaigns is one straight-forward way to support animal rights organizations so perhaps this is something that could work for you if you decide you want to support some animal rights organizations. I think that getting involved with helping the animal rights movement grow is a good way to deal with upsetness about having all sorts of animal exploitation occuring in the world, since most people feel better about actually working in effective ways to stop things that they think are wrong, instead of just sitting back and feeling helpless in watching the things happen.



The world is definitely changing and more and more people are working to stop animal exploitation and doing things like not eating animal products in order to avoid supporting animal exploitation, so the world is not fixed regarding the issue of animal rights. The animal rights movement is growing slowly at this time, but it could grow faster in the future and it still is possible for there to be enough people at some point so that major forms of animal exploitation (like killing animals for food) are made illegal. There are plenty of different things to try out with animal rights activist work, so it's a matter of figuring out some things that work really well and this will help the animal rights movement grow faster.
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#20 Old 12-19-2006, 06:50 AM
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I don't worry about what the world will do. I worry about what I can control; that is what I eat and use. One person can make a statement and a bunch of one persons makes a group and multiple groups make a crowd and so forth.
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#21 Old 01-08-2007, 05:29 AM
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I often get depressed and feel helpless about what is going on in the world. Especially when everytime I thought I had heard it all that happens to animals then I learn something new. This has recently happened to me in the past few weeks, I did not know about "downed cows", and I also saw a video on a tv show of the running of the bulls and they set them on fire! It showed it too. I knew that they stabbed them and stuff, but the fire was new to me. I am working on getting out of this depression, but it is hard when I have nobody to talk to about it. I try talking to my boyfriend, but he dosent listen or thinks I am trying to get him to quit eating meat. But all I am trying to do is get it out. Nobody I have ever met cares for animals like me, and nobody wants to listen or do anything about it. Most days I feel blessed with my compassion for animals, but there are some days that I feel cursed because the pain I feel for them gets so bad. I continue to do all I can no matter how I feel, and when I pray I beg God to have mercy on the animals and give me their pain. I know it sounds silly and it probably dosent work but at least I try!
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#22 Old 01-08-2007, 05:38 AM
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I agree with most of what was said here. Change takes time. We do what we can day to day. We need live by example and hopefully, little by little, people will get the message. I do think, however, that before the world can change regarding the treatment of animals, it needs to change in respect to how we treat each other. We can do with a lot more kindness, tolerance, caring towards humans first.
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#23 Old 01-08-2007, 05:37 PM
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Before you can affect change in other people or the world, you must first change yourself.



Be a living example of the higher path - the world will change, trust that it will change. Like a match in the darkness, we can and will ignite this darkened world.



It will change. It has to change. If we expect there to be any world left, it must.
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#24 Old 01-08-2007, 11:56 PM
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What we need is a time machine to go and make the necessary changes so the present won't be like this.



But since nothing last forever and time keeps moving, one day the suffering will be over as humans will have to die out at some point (either caused by some diaster or whatever), nature will be different and it will start afresh. Humans will more than likely not re-evolve (let's hope not! or lets hope its different if they do) so hopefully the new world will be different. We won't know though since we won't be here.



I am not religious nor do I believe in God so I don't believe that Jesus is coming back. There is no savior to get us out of this mess. With time, things will change and nature will one day heal itself.



For now, I take comfort in the fact that I am not one of the humans that is causing all the animal suffering. And I know that I make a difference for many animals with my choices.
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#25 Old 01-09-2007, 06:55 AM
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It's an evolutionary process. Try to change the world and you will get lost. Let your actions speak for your beliefs and if nothing else, you are not contributing to the problem; you're helping save the animals albeit a little at a time. Hopefully, others will see your actions and then adopt similar beliefs and so on.



Trying to force your beliefs on others will only cause backlash and resistance. The subtle approach works better; people are more receptive when they are not threatened. Educate them in a non-judgemental manner.
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#26 Old 01-09-2007, 09:05 PM
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Yes the word is pretty ugly now but i'm sure it will change. I will surely take a long time but by the time we are more and more and i'm sure it will become obvious even for insensitive people that non human animal are like us. I belive that by being veggie, we show people that meat is not needed, that it's a murder.
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#27 Old 01-12-2007, 12:26 PM
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Wow mybaby7, reading your post was like reading my very own thoughts...So, we are not alone after all.

I often get really depressed about it too. When this happens, and I see other people around me who don't empathize with animals the way I do, my natural reaction is "is something wrong with me?" And that's tough. It's also tough to come across people who mock you, or look at you funny because of your choices. This is the most unfair of all. This can break the spirit because here I am doing something that seems so utterly right, capital T Truth, FACT, and people completely doubt it because that's what's easiest for them.

What could be more frustrating than that?



Whenever I feel down I come here and read posts and feel better. I also remember a quote by Mother Teresa:



"Sometimes you may feel that what you are doing is just a drop in the ocean, but remember that the ocean would be less without that drop."



It would be less.



Don't let anyone break your spirit!



(I was feeling down and so I made myself t-shirts. buy a cheap t-shirt and a permanent marker. I made one that says "Peas. It's what's for dinner" y'know, like the meat campaign "beef. it's what's for dinner." And also one that says "I heart" and then I drew a block, which of course represents tofu . Also, after becoming a vegan recently, and then coming here and reading your posts, I talk to my bf and my sister and friends--



AND now my friend is a vegetarian working on veganism, my bf is slooooowly making the change, and my sister says she hasn't eaten meat since we last talked. SO EVERYONE HERE PAT YOURSELVES ON THE BACK! HOORAY FOR US!)
LL
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#28 Old 01-13-2007, 11:47 PM
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You all have been really kind here and I appreciate that. I have been to a couple of other forums and most of the people on them were pretty mean. Then I found this site and I do feel better when I come in here. Special thanks to wheesaidshe for the above post, I was feeling really down today and reading that you feel like I do really made me smile and shed a couple of happy tears that rarely come out of me. I was having a good day today, my bf and I went couch shopping then we visited my mom and my sister was visiting, when we got there she tells me that she bought everyone tacos, knowing damn well I dont eat meat. Havent for years, I know she did it on purpose, she does things like that to me. So that was my first downer, then on our way home it was pouring down rain and I was watching the scenery when I saw this poor dog leaning against a tree squinting because of the rain. He had a dog box but clearly to me he obviously couldnt get to it. It hurt so bad, it still does. I wish I could have done something for him, I just pray that he hadnt been that way very long and the people at the house noticed it quickly. He looked so sad. Anyways thanks everyone!
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#29 Old 01-14-2007, 12:15 PM
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I lay in bed sometimes trying to go to sleep and images of bad things I've seen (such as the dog you saw on your way home) will flash in my head. I remember things that I've seen years and years ago. I wonder why I do this, why I obsess over those moments? They're the real, deep down, pit of your stomach sad things to think about. Mostly I think, because you're consumed with your feelings of being unable to do anything about it.

Sometimes people make me feel this way too. I can be on the subway, and out of everyone there will be one old guy sitting by himself, and he'll just make me feel SO sad. I call these Holden Caufield Moments (ever read Catcher in the Rye?)

I guess I wish I could tell you that I have a great way to take care of these feelings, but all I've learned to do is push them out of my head, otherwise all the sad people and helpless animals I come across in life would drive me insane.

Also, my mother shared something with me. She said she felt the same way about these things, and said something that really made me think. It doesn't mean we're crazy or wrong, but she said she had an "unhealthy obsession with morbidity."



That doesn't mean she likes death or enjoys it or anything creepy like that (we had this conversation right after we had to put down a dog that my mother rescued, and I had become very attached to). It's more that we pick up on things that other people normally look over. In some weird way, this made me able to deal with it better. Maybe because I could put a name to it.



I looked up MORBID in the dictionary, and it said:



"abnormally susceptible to or characterized by gloomy or unwholesome feelings"



I think that pretty much describes those times in bed for me. I don't know why I feel the need to tell you this, maybe it will help you a little the way it did me.
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#30 Old 01-26-2007, 09:09 PM
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I am feeling the same way right now. Its like i can't escape animal cruelty. My cousin Paula and i hang out with the same group of ppl 2 of them wear fur (i have nothing 2 do w/ those wenches except to tell the one who boasts her about her "pure black chinchilla boots" were nothing but "cheap" rabbit fur) and now Paula met a girl who used to date my other cousin Matt who i was so grateful he dumped and is now dating a veggie girl. But now Paula is bringing this girl around all the time. I want to pull my hair out!
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