Where do you stand? (PETA article about Steve Irwin) - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 09-15-2006, 11:33 AM
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I was on a Peta website and it said 'Steve Irwin': Not a True 'Wildlife Warrior' and goes into an article about how he and other "conservationists" are exploiting animals. I am shocked that PETA could be so callous about someone who just died. I believe with all my heart he really loved animals and for Peta to denounce him after his death is horrible. My question is where do you stand on "exploiting" animals? I agree with zoos and ..gasp... even circuses (i had a friend whose father owned one). I think its good for people to see these animals it sparks interest. And if people are interested in something they are more likely to care about it right?
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#2 Old 09-15-2006, 12:26 PM
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Well, I don't think criticism should be silenced just because someone has died. I don't know enough about Irwin in particular, although I guess my impression is more on the negative side.



As for zoos, I don't believe someone should be kept in cage just as an "embassador" of his/her species. I know I wouldn't want to be kept in the cage for some alien species to shout at and throw crap at, just so they understand humans better. There's a detailed article about the different arguments for zoos and why they fail here: http://www.animal-rights-library.com...jamieson01.htm



As for circuses, there's no defence for them whatsoever. Their only way of presenting animals is as funny objects to be forced to entertain humans. They don't serve the interests of animals in any way, like some zoos claim to do. I don't think that's even an animal rights issue - it doesn't make sense for any serious AW advocate to condone circuses either.

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#3 Old 09-15-2006, 02:23 PM
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Just because someone has died, doesn't mean they are a sacred cow.



As for animals in circus, that must be one of the most humiliating sights one can see. Absolutely DISGUSTING.



As for zoos, I don't see why animals need to be kept in such small enclosures when sanctuaries could be provided. For instance, animals that are nearly extinct could have a much better life in a sanctuary than locked up in a zoo to be gaped at as if they were.... animals in a zoo. (Ha!!!)
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#4 Old 09-15-2006, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Well, I don't think criticism should be silenced just because someone has died.

But in this case there was no criticism of him UNTIL he died and was in the headlines. They are capitalizing on his death and it's rather shameful.
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#5 Old 09-15-2006, 08:21 PM
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What is the accepted grieving period before we can criticize someone for harassing wildlife in the name of televisual entertainment?



Don't get me wrong, whatever your opinion of Steve Irwin, I think his heart was in the right place.



But I don't think his death changes what he did in life.



To answer your questions...



Zoos are animal prisons that serve no purpose beyond frivolous human enjoyment.



Circuses are despicable, inexcusable, and shameful.



And, yes, that includes cirque du soleil.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kay9 View Post

I think its good for people to see these animals it sparks interest. And if people are interested in something they are more likely to care about it right?



The incongruity in that statement for me is that if people cared about the animals they saw at circuses and in the zoo then they wouldn't be there to see them. Knowumsayin'?



Cheers!

TJ
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#6 Old 09-15-2006, 08:59 PM
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I think some zoos do a lot for animals. Some larger zoos like the San Diego Zoo are more about saving animals than gawking at them. If it weren't for the San Diego Wild Animal Park, white rhinos would probably be extinct by now.
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#7 Old 09-15-2006, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jeezycreezy View Post

What is the accepted grieving period before we can criticize someone for harassing wildlife in the name of televisual entertainment?

2 to 3 months.
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#8 Old 09-16-2006, 12:27 AM
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I gave a toned-down version of PETA's response, somewhere on some forum, but I didn't issue a press release that borders on offensive, and is frankly making animal rights people look like nuts (as PETA often does). It's in bad taste, despite the fact that they have a point, as over the top as they make it.



Oh, and I despise the use of exotic animals in circuses. You'd think we'd have come a ways in the last 150 or more years.
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#9 Old 09-16-2006, 12:29 AM
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Can't seem to delete this.
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#10 Old 09-16-2006, 07:23 PM
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I do agree with one thing that others do here. Steve's heart was without a doubt in the right place. I fully understand the need to tape a crocs mouth shut in order to safely move it to a safe location. Here, in the South East USA(Florida), alligators over a certain size, that are considered "Nuicences", are caught and automatically destroyed with no attempts of relocating it, due to some "homing instincts" or whatever. Of course, I would much rather have Steve's method-taken to a sancuary, where it can just be a croc(alligator).



One thing I did appreciate about Steve, is that unlike other zoos and circuses, is that he never forced his animals to do unnatural tricks for our "amusement". His audiences were quite amused watching them do what was natural, even if Steve "glammed it up" for the camera.



Today, I was watching an episode of Croc Hunter that was filmed in Africa. Driving, Steve came accross a spitting cobra in the middle of the street. Rather than leaving it for a car to run over it, Steve took the risk and challenge to remove it to safety off the road, even with a disabled arm. He did indeed have courage, that's for sure.



The one thing I must disagree with Steve though, is when he held his new born son while feeding a croc. Now, I honestly believe he would never intend on harming his children, but in reality, he could not guarantee his son's safety, when there is no such thing as "absolute" safety in today's world. I understand and appreciate his desire to show off his beautiful children, I just think there could have been another way. Anyway, I am glad it all turned out well for Steve. All in all, I feel Steve was a great person who did great work.
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#11 Old 09-16-2006, 08:45 PM
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Steve Irwin was a nut, but Peta's response just goes to show you that they get too carried away with their self-righteousness.



I personally don't believe the Croc Hunter meant any ill towards animals. In fact, I think he was very passionate about animals. He was misguided, yes, but not malicious.
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#12 Old 09-16-2006, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codemonkey View Post

I think some zoos do a lot for animals. Some larger zoos like the San Diego Zoo are more about saving animals than gawking at them. If it weren't for the San Diego Wild Animal Park, white rhinos would probably be extinct by now.

One more thing before I forget: BWAHAHAHAHAH! OK I'm done.

Keep on freepin' on

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#13 Old 09-16-2006, 09:16 PM
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If it's despicable and opportunistic and wing-nutty for PETA to implicitly state that Irwin wasn't so much the dedicated "conservationist" but rather the media personality, is it just as bad for Norm MacDonald to do this, and a packed studio audience to laugh their collective a$$es off?

Keep on freepin' on

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#14 Old 09-17-2006, 05:49 PM
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I don't agree with zoos at all, especially when they obtain exoctic species. That's the most disgusting thing, since for species like chimps and gorillas, a lot of them are killed trying to protect the infant that is being captured for the zoo. It's incredibly cruel to put exotic animals in dramatically different climates, which is why they usually die young.



Sanctuaries and rehabilitation centers are far better for people to visit because they can learn about the animals while they're recuperating, and they get to see the cruelty that's often behind why the animal is there in the first place.
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#15 Old 09-17-2006, 05:56 PM
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I read PETA's article, and I don't see any problem with it.
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#16 Old 09-17-2006, 07:22 PM
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"But in this case there was no criticism of him UNTIL he died and was in the headlines. They are capitalizing on his death and it's rather shameful."



My viewpoint exactly. Peta is a good organization that sometimes does some distastful marketing.
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#17 Old 09-17-2006, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeezycreezy View Post

Circuses are despicable, inexcusable, and shameful.



And, yes, that includes cirque du soleil.



I have never watched Cirque du Soleil, but as far as know they are animal free. So is your dispute with them that they exploit people?
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#18 Old 09-18-2006, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegmedic View Post

I have never watched Cirque du Soleil, but as far as know they are animal free. So is your dispute with them that they exploit people?



To treat French Canadians as objects for our amusement is to treat them without the respect they deserve. That is my issue with them.



Unless it was just a really weak throwaway joke at the expense of a really weird spectacle.



Cheers!

TJ
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#19 Old 09-18-2006, 08:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeezycreezy View Post

To treat French Canadians as objects for our amusement is to treat them without the respect they deserve. That is my issue with them.



If French Canadians weren't meant to be objects for our amusement, how do you explain hockey?



Personally, I believe Jean Beliveau was put on this earth specifically for my amusement.



I'm the American Don Cherry.
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#20 Old 09-18-2006, 09:23 AM
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You know, Steve may not have been perfect, but if the world was full of Steve Irwins, it would be a better world. I think PETA is off-base; they should concentrate on those who truly are abuse to animals.
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#21 Old 09-19-2006, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epski View Post

I gave a toned-down version of PETA's response, somewhere on some forum, but I didn't issue a press release that borders on offensive, and is frankly making animal rights people look like nuts (as PETA often does). It's in bad taste, despite the fact that they have a point, as over the top as they make it.



Oh, and I despise the use of exotic animals in circuses. You'd think we'd have come a ways in the last 150 or more years.





Epski, I appreciate your ability to understand the perception of others and the dangers of extremists statements. Very well said, sir.
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#22 Old 09-20-2006, 01:26 PM
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I think Cirque du Soleil should be displayed in cages.
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#23 Old 09-20-2006, 05:54 PM
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Yet again, PETA shows what it is willing to do in order to gain attention.
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#24 Old 09-20-2006, 05:56 PM
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I don't care for PETA.

They get good results sometimes, which is cool, but they are deliberately offensive. I don't like deliberately offensive. I acted like that when I was 18 and I outgrew it.....
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#25 Old 09-20-2006, 08:18 PM
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Any last bit of respect I had for PETA is gone now. Of all people they could be going after, why someone who's dead, who spent his whole life trying to help the animals and died trying to educate people about them? It's no wonder most people dislike PETA so much.
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#26 Old 09-20-2006, 08:26 PM
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And I didn't care for Steve's manhandling of reptiles for show, but I believe his heart was in the right place. His education and conservation efforts are to be commended. I'm sad that he's gone, even though he was mildly annoying to listen to at times. He seemed like a great husband and father, as well. I can only imagine how his wife must feel.
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#27 Old 09-20-2006, 09:27 PM
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i dont know enough and havent seen enough about steve irwin to say..but i believe his heart was in the right place and he really believed in what he was doing helping animals and the enviorment.



as for zoos and circuses...imo they are both awful and hurt animals.
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#28 Old 09-20-2006, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenni-anti-fur View Post

as for zoos and circuses...imo they are both awful and hurt animals.



What about the zoo Steve's family runs? I don't think all zoos are terrible, as long as the animals have plenty of room to run and aren't there just for entertainment.



Did anyone watch the memorial on tv? When they brought out the elephants, I was bawling. They looked like they knew he was gone. So sad, but the interaction between one of the elephants and Bindi was sweet. That girl's amazing.
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#29 Old 09-20-2006, 10:33 PM
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i cant make a comment about the zoos that his family runs...i really dont know that much about him or his zoos..i have never seen his show and before he died i didnt know much about him or his family honestly...i can only comment on the zoos and circus that i have seen and i didnt like what i saw it wasnt pretty.
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#30 Old 09-21-2006, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cass View Post

What about the zoo Steve's family runs? I don't think all zoos are terrible, as long as the animals have plenty of room to run and aren't there just for entertainment.



Did anyone watch the memorial on tv? When they brought out the elephants, I was bawling. They looked like they knew he was gone. So sad, but the interaction between one of the elephants and Bindi was sweet. That girl's amazing.



I tend to agree. For years, I have been totally against zoos, but after reading up on Steves, it sounds like a very nice place, and one I would actually like to visit if I ever get to Austrailia. And yes, I watched the memorial. That sweet little girl is just amazing. Simply amazing.



Peace,Vivian
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