View on Killing Animal Poll - VeggieBoards
View Poll Results: What are your views on killing animals?
OK to kill animals as long as they are treated humanely before slaughtering 0 0%
OK to eat animals (including human's closet cousins, the Great Apes) if you are poor & starving 0 0%
OK to kill animals that are not considered "sensient beings" (having feelings) 0 0%
OK to kill animals only in self-defense 0 0%
It is NEVER OK to kill an animal for any reason. 0 0%
OK to kill animals only if they are seriously ill or injured 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

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#1 Old 09-07-2006, 07:52 AM
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I was quite surprised at the reaction I got when I made a post entitled "Eating apes" last week. Afterall, I posted it here on the Animal Rights forum, not on the general Vegetarian forum. Anyway, I decided to post this poll to find out just what some vegetarians and vegans veiws were on the subject of killing animals. I will state right now that my husband views killing the great apes for any reason akin to cannibalsm and I am leaning towards that view myself, although his views are based mainly upon evolution and mine are based mostly on my views on the environment and sustainability. Please share your views on humans killing both wild and domesticated animals.



ps: Please post a message stating the reasons for your answer if you like. Thanks.



OH--I forgot to say you this is a multiple choice poll so you can vote for more than one as long as they don't contradict each other.
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#2 Old 09-07-2006, 08:01 AM
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i did not know this was a public poll.

I did vote that it's never okay however there was really no category for if the animal was suffering or anything like that. soooooo there you go.
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#3 Old 09-07-2006, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ElliottsMom View Post

i did not know this was a public poll.

I did vote that it's never okay however there was really no category for if the animal was suffering or anything like that. soooooo there you go.



Thanks for drawing my attention to that omission. I wish I had included it in my poll, but I don't think I can change the poll questions. Maybe others will just add that to their posts. Also I didn't see the option of making the poll private, Sorry. But if most people most a corresponding message anyway it won't make any difference if it is public or private. Thanks for participating!
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#4 Old 09-07-2006, 08:08 AM
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Woohoo! Elliotsmom is in the lead! You go girl!







I'm abstaining.



I'd like to say it's never okay to kill an animal.



But that's me.



I live in a country where food is in abundance and I have the means to acquire it.



Also, to the best of my knowledge, I am not currently being attacked by a bear.



Cheers!

TJ



PS. Sentient.
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#5 Old 09-07-2006, 08:16 AM
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I didn't vote for any of those options because none of them seem to correctly state my views. I can conceive of circumstances in which I would not find the killing of animals morally objectionable. It would essentially require that the animals be raised humanely and slaughtered humanely, but also and perhaps most importantly that they be treated with a certain amount of respect and appreciation for their individual selves-- that they be allowed some freedom to be themselves and not be mass commoditized. I have no problem with the subsistence farmer who keeps a few goats to browse her acreage and slaughters one occasionally to keep their numbers under control, or with the Indian tribe who runs several thousand head of buffalo on nearly 20,000 acres and engages in a traditional buffalo hunt a few times a year. But very few of today's livestock animals are lucky enough to have such blessed lives.
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#6 Old 09-07-2006, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Tesseract View Post

But very few of today's livestock animals are lucky enough to have such blessed lives.



How is being in danger of being hunted a blessing?
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#7 Old 09-07-2006, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Tesseract View Post

I didn't vote for any of those options because none of them seem to correctly state my views. I can conceive of circumstances in which I would not find the killing of animals morally objectionable. It would essentially require that the animals be raised humanely and slaughtered humanely, but also and perhaps most importantly that they be treated with a certain amount of respect and appreciation for their individual selves-- that they be allowed some freedom to be themselves and not be mass commoditized. I have no problem with the subsistence farmer who keeps a few goats to browse her acreage and slaughters one occasionally to keep their numbers under control, or with the Indian tribe who runs several thousand head of buffalo on nearly 20,000 acres and engages in a traditional buffalo hunt a few times a year. But very few of today's livestock animals are lucky enough to have such blessed lives.



That's a good answer. Maybe we should start another poll about sustainability. For instance, the bushmeat trade in Africa seems to have turned into a really big business since the advent of clearing the forests and building roads into remote areas in order to plant agricultural crops (mainly maize). Seems to be a double-edged sword, doesn't it?
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#8 Old 09-07-2006, 08:26 AM
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ha ha, I just realized I haven't done the poll myself. It's only fair that I also participate.
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#9 Old 09-07-2006, 08:32 AM
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Wild animals everywhere are in danger of being hunted every day of their lives. Is their freedom not a blessing? For the buffalo in question, it's a matter of their very existence. The Indian tribe that keeps them and gives them a place to live in the way they have always lived gives more to the herd than it takes. If they didn't have that place, they would have already been forced out of existence by the white man and his cattle.
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#10 Old 09-07-2006, 08:36 AM
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I have no problem with the subsistence farmer who keeps a few goats to browse her acreage and slaughters one occasionally to keep their numbers under control,



Those goats aren't free. In the wild, they would sustain their own natural population level.
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#11 Old 09-07-2006, 08:39 AM
 
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I would never ever kill another animal, unless my life or the life of somene I love was threatened. I believe that other animals have the same right that I have to not have their lives taken from them. I do not kill bugs. Ran over a squirrel about a week and a half ago (it literally ran out at the very last second) and was totally inconsolable.
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#12 Old 09-07-2006, 08:46 AM
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Those goats aren't free. In the wild, they would sustain their own natural population level.

I didn't say they were. And I didn't comment on whether that's the only, or even the ideal, way to maintain the population of goats. I said I don't have a moral objection to that scenario.
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#13 Old 09-07-2006, 08:47 AM
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I didn't say they were. And I didn't comment on whether that's the only, or even the ideal, way to maintain the population of goats. I said I don't have a moral objection to that scenario.



Okay.. but that's why I said, "How is being in danger of being hunted a blessing?"



I'm sorry if I'm confusing you.
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#14 Old 09-07-2006, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by compassionate1 View Post

I would never ever kill another animal, unless my life or the life of somene I love was threatened. I believe that other animals have the same right that I have to not have their lives taken from them. I do not kill bugs. Ran over a squirrel about a week and a half ago (it literally ran out at the very last second) and was totally inconsolable.



That's the question though, isn't it squirrel killer?



Personally if it was between me and a bear I would have no moral qualms about how badly that bear would get round-house kicked to the head followed by a flurry of Mui Thai elbows to the head until I won the fightno way would I let that fight go to a judge's decision.



If it was between me and a Rotweiller, same thing. One less dog barking in my next-door neighbor's backyard while I am trying to sleep I say.



But without provocation or reason I am a peaceable man who says live and let live.



But without having known the kind of poverty some people experience, well, needs must when the devil drives and all that. Who am I do sit where I am and judge others for trying to survive?



No animal need ever be hunted by humans, although having said that I probably have more respect for someone who can kill their own food over the cowards who buy theirs shink-wrapped on Styrofoam slabs.



But I'm still mightily opposed to it and think hunters suck. I'm just saying.



I ran over a chipmunk while some of my more jerky friends were in the car six or seven years ago and they STILL bring it up. Like I don't feel bad enough without the constant reminders. Jerks.



Cheers!

TJ
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#15 Old 09-07-2006, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by veggiejanie View Post

Okay.. but that's why I said, "How is being in danger of being hunted a blessing?"

Maybe instead of providing an example of how danger of being hunted can be a blessing (e.g., wild animals have freedom, but it comes with the price of danger) I should ask you, what are some of the many ways a life can be a blessed while still being dangerous?
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#16 Old 09-07-2006, 09:03 AM
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Well I voted for "only in self defense" but that would be as a last resort same as I would with a human. Also as someone has pointed out there wasn't one for if the animal is suffering and cannot be helped any other way, because I would also agree it is alright under that circumstance.

"Through the centuries, we have projected onto the wolf the qualities we most despise and fear in ourselves." ~ Barry Lopez.
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#17 Old 09-07-2006, 09:04 AM
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I pretty much feel that it's never ok to kill animals, but I guess I have to leave open the self-defence thing. Since I am a-ok with bears, deer etc. attacking and killing hunters in self-defence, I suppose it would only be consistent to leave that option open for humans. But ONLY if their life is threatened, through an unprovoked attack.
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#18 Old 09-07-2006, 09:06 AM
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oh yeah, compassionate euthanasia too I suppose, where it is in the animal's best interest to not continue living (unbearable pain).
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#19 Old 09-07-2006, 09:08 AM
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I have had what I consider to be a pretty good life.



No real complaints.



I eat well.



I'm in good health.



People treat me well most of the time.



But I don't think I would consider it in any way acceptable if an alien species came along and killed me humanely just to scarf me down like a jeezyburger.



To exist in any way for the sole purpose of one day being eaten...that would totally suck in my opinion.



I'll bet a lot of goats would feel the same way.



Cheers!

TJ
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#20 Old 09-07-2006, 09:12 AM
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I voted to self defence thingy, cause I wont mind killing a human if he was try to kill me
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#21 Old 09-07-2006, 09:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jeezycreezy View Post

followed by a flurry of Mui Thai elbows to the head



Somehow I don't think giving the bear a Mai Tai will help.



Is Mai Tai elbow anything like tennis elbow? Well, it's definitely more fun developing mai tai elbow than tennis elbow.....



[/bad puns]



As usual, we are sympatico on this subject.



Except for the roundhouse kick part. That would just result in a groin pull (and not the good kind).
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#22 Old 09-07-2006, 09:24 AM
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Except for the roundhouse kick part. That would just result in a groin pull (and not the good kind).



I'm incredibly limber where bears are concerned.



And I made a type in a thread where I corrected one. F**king karma man. It's spelled Muay Thai.



Cheers!

TJ
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#23 Old 09-07-2006, 09:32 AM
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Those goats aren't free. In the wild, they would sustain their own natural population level.



Hmmm, I think that would depend upon where they live, which brings up a whole 'nuther subject and that is hunting. I could never be a hunter or be married to a hunter even when I DID eat meat, but in every state I have lived I have heard that hunting is allowed not just for the sport of it but to keep the deer population down so that the deer don't overpopulate and slowly starve to death. I am not at all sure about the "truth" in that, but it seems plausible. The same could be said of many animals, esp. in areas where their range has been severely limited by human population growth and enfringement upon animal habitats. Here's the problem. Many animals, in countries where overdevelopment has occured have not only lost many of their natural enemies, but they have also lost habitat. Therefore their populations exceed sustainability level of their habitats. When that happens, they begain to starve. Sometimes that will level out by not as many births in ensuing years, but not always. I have seen some state game agencies allow hunters in at times of the year when it was not hunting season, as well as game agents themselves shooting deer in order to control deer population. I would imagine the same would happen to any other animal that is allowed to live free at least here in the USA and also in Europe. Goats have been introduced into areas (by the Spanish and English)where they were not living before. Whether they would have the means to survive if let loose is questionable. I remember when I lived in Hawaii that wild goats (remnants of a few goats given as gifts to the Hawaiians by Capt Cook) took over an entire island and decimated it of all living vegetation. It was good for nothing, so the Navy started using it for bombing practice. Same thing has happened with wild boars.
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#24 Old 09-07-2006, 09:36 AM
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To exist in any way for the sole purpose of one day being eaten...that would totally suck in my opinion.

Yeah, being commoditized like that and reduced to the value of your body parts would suck. That's why I'm against it.
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#25 Old 09-07-2006, 09:44 AM
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Animals that are hunted by humans managed to work their s**t out just fine for thousands of years before the shotgun was ever invented.



Starvation and disease are beneficial to a species. It ensures that the strong survive and pass on the good genes. Sucks for the weak the lame and the old. But that's nature.



The folly, I would think, is that most hunters go for the bigger, healthier animals. Which is counter-productive from an evolutionary standpoint.



I think it's sophistry to justify brutality.



But I am supremely unqualified to comment on this subject in any sort of educated fashion. Those who follow my posts will see this seldom stops me.



Cheers!

TJ
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#26 Old 09-07-2006, 09:46 AM
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Yeah, being commoditized like that and reduced to the value of your body parts would suck. That's why I'm against it.



I guess it all depends on the body part you're against. :wink: :wink: :nudge: :nudge:



Cheers!

TJ
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#27 Old 09-07-2006, 09:50 AM
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I didn't vote for any of those options because none of them seem to correctly state my views. I can conceive of circumstances in which I would not find the killing of animals morally objectionable. It would essentially require that the animals be raised humanely and slaughtered humanely, but also and perhaps most importantly that they be treated with a certain amount of respect and appreciation for their individual selves-- that they be allowed some freedom to be themselves and not be mass commoditized. I have no problem with the subsistence farmer who keeps a few goats to browse her acreage and slaughters one occasionally to keep their numbers under control, or with the Indian tribe who runs several thousand head of buffalo on nearly 20,000 acres and engages in a traditional buffalo hunt a few times a year. But very few of today's livestock animals are lucky enough to have such blessed lives.



Where is that Native American ranch or reservation? I have not heard of of it. That is interesting. Do you have an internet link that tells about it? I know that many Native Americans are not allowed to do that and that the majority of bison in the US are raised on ranches and many are slaughtered for commerical sales.
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#28 Old 09-07-2006, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jeezycreezy View Post

Animals that are hunted by humans managed to work their s**t out just fine for thousands of years before the shotgun was ever invented.



Starvation and disease are beneficial to a species. It ensures that the strong survive and pass on the good genes. Sucks for the weak the lame and the old. But that's nature.



The folly, I would think, is that most hunters go for the bigger, healthier animals. Which is counter-productive from an evolutionary standpoint.



I think it's sophistry to justify brutality.



But I am supremely unqualified to comment on this subject in any sort of educated fashion. Those who follow my posts will see this seldom stops me.



Cheers!

TJ



There are some hunters that would kill anything they could if they were allowed. For instance, although it is against the law to kill deer from a moving vehicle in most states, some people still try to get away with it. Some people kill does out of season. Sure they all want a multi-point buck, but if they can't get it, they will kill whatever comes into their path. Just think DICK CHENEY! (sorry about that, folks)
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#29 Old 09-07-2006, 09:54 AM
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The folly, I would think, is that most hunters go for the bigger, healthier animals. Which is counter-productive from an evolutionary standpoint.

I don't think there's any question that hunters who claim to be doing Mother Nature's work when they go out and bag that healthy, robust 10-point buck are just engaging in complete BS. Removing males from a polygynous population doesn't do squat for population control.
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#30 Old 09-07-2006, 09:58 AM
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Where is that Native American ranch or reservation? I have not heard of of it. That is interesting. Do you have an internet link that tells about it? I know that many Native Americans are not allowed to do that and that the majority of bison in the US are raised on ranches and many are slaughtered for commerical sales.

I read about it in an excellent book called A Chorus of Buffalo by Ruth Rudner. I can't remember which tribe it is or what state they're located in, but I do recall that they also do tours of the reservation and drive people out to see the buffalo herd. They're a major force in buffalo conservation. I highly recommend the book.



PS: I re-read the description of the book and it sounds like it's the Sioux in Montana, and they only have a few hundred buffalo. But I thought I remembered reading in the book that they had been able to dramatically increase both their acreage and the total number of buffalo.
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