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#1 Old 08-10-2006, 06:58 AM
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I am a new vegetarian (3 weeks) working on becoming a vegan. I have heard a lot of negative things about PETA (all from meat-eaters), but wondered what people in the veg*n community thought about this group. Do they really threaten people's lives as I have been told? Do they break the law?

What is your opinion about PETA?
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#2 Old 08-10-2006, 07:03 AM
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i think they're good people, and their hearts are in the right places, but i'm not in favour of the violent methods they use.

if they stopped supporting terrorism, i would definately support them more.
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#3 Old 08-10-2006, 07:10 AM
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Exactly! The extremists to look out for are the ones with ALF, they support terrorism from what I've heard. Some heads of PETA do support that group(e.g. Ingrid Newkirk), but the individuals within the group are still individuals who may not feel this way. The organization as a whole does not support terrorist acts directly, as far as I know.



I used to love PETA, but now I like them less. Since I've been vegan for months now, I've gotten more "you don't support PETA, do you?" comments. I think that their actions get the message out, but only to those who have already heard it. They make the word "vegan" associated with extremists more often then not. PETA protests can be a little...out there. Even though I am AR as opposed to AW, and agree with all of PETA's basic beliefs, I do not always like what actions they choose to send messages to the public. They are usually too abbrasive or too ridiculous.
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#4 Old 08-10-2006, 07:32 AM
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The extremists to look out for are the ones with ALF, they support terrorism from what I've heard.



that's definatly true. in my eyes the ALF are a terrorist organisation. but, saying that, i don't condemn what they do, because they actively help the lives of animals.
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#5 Old 08-10-2006, 07:41 AM
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I know what ALF is, but I did not know their connection to PETA. Is is a sub-group of PETA or does PETA simply help fund them? I understand that ALF feels it is "at war" against animal cruelty and thus uses illegal tactics. From what I have heard a lot of what they do is attributed to PETA. Is PETA just using ALF to do its "dirty work" while it tries to maintain its good name or what?
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#6 Old 08-10-2006, 07:48 AM
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as far as i know, i think they are probably two seperate groups. the only link between them that i know about is that PETA have finantially supported the ALF.
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#7 Old 08-10-2006, 07:58 AM
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Peta has only financially supported individual A.L.F activists who got caught;its impossible to financially support the "ALF" because its not an organization or a group but a movement of anonymous individuals; either working together or alone.



To be quite honest PETA will soon become a target for ALF activists,as PETA has endorsed Mcdonalds,has promoted and funded a women who designs slaughterhouses and has killed stray cats and dogs and others.



Check out ABOLITIONIST ONLINE:A VOICE FOR ANIMAL RIGHTS(Its the best AR site i've come across)



There's some articles on PETA there:



http://www.abolitionist-online.com/
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#8 Old 08-10-2006, 08:20 AM
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Here is an analogy -



If you dip your ladle into a pot of soup and the soup tastes sour, will you continue to pick through the soup to find some vegetables that have not yet gone bad, or will you dump the whole pot? Sure - PeTA does some good things too, but those good things are merely the vegetables that have not spoiled yet. Dump the pot.





Yes, PeTA turned a lot of people veg. No argument on that. However, they are encouraging people to continue eating animal products, and that is inexcusable. The whole "boycott KFC" thing is a joke. Boycott KFC until they make their cages a little bigger? If KFC complies, PeTA will back away from the boycott and when they do this they send the message that it is OK to start eating dead chickens again.



Their push toward welfarism is the exact opposite of what we should be teaching people. There is a lot of money in welfarism though, and that's why you see PeTA leaning that way more and more each year.



PeTA had nothing to do with me going veg. Nothing at all. If I can do it without PeTA's help, others can too.



The PeTA that I know encourages fur wearing and dairy eating (they knew the buns at Burger King contained natural dairy flavor, yet they promoted their veggie burger anyway). They also support confining chickens in cages before they are killed by the slaughter industry. (KFC Campaign)



I don't care for them them because they have made animal rights the laughing stock of social movements and they show no signs of letting up in any of those areas.



If it weren't for PeTA and other welfarist groups like them, my message of veganism and animal *rights* would indeed be the norm and I suspect more progress would have been made by now.



PeTA is seen by the general public as the mouthpiece for the entire movement and because of this it is VERY important that we criticize them and point out whenever we can that they do not represent the animal rights point of view. We don't want the public believing that it is proper to kill animals for matters of convenience or to exploit them so we can eat them. Every time I am asked my opinion of PeTA I freely give it.



Didn't Ingrid hold a press conference defending those two monsters who killed all those dogs and cats in North Carolina? I also have a signed letter from Ingrid where she defends killing the rabbits and roosters on her Aspin Hill "sanctuary." Yes, those actions have been intentional.



You can start at the top with Ingrid. She's anti-feral cat, anti-pit bull and possibly anti-other animals as well.



they do not spread the message of animal rights. Killing feral cats is not an animal rights position. Increasing the size of cages that animals are tortured in is not an animal rights issue. Promoting Benihana Steakhouse on their website is not an animal rights position. Calling for bans on pit bulls is not an animal rights position. Praising someone who designs a gas chamber for mice is not an animal rights position. Need I go on? PeTA is not an animal rights group. It never has been and unless they reform the entire organization, it never will be



Why do they need to go out of their way to kill animals at all? Why is all this killing so acceptable to you and to others? Why don't you ask the feral cats and pit bulls what they think of PeTA. If they could tell you in a language you could understand, they would say that they couldn't care less how many good things the group has done.



PeTA can choose to never do that again, but they won't. They are a pro-killing organization. While it is true that we cannot save them all, we don't have to kill any of them.

We have to fight together against those who are hurting the animals. PeTA is one of those organizations that hurts the animals.



PeTA is not the only organization that does this, of course. The H$U$-led "Canadian seafood boycott" is perhaps even worse, because it implies the following:



1 - it's OK to think of fish and other animals as "sea food"

2 - eating sea animals who were caught in the waters off the shores of countries other than Canada is acceptable

3 - if the Canadian government halts the seal slaughter it will be fine to resume eating "Canadian" sea animals.





These are the kinds of things that devastate the animal rights movement. We have a harder battle to fight because we now have to educate the public why these campaigns should not be supported and why all animals should be respected.



It's our obligation to fight animal abuse and exploitation wherever it occurs and from wherever it originates.



Peace

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#9 Old 08-10-2006, 08:51 AM
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Girlie - I love the analogy and you made many good points. One of them was that PETA is the mouthpiece for the AR movement, whether we like it or not. That's exactly why we have to do the best we can to salvage the yummy veggies in the sour soup.



Your thoughts on PETA's tactics are very miguided in some ways. What I think makes veg*ns look bad are their crazy protests...and I mean the CRAZY protests. Like running naked through a college campus, or handing out graphic pamhlets to children. This is what gives us a bad name!



PeTA does have some sense. Their KFC campaign is great. The fact of the matter is, Girlie, that screaming from street corners to stop eating KFC food won't accomplish anything. Do you honestly think that if PETA asked KFC to please stop killing chickens they would listen? Do you think that if PETA wrote enough letters, held enough conferences, handed out enough pamplets, KFC would become a vegan fast food chain?



Of course PETA does not condone the practices of raising chickens for food - but the best that can be done for AW is to make a reasonable request that KFC work towards better caring for the chickens they will turn into cheap food. Demanding that a company willingly shut down its business is ridiculous.



PETA does some crazy things and can project a negative image. I think our image would definately improve without it. But there's nothing we can do except express how we as individuals feel about the organization.





In the meantime, Girlie, you should try to appreciate the major strides that PETA has taken to further AW and AR. They've made videos, ads, books, pamphlets, and campaigns that actually DO work to educate and persuade many people. They've gotten major supermarket chains to end the selling of live lobsters, fast food corporations to purchase and produce meat in a more *humane* way, ended the selling of furs in many clothing stores, and many other things. I say that for now we should be grateful for what PETA has done well, and work towards making PETA more in our image.
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#10 Old 08-10-2006, 09:53 AM
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I have noticed PETA's shift toward animal welfare rather than trying to get a ban on killing all animals. However I thought it was because they realize they will never be able to turn everyone into a vegetarian and stop animal slaughter forever. In other words they pick their fights. IF animals will always be used for food by some people (probably the majority), then it is better for them to live the best lives possible while they ARE alive and then have a swift death. I know that sounds awful anyway, but everything on earth dies eventually and I would like to at least live a pleasant life before I die. Of course the big difference is that people are not bred to feed other species. I have a blog and what I said on it is that one reason I believe in vegetarianism is because I believe in evolution. Humans were of course not always the dominate species and some day because of evolutionary changes humans may lose their place at the top of the food chain. I certainly wouldn't want to be bred for food consumption for another species if that happens.
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#11 Old 08-10-2006, 10:00 AM
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What if humans are bred to be fed to another species. Maybe worms exercise a control over us that is beyond human conception!



Maybe places like Tokyo are instances of intensive farming while rural towns are where we are bred free range.



Perhaps we are unable to see that we are being raised for food because our tiny brains do not understand that the Earth is our enclosure. It would make sense why the Earth is so filthy, and why we can't seem to find the end to the universe!
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#12 Old 08-10-2006, 10:23 AM
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What other groups are better alternatives to PETA?? I just like being up to date on whats going on and what's being done which is why I visit PETA, but if there is another group that is similar I would definitely choose them over PETA
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#13 Old 08-10-2006, 11:15 AM
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What if humans are bred to be fed to another species. Maybe worms exercise a control over us that is beyond human conception!



Maybe places like Tokyo are instances of intensive farming while rural towns are where we are bred free range.



Perhaps we are unable to see that we are being raised for food because our tiny brains do not understand that the Earth is our enclosure. It would make sense why the Earth is so filthy, and why we can't seem to find the end to the universe!



Worms are parasites, they don't exactly eat us. They suck our blood. Heh heh heh. I read in a book just last night that if you eat certain veggies like garlic and onions (and many other things from the plant world), worms leave your body. Just another reason to eat our veggies.
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#14 Old 08-10-2006, 11:20 AM
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What other groups are better alternatives to PETA?? I just like being up to date on whats going on and what's being done which is why I visit PETA, but if there is another group that is similar I would definitely choose them over PETA



The one I am most familiar with is called Mercy for Animals. It is based here in Ohio where I live, but also has a branch office in Chicago. There is also a neat group called Farm Sancturary in western New York State that finds foster homes for farm animals.



Here are their web addys:



http://www.mercyforanimals.org/



http://www.farmsanctuary.org/visit/N..._hoedown06.htm
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#15 Old 08-10-2006, 11:23 AM
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A couple of things I read on an omni website were that PETA threatened to kill the children of rock "star" Ted Nugent because they hunted pheasant and another thing was that PETA euthanized animals themselves. I just have a hard time believeing those things.
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#16 Old 08-10-2006, 08:41 PM
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What other groups are better alternatives to PETA?? I just like being up to date on whats going on and what's being done which is why I visit PETA, but if there is another group that is similar I would definitely choose them over PETA

Compassion Over Killing is probably the closest to PETA without any of the controversial stuff or misogynist attitudes. www.cok.net



Of course the controversial stuff and sexist ads are what make PETA popular. Sex sells, and controversy makes headlines.
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#17 Old 08-10-2006, 08:44 PM
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A couple of things I read on an omni website were that PETA threatened to kill the children of rock "star" Ted Nugent because they hunted pheasant and another thing was that PETA euthanized animals themselves. I just have a hard time believeing those things.

I have not heard of the Ted Nuggent thing. I find that hard to believe also. I'll have to look for more info.



But definetely they euthanize animals. Obviously a lot of the animals they rescue are in horrible pain and euthanisia is the only humane option. But they also do euthanize some adoptable animals as well which I disagree with.





ETA: After googling the Nugent thing here's what I found: "In Penn & Teller's Bull****! episode about PETA, Nugent claims, "We've got reports and files with law enforcement across America where animal rights extremists are on record threatening to kill my children on the way to school because we eat pheasant"." .... So, although that comment was aired on an show about PETA he was not talking about PETA, he was talking about some individual animal rights extremists (and even that's speculation). There are obviously a lot of whackjobs that label themselves as animal rights advocates, but there extremist views and tactics are not held by the majority of animal rights advocates nor by PETA.
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#18 Old 08-10-2006, 09:39 PM
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Why do you need to find an alternate group besides PETA? Point - why do you need to find a group at all?



I think it's easier just to explain your personal beliefs, or let people learn more about you as relationships progress.



If anything, join a grassroots effort. Less graphic pictures, less naked crazies, more common sense and human compassion. That way you can detach yourself from all of those yucky stereotypes you'd get saying you approve of PETA. "I support veganism! Not PETA!"



It was hard to tell my cousin that I support PETA's basic principles, not the actions of the organization. It involves a good deal of explaination. Just skip the hard stuff and don't tell critical omnis that you support one big organization or another.
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#19 Old 08-12-2006, 07:33 AM
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wow gnumoe ita with what u say about peta. i will always support PETA. As far as the euthanasia issue, i agree w/ u kickpell most animals are prolly "put down" b/c they are in pain. however i agree with euthanaisa of healthy animals. i don't like it and i certainly couldn't do it but what other option do we have? I worked in a no kill shelter. i saw dogs sitting in cages for years. they go nuts and when they were adopted were brought right back b/c they didn't know how to live in a house anymore. watch that hbo special shelter dogs. it is really impossible to find homes for all the unwanted animals in the world. that is why i promote spaying.
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#20 Old 08-12-2006, 07:53 AM
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wow gnumoe ita with what u say about peta. i will always support PETA. As far as the euthanasia issue, i agree w/ u kickpell most animals are prolly "put down" b/c they are in pain. however i agree with euthanaisa of healthy animals. i don't like it and i certainly couldn't do it but what other option do we have? I worked in a no kill shelter. i saw dogs sitting in cages for years. they go nuts and when they were adopted were brought right back b/c they didn't know how to live in a house anymore. watch that hbo special shelter dogs. it is really impossible to find homes for all the unwanted animals in the world. that is why i promote spaying.

Kennel craze is a real problem that needs to be addressed. But euthanasia isn't the answer. Check out the No More Homeless Pets campaign run by Best Friends. These are people offering real solutions to the overpopulation problem. http://www.bestfriends.org/nomorehomelesspets/ You're correct that the first and more important step is widespread spay and neutering!
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#21 Old 08-12-2006, 07:54 AM
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wow gnumoe ita with what u say about peta. i will always support PETA. As far as the euthanasia issue, i agree w/ u kickpell most animals are prolly "put down" b/c they are in pain. however i agree with euthanaisa of healthy animals. i don't like it and i certainly couldn't do it but what other option do we have? I worked in a no kill shelter. i saw dogs sitting in cages for years. they go nuts and when they were adopted were brought right back b/c they didn't know how to live in a house anymore. watch that hbo special shelter dogs. it is really impossible to find homes for all the unwanted animals in the world. that is why i promote spaying.

Kennel craze is a real problem that needs to be addressed. But euthanasia isn't the answer. In most cases kennel craze can be avoided by simply taking the dog out for walks on a regular basis, and bringing them home for an overnight stay every once in a while. Check out the No More Homeless Pets campaign run by Best Friends. http://www.bestfriends.org/nomorehomelesspets/ These are people offering real solutions to the overpopulation problem. You're correct that the first and more important step is widespread spay and neutering!
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#22 Old 08-12-2006, 08:10 AM
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thanks 4 the link i'll check it out.
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#23 Old 08-12-2006, 02:05 PM
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wow gnumoe ita with what u say about peta. i will always support PETA. As far as the euthanasia issue, i agree w/ u kickpell most animals are prolly "put down" b/c they are in pain. however i agree with euthanaisa of healthy animals. i don't like it and i certainly couldn't do it but what other option do we have? I worked in a no kill shelter. i saw dogs sitting in cages for years. they go nuts and when they were adopted were brought right back b/c they didn't know how to live in a house anymore. watch that hbo special shelter dogs. it is really impossible to find homes for all the unwanted animals in the world. that is why i promote spaying.



Do I need an Orphan Annie decoder ring for this?





I got some of it. No-kill shelters are sad they promote an ideal so far beyond reason that it actually winds up hurting animals instead of helping. I work in a low-kill. Animals are only euthanized if they are old and surgery would be useless, or they are completely unadoptable. I've never seen a case of kennel craze before, but all of our animals are well-stimulated. Every one gets played with by volunteers every day.
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#24 Old 08-16-2006, 02:04 AM
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Gotta say I love Peta. I know they are very "out there" and use lots tactics to get ppl to listen to them. Which is fine with me because so many ppl do not pay attention to what is being done to animals and Peta puts it out in front of you, whether you like the way they do it or not. I think in the end, if you are AR then what Peta is doing is very acceptable because they are shining a light on things that otherwise most ppl would not see. But I do support and donate to many different causes and organizations, not just Peta. I think they all do good work.
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#25 Old 08-16-2006, 07:44 AM
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Well, they definately get the message out there, but they also make normal vegans like ourselves look like extremists.



The problem is that PETA winds up getting all of the attention, when the animal rights issue they're pushing should be the focus.



Most of their big actions and protests I won't support for the above reasons. I do approve of many things they do - their books, videos, and pamphlets/leaflets/stickers are good to promote veganism.



PETA is actually helping out with a local issue here in VT at the moment. I like that they get involved with things like that - let's just see where they go with that.
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#26 Old 08-16-2006, 09:13 AM
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One of the neatest things PETA has been involved with lately is the rescue of pets that were left behind during Hurricance Katrina and also pets left behind during the Israeli-Lebanon (Hezzbola) war. No matter which side of the war you sympathize with or NOT (I hate war) you have to admit the animals are NOT to blame. I may be wrong, but I don't think I ever heard of an animal starting a war. LOL.
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#27 Old 08-17-2006, 06:38 AM
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Actually, many different species are familiar with "warfare" or battles. Other primates engage in organized warfare for territory. Rams will fight to win a mate.
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#28 Old 08-17-2006, 07:26 AM
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Actually, many different species are familiar with "warfare" or battles. Other primates engage in organized warfare for territory. Rams will fight to win a mate.





I KNEW someone would say something like that. Animals also eat other animals. The fact is that humans have such a greater reasoning capacity than other species (I didn't say thinking, I said reasoning) that we can make more choices than those species with more limited reasoning capacity. Just as we can choose to not eat meat even though it is widely available to us, so we can choose to to resolve conflicts with other humans through peaceful means. Also most animals act on instinct. Humans have to PLAN wars. I am not a stereotypical pacifist. My husband was in the Air Force for 20 years and I have a son who is now in the navy. I realize that war is sometimes unavoidable, but probably not as much as most people think. But as I said, I HATE WAR!
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#29 Old 08-18-2006, 09:26 AM
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If you're interested in critiques of PETA from pro animal people, read:



- Prof Francione, Rain Without Thunder (who you can also hear arguing that you 'might as well flush money down the toilet' than donate to PETA, at animalvoices.ca)



- Carol Adams: PETA is sexist. It simply supplants objectified pictures of animals with objectified images of women.



- Abolitionist online. Peta kills animals, is essentially welfarist, etc.







As a supporter of direct action (the ALF, etc) - which makes me a terrorist, hah hah! - my relationship to Peta is one of self interest. I often get it to send me free propaganda but, in reality, I regard the organisation as filth. I'm sure it does do some good, but mostly it squanders money on stupid, sexist compaigns that offend a few people in the US and don't do much more. Peta certainly began with the right intentions but I fear the 'iron law of oligarchy' has rendered it a bloated, nothing group - much like, say, the National Anti Viv Soc in the UK which has sat around for the last fifty years doing precisely nothing, nowt but whining. With its support for animal killers (Burger King, eg), its own murder of animals, and so on, Peta is just too compromised. It's a organisation for lazy media hacks who have no clue about animal rights beyond Peta. People seriously concerned with animal lib must look elsewhere.



This claim that Peta supports the ALF is nonsense. If only! Its given very, very small sums once or twice to activists but that is about it.
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#30 Old 08-18-2006, 12:16 PM
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What other groups are better alternatives to PETA?? I just like being up to date on whats going on and what's being done which is why I visit PETA, but if there is another group that is similar I would definitely choose them over PETA



The Humane Society of the United States



Vegan.com
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