Empathy for dairy cows- SUPPORT THREAD - Page 3 - VeggieBoards
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#61 Old 07-04-2006, 05:15 AM
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Severe animal cruelty at dairy farm...



https://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...93#post1296993



How is it justified for the taste of cheese? How do people defend it?



I'm ashamed I ignored it for so long.

Mary
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#62 Old 07-04-2006, 05:37 AM
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Well, my first weekend without dairy/eggs went horribly. I ate a piece of cheese pizza on Sunday I wasn't expecting to have cravings for cheese, but sadly, I did. I talked with my husband about my decision and he's agreed to also give up dairy/eggs! Now I just need to figure out what are the best dairy replacements - soy milk, almond milk? It's confusing. I need some hugs!
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#63 Old 07-04-2006, 05:59 AM
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That's awesome your husband has agreed to drop the dairy and eggs! You can both lean on each other for support.



I really like fortified rice dream on my cereal, or almond milk. Both are fabulous. I don't drink any of it, I was such a huge cow's milk drinker that I decided not to even bother trying to mimic that (I drink water now- less calories!)



Let us know if you need any recipes or meal ideas so that you have more options to choose from. I've started a food blog (it's in my signature) and another friend of mine has one too, www.cuisinecreations.blogspot.com. Use them to get inspired!
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#64 Old 07-04-2006, 06:05 AM
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Thanks for the much needed hug meatless! I've had rice dream "ice cream" bars before but nothing else. I actually hate drinking milk - I mostly used it in cereal and cooking. It's the cheese that I'm missing! Thanks for the info on the food blogs! I need meal ideas - I ate mostly salad all weekend. Booorrring
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#65 Old 07-04-2006, 06:08 AM
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Thanks for the much needed hug meatless! I've had rice dream "ice cream" bars before but nothing else. I actually hate drinking milk - I mostly used it in cereal and cooking. It's the cheese that I'm missing! Thanks for the info on the food blogs! I need meal ideas - I ate mostly salad all weekend. Booorrring





If it's mostly the cheese, then I'd say change your focus to trying out new recipes that have nothing to do with cheese. You'll be so busy trying out new things that cheese won't be as important any more!



the only really good cheese sub I've had is melting nacho flavoured vegan gourmet, and then pouring it onto nachos just before you put them in the oven. I also add a bit of water to it to make it a bit runnier. I load up my nachos with salsa, green onions, tomato, red onions etc. The nachos in my blog don't have the VG on it because I was out. You can also use it melted in burritos and other mexican-style foods.
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#66 Old 07-04-2006, 06:11 AM
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I've had rice dream "ice cream" bars before but nothing else.



I really like Soy Delicious ice cream, in particular the peanut butter chocolate ones. But then, I think peanut butter and chocolate is one of the best combinations ever invented.



Oh, salads don't HAVE to be boring. I made one the other day- spinach with strawberries, red onion, fat-free raspberry dressing and candied pecans (toasted pecans tossed in maple syrup and some brown sugar). It was
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#67 Old 07-04-2006, 06:20 AM
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omg, I looovee chocolate with peanut butter I was just checking out your food blog - wow!! The nachos look delish and I was thinking I could substitute guacamole for the nacho cheese. I love guac. The cheezy broccoli casserole looks soooo yum! Broccoli is one of my most fav veggies.



The other night I made a fabulous stir fry with broccoli and carrots over jasmine rice. The sauce was soy sauce, tons of garlic, red pepper flakes, red wine vinegar and a little sugar.
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#68 Old 07-04-2006, 06:26 AM
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That does sound like a good stir fry.



You can find the recipe for the cheezy broccoli casserole at http://www.randomgirl.com/recipes.html She calls it Broccoli and Rice Casserole.



I make my own "reese" peanut butter cups, and also peanut butter pie.
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#69 Old 07-04-2006, 07:00 AM
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hummus and guac is a good sub for cheese.



nutritional yeast is great for cheesey flavor as well.



Cher... no worries, it takes time.
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#70 Old 07-04-2006, 07:19 AM
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Thanks for the support purrpelle. I haven't tried nutritional yeast before but plan on buying some this weekend when I buy my groceries. Every time I crave some cheese or dairy I think of those poor cows.
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#71 Old 07-04-2006, 07:29 AM
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Thanks for the support purrpelle. I haven't tried nutritional yeast before but plan on buying some this weekend when I buy my groceries. Every time I crave some cheese or dairy I think of those poor cows.



make sure it's not brewers yeast.
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#72 Old 07-04-2006, 09:15 AM
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Cher - my suggestions:

see "the [Ultimate] Uncheese Cookbook" by Joanne Stepaniak

Vegan Gourmet soy cheese is o.k., but not an exact sub

Soy Delicious ice cream is good

Drew's "roasted garlic" salad dressing is good, if you're used to heavier dressings like ranch

Silk soy milk and yogurt are good

Almond Breeze chocolate almond milk is good

Pearl vanilla soy milk is good

Parma! vegan parmesan is good

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

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#73 Old 07-04-2006, 09:36 AM
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Thanks for the tips Irazary!
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#74 Old 07-05-2006, 09:31 AM
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Thanks for starting this thread Meatless - I just saw it now - better late than never...



I was vegetarian for 12 years and I knew in my heart that consuming dairy didn't feel right but I did it anyways because it seemed easier and I justified to myself that by being vegetarian I was doing enough. But it really wasn't enough- when I finally MADE myself face the facts of the industry I was supporting I couldn't do it anymore. I have been vegan ever since and I love it. My conscience is light now and I know my diet is as cruelty free as possible.



Good luck to everyone that is giving up dairy! It is really so much easier than you might think.
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#75 Old 07-06-2006, 05:24 AM
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Does it ever annoy any of you to listen to someone spout off about how much they care about animals while downing a glass of milk??

Sorry but I had to vent a little somewhere. My mom goes on and on about how she loves animals (all animals) and still drinks over a gallon of milk every TWO DAYS. Not to mention the cheese and ice cream and chocolate. WTH? Then, when I mention her hypocrisy she says "Don't tell me, I don't want to know what happens to dairy cows. I'm not ready". IOW, you don't care. Or she'll try to argue SOME dairies are nice to the cows or "that PETA stuff" I'm reading only gives one side (whatever that means).

Why not just admit she doesn't really care enough to give up something she wants and move on? Why keep bringing it up and then getting mad because I point out the truth?

Of course she says she 'gave up meat' until I point out bacon, sausages and lunch meats are meat. And she announced all happily she was buying "free range" eggs until I pointed out what 'free range' probably meant. Then she just got mad at me again.

"Some people can't live without them you know"

I wasn't aware of any condition that causes immediate death if you don't consume chocolate milk, bacon or eggs.

Sorry, couldn't think of anywhere else to vent. I had to get it out. Didn't mean to hijack your thread meatless.

Mary
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#76 Old 07-06-2006, 06:05 AM
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LOL well I'd say part of empathy for dairy cows means feeling frustration and the occasional need to vent when people are NOT empathetic to dairy cows.



I guess I'm lucky, the people I know in real life for the most part don't try to argue or rationalize what they're doing. There are some exceptions, such as a co-worker who insists he loves animals and would never harm them, and got upset when I gently pointed out that by eating them he IS harming them. My husband is minimally lacto vegetarian and consumes some dairy while professing to love animals, but he has eliminated 95% of animal products from his diet/lifestyle and just finds that last 5% difficult. But he doesn't argue with me about how cruelly dairy cows are treated or try to justify his actions, and I know he's worked really hard to get to where he's at now.
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#77 Old 07-06-2006, 06:40 AM
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Mary, I used to be like your mother. I ignored articles, websites, etc. that told the truth about the dairy/egg industry as a way to continue my dairy/egg consumption. I wasn't ready to know the truth, sad isn't it? After joining and reading here, I've decided to finally be honest with myself. Now I've chosen to eat a vegan diet. It hasn't been easy but when I crave cheese I just think of the cows and their babies. I haven't been a "perfect" vegan, I cheated by eating pizza



I'm trying though! I'm a work in progress. This weekend I'm making a trip to a great health food store to stock up on vegan-friendly foods.
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#78 Old 07-06-2006, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by purrpelle View Post

make sure it's not brewers yeast.



OMG! The lady at Whole Foods told me they were the same thing. Glad I decided not to buy it then.



My roommate and I went vegatarian about 1 year ago. After about 5 months, she started slipping into her old eating habits (sneaking a burger while I wasn't around until she eventually started bringing meat back into the house). Now she's full-blown omni again. I, however, went vegan about 1 month ago. I finally made the realization that I was still contributing to the suffering of animals through my dairy/egg consumption so I made a conscious decision to stop consuming them.



My biggest issue right now is variety. I'm going to check out the recipe blog and make copies and then keep all of the new recipes in a binder in my kitchen. This plan should really help.
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#79 Old 07-06-2006, 08:47 AM
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I shuddered when I thought about how it would taste to add brewers yeast into one of my recipes. lol

I'm actually pretty ok with people who simply believe animals have a different place in life compared to those who say how much they care about animals while consuming them or products taken from them at high costs. My husband simply doesn't believe animals have much of a purpose beyond providing nourishment for humans. I don't agree but I respect his right to believe that. At least he's consistent though.

This all sparked from a newstory about rescued horses. They were pretty well neglected and living in filth and my mom said "How can someone do that to an animal?" so I answered "People do it for money all the time" and she went into a tirade about how she didn't want to hear about the "big mean dairy industry". What is the difference between a horse and a cow? Honestly?

Mary
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#80 Old 07-06-2006, 08:47 AM
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I shuddered when I thought about how it would taste to add brewers yeast into one of my recipes. lol

I'm actually pretty ok with people who simply believe animals have a different place in life compared to those who say how much they care about animals while consuming them or products taken from them at high costs. My husband simply doesn't believe animals have much of a purpose beyond providing nourishment for humans. I don't agree but I respect his right to believe that. At least he's consistent though.

This all sparked from a newstory about rescued horses. They were pretty well neglected and living in filth and my mom said "How can someone do that to an animal?" so I answered "People do it for money all the time" and she went into a tirade about how she didn't want to hear about the "big mean dairy industry". What is the difference between a horse and a cow? Honestly?

Mary
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#81 Old 07-06-2006, 08:56 AM
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Mary, my husband believes as yours regarding animals although my husband is also a vegetarian. His reason for choosing a vegetarian diet are for health reasons only. We were both LO until I joined VB and educated myself on the dairy industry. I also don't understand how a person (who is educated in regards to the dairy industry) can choose a vegetarian diet to "save the animals" but yet consume dairy/eggs?



I was just plain ignorant and uneducated. But now that I know I can't continue consuming it.
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#82 Old 07-06-2006, 09:07 AM
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Mary, my husband believes as yours regarding animals although my husband is also a vegetarian. His reason for choosing a vegetarian diet are for health reasons only. We were both LO until I joined VB and educated myself on the dairy industry. I also don't understand how a person (who is educated in regards to the dairy industry) can choose a vegetarian diet to "save the animals" but yet consume dairy/eggs?



I was just plain ignorant and uneducated. But now that I know I can't continue consuming it.



My husband is contemplating strict vegetarianism for health reasons.

I was pretty ignorant too. Until I came to this board and started actually reading what everyone was posting I brushed it off as radical PETA stuff. I really wanted to believe the California Dairy commercial crap.

I even brushed off a lot of what was written here. I was trying very hard to keep my head in the sand! Then I saw a documentary (a plain old non activist tv show) that featured working on a dairy farm and it was plain horrible! The cows were just in this large shed with tiny windows that let in barely enough light to see around. They were all crowded in together just standing in their own filth. It was so sad and horrible. This show was attempting to paint it in a GOOD light too. That same show did a show working in a hatchery. When they were sexing the baby chicks they literally picked them up by a leg, wing, whatever, looked and then TOSSED the baby chick into the appropriate pile of chicks. Even my husband grimaced watching it. He said "Well that's a bit extreme. Yuck.".Then I started reading and realized it didn't matter to them as the boys were heading for death and they were probably the lucky ones. This show was hard to dismiss. They were actually trying to show the best parts. The hatchery skipped the battery cages and in the dairy farm they showed as little of the actual cows as they possible could (it was more about making feed then the farm). If that was the best they could show, I don't want to see the worst.

Suddenly eggs and cheese really didn't taste good anymore.

Mary
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#83 Old 07-06-2006, 09:16 AM
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Mary, I saw a show as well called "Dirty Jobs" on Discovery channel. This guy had to work in a hatchery/dairy farm.... it was disgusting. But even after seeing that show I still buried my head in the sand. They even had to squeeze the chicks - and some nasty liquid shot out their rear.



I probably don't want to really know the answer, but what happens to the male chicks?
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#84 Old 07-06-2006, 09:21 AM
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Mary, I saw a show as well called "Dirty Jobs" on Discovery channel. This guy had to work in a hatchery/dairy farm.... it was disgusting. But even after seeing that show I still buried my head in the sand. They even had to squeeze the chicks - and some nasty liquid shot out their rear.



I probably don't want to really know the answer, but what happens to the male chicks?



Hey that was the show! I called it a documentary, I suppose it's really just a reality tv show. I don't know.



Generally the males are killed. I think they're SUPPOSED to be euthanized but, from what I understand, generally they're just left to suffocate or crushed alive for feed. Really lovely, I know. Judging by how they piled them in that show, I'm sure the ones on the bottom where being suffocated or crushed anyhow.

Mary

ETA I never saw the end of that show. I saw him tossing the chicks and I nearly tossed my dinner. I turned the channel and, you know, I've never watched the since.
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#85 Old 07-06-2006, 09:31 AM
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ohhh Mary, be glad you didn't see the entire show. It was horrible. It didn't even register in my brain when I was watching it - what was really happening with the chicks. It's awful
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#86 Old 07-06-2006, 10:00 AM
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I live in Vermont, so I have many happy memories of driving through my rural town and seeing our famous cows. Even now when I've driving down the highway and look out my window I have the privilege of seeing lush, green fields with happy, peaceful cows grazing in the bright sunshine. It really is an idealistic, wish-you-were-here postcard, poetry inspiring scene. Just to think that a month ago, when I was only vegetarian, I could look out at this and feel responsible for the serenity in their beautiful brown eyes.

The day before I became vegan, I was thinking about everything I had read about veganism...and my vegan friend's answer to "why are you vegan?" Her words echoed in my head - "I don't feel that animals should be exploited for my personal gain." As I sat in the car, looking out the window...all I could think was...those cows are living and breathing, I wondered if anyone else appreciated their lives. I wondered if the tourists who are always so fond of taking their pictures stop to buy hamburgers on the way to their hotels. The cows they make over now are going to wind up on their dinner plates eventually. Is that right?

And then came the moment of my breakthrough - I was looking in at a field of dairy cows. Gazing up the field I could see a large barn. And what happens in there that I'm supporting? Those cows who have just been torn away from their children have to go through what in that dismal place? Cows are not machines. Just like humans, you can see into their souls by simply looking into those large brown eyes. What just cause is there to inflict pain and sadness, grief and hopelessness on these animals? They were not born to be pumped dry and killed...



they were born to live.



All those weeks of being a faithful vegetarian I had been blind...I thought by not eating meat and buying organic milk I was reducing animal suffering to the best of my ability. Right now, a few weeks into my new lifestyle, I still feel groggy - it's surprising how long I had been sleeping...for the past fifteen years, really.



The cows who produced my organic milk or parm. cheese are surely dead now - maybe I've already seen them, sandwiched between bread for someone's dinner...the leather on the sandals I wanted for so long (and now am ashamed I own)...it devastates me to think I had a hand in such suffering without even knowing it!



But I can't think that way --- I should be proud I learned so much so quickly, and that because I learned so young that I will save many lives. I hope that those animals who suffered and died for me have forgiven me, because I promise I'll redeem myself.
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#87 Old 07-06-2006, 10:17 AM
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But I can't think that way --- I should be proud I learned so much so quickly, and that because I learned so young that I will save many lives. I hope that those animals who suffered and died for me have forgiven me, because I promise I'll redeem myself.



Your whole post was great. But the last little bit really resonates with me because it's exactly how I feel.
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#88 Old 07-09-2006, 09:35 AM
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GNUmoe - your post was amazing.



Can I vent here? I went grocery shopping with my mom yesterday to a great health food/organic grocery store. They also have a cafe there where we ate lunch before shopping. I was talking to my mom about my choice to become vegan. She claimed that dairy cows are MADE to give dairy... that they don't have to have calves to produce milk!! I explained to her the truth about dairy cows and she argued with me! Our argument continued about animals in general. I was soooo frustrated.
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#89 Old 07-09-2006, 11:58 AM
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The cows who produced my organic milk or parm. cheese are surely dead now - maybe I've already seen them, sandwiched between bread for someone's dinner...the leather on the sandals I wanted for so long (and now am ashamed I own)...it devastates me to think I had a hand in such suffering without even knowing it!





The above should be written up in big red letters at the top of VeggieBoards. Just to remind people lest they forget.
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#90 Old 07-09-2006, 12:23 PM
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GNUmoe - your post was amazing.



Can I vent here? I went grocery shopping with my mom yesterday to a great health food/organic grocery store. They also have a cafe there where we ate lunch before shopping. I was talking to my mom about my choice to become vegan. She claimed that dairy cows are MADE to give dairy... that they don't have to have calves to produce milk!! I explained to her the truth about dairy cows and she argued with me! Our argument continued about animals in general. I was soooo frustrated.



It's amazing the lengths people will go to justify what they want isn't it? My mom used to claim cows would die if they weren't milked. That way she could feel like she was doing them a favor if she bought dairy products. Hows that for justification?

Ask your mom if she's still producing breastmilk on her own without a baby.

My favorite though is the whole "I would love to but I CAN'T give up milk or cheese (it's always milk or cheese too right?). I'm too weak" or whatever. Why not just say the truth? You don't WANT to and it doesn't matter to you if the animal suffers to provide it just so long as you enjoy it? Grr. I don't agree but I'll respect that. I have zero respect for the whining about how you "can't" give it up.

That and those who claim they need it for health reasons. My mom tries to claim she needs to eat dairy to stay healthy. You can't get anything from cheese that you can't from the plant world, you WANT the cheese to be the only alternative because you enjoy it.



It aggrivates me no end to hear that crap from someone who claims to "love animals". Whatever. When you know the truth and decide to do nothing about it, you're making a choice to make an animal suffer.

Mary

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