Quote:Originally Posted by catmandu

I tend to think this is defensiveness on the part of the PETA knockers rather than a problem with PETA per se. People don't like being challenged with regard something as basic as what food they put in their mouths, especially when it's the same food they've been putting in their mouths since the day they were born. They don't want to hear that such a basic activity, and such a fundamental part of the status quo, bears reconsideration. Some of PETA's strategies are a little too flippant, imo (think leaf-lettuce lady), but it can't be denied that they're largely responsible for putting an AR perspective on the map: they've made it part of public consciousness in a way no one else has. For that reason alone I'd support them. Beyond that, I think that those who say PETA is made up of "crazy people" likely think that not about PETA so much as they think it about AR in general. It's the idea that nonhuman animals are deserving of something more than the marginal respect currently granted them that's "crazy." There are those who want the boat to remain forever unrocked.







Again, I think this is the perspective of those who feel too burdened by the challenge PETA confronts them with. PETA does its fair share of touchy-feely stuff (think Newkirk's "Making Kind Choices: Everyday Ways to Enhance Your Life Through Earth- and Animal-Friendly Living" book, for instance; or some of their public-service ads; or some of their campaigns e.g. "Tell Us About Your Dog's Birthday Party!"); alot of what they do uses humor as well. But when they say, "Stop the Violence!" - however sweetly - some people are going to react negatively because they perceive a personal threat & condemnation & will in consequence dig in their heels. I don't think any ARA is going to make such people happy, except one who's willing to nod sympathetically as they're being told about the aesthetic pleasures of meat eating, then just goes away.







PETA's difficulty (and that of any AR advocate) lies in stretching present moral boundaries while yet not appearing to be "holier-than-thou." How does one do this? How do you tell someone, "I feel that what you're doing is wrong" without simultaneously presenting yourself, however gently, however respectfully, as someone who feels that they have found a "better way"; how do this without being perceived as "looking down" on anyone who doesn't agree? Address people's concerns with the new perspective you're offering on as many fronts as you can; accept the person, but not necessarily their actions; be kind to your opposition, but intelligently critical - yes; but, when you've done that and have been doing that for a long, long time,Quote:at a certain point you're going to want to rough things up a bit


. Anyhow, I don't think people, in the long run, respect wimps; which, at a certain point, is what "touchy feely" ARAs turn into.



Imo.







Billions of animals live miserably & die miserably each year to satisfy our urge for meat & other animal products, for medical research purposes, testing purposes, & for the sake of providing us with entertainment. Acts of aggression & violence are being perpetrated upon many, many animals each & every second. Agressiveness as a politically expedient act is worth questioning, imo; but can't be dismissed out of hand. Individual supporters of AR as well as AR organizations have worked many years via peaceful and pacific means to effect change; many (most, I think) continue to work by such means (& yet we're still accused of aggression). But regardless of the method by which we work for social change, we are all aware, all the time, of those animals who are suffering & dying (though we can't really grasp it fully, any more than you or anyone else can; the numbers are too staggeringly high). So, eventually, some advocates feel that enough is enough, and that acts of aggression (against animals) should be met with the same (towards those who perpetrate the violence). Also, in the political realm, I think a lack of aggression is seen as being equivalent to powerlessness. Politics is generally fought with gloves off, except when it comes to the PR side of things. And if you're having difficulty getting yourself into an "insider's" position within the political sphere, or choose purposely to remain an "outsider," your aggression is likely to work itself out in other places & other ways. And may even be done so with pleasure.



ETA: Also (I think this serves as additional reply to barrylove & RipMike both) consider this: The respectful & generous boss . . . is still your boss.




I stopped reading this reply.....catmandu doesn'y get it..If ANYONE thinks that you get respect and followers by 'roughing' things up a bit..hmmmmm.

Try this...try talking to me about an issue, any issue. Lets say I don't agree with what you say and argue the point....

What I would like you to do is 'ROUGH ME UP A BIT'. See how far that gets you.

To THINK for one second that I would 'start to listen' because you 'rough me a bit' (TRY TO ANYWAY)....you need to understand psychology a bit. Nobody is saying you have to be 'wimp' at presenting facts, but you do have to understand that what we (vegans) are about is different to most people. You have to be prepared to handle what is going to be a tense conversation and handle it with tact and professionalism. Not respond by 'roughing up a bit'.



Perfect example of what people feel about PETA..

IT is 7:42 in the am here....

I just returned from a husband and wife client......

As I was training them I noticed 3 squirrels playing an a huge tree in their backyard..I commented on how cool that was and they said..'Yeah they are, but they are ruining our garden. I would shoot them with a BB gun, but I don't want PETA to come and burn my house down'.

Now where would someone get that from?



Reality is - 'Do something negative and people will remember THAT more than all the good you have done. THAT IS FACT!' To argue this point is simply hiding and not wanting to take responsibility.



IF WE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD AND SEE HUGE CHANGES AS FAR AS AR IS CONCERNED, NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES, ONE HAS TO REMAIN COOL!



You may reply to this thread with a blind eye..it doesn't matter, I will nto be reading it. After your professional comment to 'rough things up'......well, enough said.



Actually not enough said..I forgot.....You believe people are 'wimps' because they choose to handle situations in a tactful manner? WOW......



NOW that is enough said..