honey... who cares? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 09-22-2004, 03:44 AM
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I have been veggie for over a year now... One thing that has always been on my mind and nagging for me to find an answer to.



Why not eat honey? If I'm not mistaken bee's to do not even have a central nervous center (this can always be debated because we just may not know how theres work) BUT... I have been around bee's in captivity.



Some friends have 3 hives in their back yard... one of which was a 'swarming hive' that had left it's other home and came and lived in his...



They aren't hurt... They are fed all winter... So what's the deal?



Someone tell me why I should eat as much of this sweet goodness as I can ...
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#2 Old 09-22-2004, 03:49 AM
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This explains it: http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm



I'm not arsed by honey, but some of the things you said aren't correct. They do have a central nervous system and are harmed by the production methods used. It's not an issue that I make a big deal out of it, since they're "just insects".
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#3 Old 09-22-2004, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadrashClothing View Post

Someone tell me why I should eat as much of this sweet goodness as I can ...



Are you a bear? (If so, then watch out; vegetarians eat bear flesh.)
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#5 Old 09-22-2004, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Kurmudgeon View Post

Are you a bear? (If so, then watch out; vegetarians eat bear flesh.)





what the heck are you talking about?
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#6 Old 09-22-2004, 09:52 AM
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They are harmed in the production methods? How so?





My friends have a few hives... His sister (right next door) and her husband had hundreds of hives. The bee's come and go as they please and if they don't like the place, they leave.. Or as they call it "swarm".



I'm just not seeing how the bee's are harmed and how eating their biproduct is bad.



I will check out those post and site you gave, thanks Maybe I can find what i'm looking for there... I'm not really looking for opinions though which is mostly what i've found myself but for fact...



I'm not talking about eating the bee's or keeping them locked up (as in egg farms).



And I am being open minded, i honestly just want to know what drives others to not eat honey so I can see if that's something I wish to drop as well...



Thanks for all your help
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#7 Old 09-22-2004, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BadrashClothing View Post

I'm not really looking for opinions though.....

..........i honestly just want to know what drives others to not eat honey so I can see if that's something I wish to drop as well...



You don't want opinions yet you want to know why others avoid honey? Make up your mind.



Also, in your initial post you asked for reasons to eat honey (indeed, as much of it as you can)...... yet now you are wanting to see if it is something you wish to avoid?
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#8 Old 09-22-2004, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BadrashClothing View Post


... I'm not really looking for opinions though which is mostly what i've found myself but for fact...



read the rest of the sentence, there is a huge difference between fact and opinion. as for the other, it was a joke.
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#9 Old 09-22-2004, 10:50 AM
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they say bees are 'raped', and "I would also add that plants and the earth were not made for humans either" from http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm



that site's really credible
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#10 Old 09-22-2004, 11:28 AM
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i skimmed over it. what wasnt credible ? it seems it had links to references.
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#11 Old 09-22-2004, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by manioca View Post

that site's really credible



-notes you also have five posts-
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#12 Old 09-22-2004, 01:49 PM
 
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Who cares? I think the bees do. They make honey for themselves, not for us.
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#13 Old 09-22-2004, 02:01 PM
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Oh, yuck! I always wondered how bees made honey. That cartoon was funny yet disgusting at the same time. Honey can never cross my lips again.
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#14 Old 09-22-2004, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by clickman View Post

-notes you also have five posts-



so?



If someone says plants and the earth were not made for humans, I think they're a little off their rocker. Humans are part of nature, we're not some alien breed that invaded this planet.
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#15 Old 09-22-2004, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurmudgeon View Post

You don't want opinions yet you want to know why others avoid honey? Make up your mind.



Also, in your initial post you asked for reasons to eat honey (indeed, as much of it as you can)...... yet now you are wanting to see if it is something you wish to avoid?





First statement. I want to know FACTS on why people don't eat honey... Is that so hard to understand? You want give attitude I have lots more to give back.



Second:... it's a mistype.
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#16 Old 09-22-2004, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by manioca View Post

so?



If someone says plants and the earth were not made for humans, I think they're a little off their rocker. Humans are part of nature, we're not some alien breed that invaded this planet.







haha, I wouldn't doubt we weren't some alien breed. I think we're nuts.



I just want to thank everyone (well almost everyone hah) for the references and links.



I understand now why people chose to not eat honey... I guess I was looking for some great epiphany. My friend asked me why one time said that was the only thing he couldn't understand about Vegans... I just told him because it's another beings byproduct. But other than that, being a honey eater, I just became curious as to why. I think I get it now.



Thanks again! I'll keep reading about it... But I haven't made up my mind YET.
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#17 Old 09-22-2004, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manioca View Post

so?



If someone says plants and the earth were not made for humans, I think they're a little off their rocker. Humans are part of nature, we're not some alien breed that invaded this planet.





Well, I guess I'm off my rocker...I don't believe that plants or the earth were "made" for humans. The earth was here long before humans (or any other species) came into existance, so how could it be "made" for us? We're just one of the many species that happened to evolve on this planet. The earth does not belong to any species in particular. If anything, WE belong to IT.
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#18 Old 09-22-2004, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manioca View Post

that site's really credible

Can you explain why the site isn't credible. I've been quoting it when people ask about honey, but if the information is cites is incorrect I would like to know so, that way I don't keep quoting inaccurate information. Thanks.
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#19 Old 09-26-2004, 07:43 AM
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isnt honey bee throw up?
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#20 Old 09-27-2004, 12:01 PM
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Killer bees are not natural. They are the result of humans tearing into their hives for thousands of years. They are merely trying to survive, and we, in our infinite wisdom have selected out all the non-agressive ones in favor of the most agressive. ONly the ones that immediately attacked survived. That alone is a good reason not to eat honey. If it didn't do any dammage why are there killer bees? They are genetically no different from european bees, but are twenty or thirty times as agressive.
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#21 Old 09-27-2004, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Vegan Carma View Post

Killer bees are not natural. They are the result of humans tearing into their hives for thousands of years.



Pretty much completely wrong.



Killer bees were intentionally created by hybridizing domestic bees with a wild African strain. The inventers were going for disease and heat resistance for farms in South America. What they got was highly aggressive bees. (Africanized honeybees can actually be domesticated, they require a bit more work however.)



The artifical selection logic does not apply because the bees killed during honey harvesting are non-reproductive workers.



In general, honey is one of those things that does not bother me that much. I don't see bees as moral agents on the same level as vertebrate livestock, and I think much of the hoopla about honey is done to draw lines in the sand for the sake of drawing lines in the sand. Having said that, I don't buy honey because I'd much rather support sorghum.
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#22 Old 09-28-2004, 11:20 PM
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No, you're completely wrong. That may have been how they got to North America, but that is not why they are so agressive. There have been attempts to pacify the bees by further cross breeding with the European variety, but they failed. I seriously doubt you have ever been to Africa, as every time I have approached a hive in Malawi they have begun bussing me at about fifty paces. I grew up on a farm next to a Dutch neighbor who had an apiary with Eurpean bees, and you could sit right next to a hive without being bothered. In the bush you would be dead if you got that close.



I'm not an entomologist or anything, but this is my direct experience. The Bantus go out for honey all the time, and they do not use smoke or anything to chill the bees out. They do not harvest it in any thoughtful way. They tear the hive apart, and rip the comb out. The bees go crazy. Do this for a few centuries or a milenia and you get what you deserve.



Post a link smarty pants. I've seen this with my own eyes. The breeding has nothing to do with the agressive nature of African bees, and everything to do with them trying to survive.
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#23 Old 09-28-2004, 11:38 PM
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