A Vegan Way to Deal with Introduced Species - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 02-15-2016, 04:15 PM
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I'm just saying, in the grand scheme, what do the "native species" matter? What does it matter if a species is introduced or native? They all are just animals. If cats happen to be thriving in Australia at the expense of other animals, why should we be concerned?

The environment/ecosystem is already irreparably ****ed. There nothing to be done to save the planet. So don't give me environmental reasons.

Vegans are the only true environmentalists anyway.

True environmentalists are either vegan or vegetarian. While veganism is encouraged or reduces water usage more significantly, as far as I know the general scientific consensus is that you're only an environmentalist if you are vegetarian, that includes lacto-ovo.

Also, I'm sorry, I'm trying to work on being less abrasive - but you simply don't know what you're talking about. One of my skills includes teaching older children about eco-systems, I've take a couple of courses in ecology and conservation, and you simply do not understand what an eco-system is. There are multiple eco-systems, there isn't just one, and it's not only in the wilderness. Look up the term "keystone species." Once a keystone species topples, it has a domino effect. It's quite terrifying.

Furthermore, eco-systems can take thousands or millions of years to reconstruct. Hunans would be long gone as a specifies, by that time. It doesn't happen in three years.

I honestly avoid people with your attitude too. Anyone who isn't doing their best to fend off the destruction of the earth is a problem maker, not a problem solver.

The human race could be gone in 100 years. Not to mention the animals that could disappear with them.

Watch Racing Extinction. It's on Google Play now.
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#32 Old 02-15-2016, 04:25 PM
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True environmentalists are either vegan or vegetarian. While veganism is encouraged or reduces water usage more significantly, as far as I know the general scientific consensus is that you're only an environmentalist if you are vegetarian, that includes lacto-ovo.

Also, I'm sorry, I'm trying to work on being less abrasive - but you simply don't know what you're talking about. One of my skills includes teaching older children about eco-systems, I've take a couple of courses in ecology and conservation, and you simply do not understand what an eco-system is. There are multiple eco-systems, there isn't just one, and it's not only in the wilderness. Look up the term "keystone species." Once a keystone species topples, it has a domino effect. It's quite terrifying.

Furthermore, eco-systems can take thousands or millions of years to reconstruct. Hunans would be long gone as a specifies, by that time. It doesn't happen in three years.

I honestly avoid people with your attitude too. Anyone who isn't doing their best to fend off the destruction of the earth is a problem maker, not a problem solver.

The human race could be gone in 100 years. Not to mention the animals that could disappear with them.

Watch Racing Extinction. It's on Google Play now.



We will agree to disagree on most all of that. I'm not speaking as a scientist, nor do I pretend to be an expert. My ever-so-humble opinon, good scientist, is that veganism is the first and last solution. Frankly, if you're not a vegan, you are part of the problem.

I honestly avoid people who are not vegan, like yourself.
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#33 Old 02-15-2016, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Necter View Post
We will agree to disagree on most all of that. I'm not speaking as a scientist, nor do I pretend to be an expert. My ever-so-humble opinon, good scientist, is that veganism is the first and last solution. Frankly, if you're not a vegan, you are part of the problem.

I honestly avoid people who are not vegan, like yourself.
Being vegan won't and can't fix everything, it's just a small piece in a much larger puzzle of environmental conservation. You are either greatly ignorant of how the world and it's ecosystems work or just extremely stubborn if you think veganism is a "cure-all" for the worlds environmental problems.
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#34 Old 02-15-2016, 04:49 PM
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Being vegan won't and can't fix everything, it's just a small piece in a much larger puzzle of environmental conservation. You are either greatly ignorant of how the world and it's ecosystems work or just extremely stubborn if you think veganism is a "cure-all" for the worlds environmental problems.
Maybe you're right, I don't know anything about the world. But I speak for the animals. The animals suffering in factory farms and slaughterhouses. They don't care about environment conservation, they just don't want to be killed and eaten. I think our attention should go to their plight first and foremost.

When humanity is majority vegan, then I will care about conserving this world.

Last edited by Necter; 02-15-2016 at 04:57 PM.
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#35 Old 02-15-2016, 05:01 PM
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You do realise that keeping animals alive and healthy is directly linked to also keeping the environment alive and healthy right? Or do you somehow think these are two separate things.
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#36 Old 02-15-2016, 05:06 PM
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You do realise that keeping animals alive and healthy is directly linked to also keeping the environment alive and healthy right? Or do you somehow think these are two separate things.

Well, that's the thing. Which animals signify a healthy environment? Predators? Prey? Humans?

It couldn't be humans. We signify a unhealthy environment.
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#37 Old 02-15-2016, 05:10 PM
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Well, that's the thing. Which animals signify a healthy environment? Predators? Prey? Humans?

It couldn't be humans. We signify a unhealthy environment.
Of course we do, we are the most destructive animal that exists on this planet today. But short of going all Hitler-style and wiping out half the human race then what do you suggest we do about it? Educating the population on environmental issues, trying to help restore wildlife and ecosystems to a healthy state, and reduce our environmental impact is all we can do at this stage.

Out of curiosity, can I ask how old you are? I've never met someone with such strange opinions on this topic before as you, I'm finding it very interesting to meet someone who claims to care about some animals but not about the environment.
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#38 Old 02-15-2016, 05:23 PM
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Of course we do, we are the most destructive animal that exists on this planet today. But short of going all Hitler-style and wiping out half the human race then what do you suggest we do about it? Educating the population on environmental issues, trying to help restore wildlife and ecosystems to a healthy state, and reduce our environmental impact is all we can do at this stage.

Out of curiosity, can I ask how old you are? I've never met someone with such strange opinions on this topic before as you, I'm finding it very interesting to meet someone who claims to care about some animals but not about the environment.

I respect animals. Thus, I am vegan. My solution is extreme, but efficient.

Define 'environment'. I never said I didn't care about the environment.

Last edited by Necter; 02-15-2016 at 05:30 PM.
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#39 Old 02-15-2016, 05:41 PM
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I respect animals. Thus, I am vegan. My solution is extreme, but efficient.

Define 'environment'. I never said I didn't care about the environment.
"The environment/ecosystem is already irreparably ****ed. There nothing to be done to save the planet. So don't give me environmental reasons."

Here you literally said there's no use trying to save the planet and the environment/ecosystem since it's already "irreparably ****ed".
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#40 Old 02-15-2016, 05:49 PM
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I respect animals. Thus, I am vegan. My solution is extreme, but efficient.

Define 'environment'. I never said I didn't care about the environment.
I find it conflicting that you're adamant about animal exploitation,but see no need to rectify the disasters we've caused by exploitation.Like you being vegan and angry about everybody else matters somehow?
It's not just that the these alien species humans have introduced are destroying the native species, but the cats are suffering themselves.
How do you justify one source of abuse as horrific and be okay with another?
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#41 Old 02-15-2016, 05:51 PM
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"The environment/ecosystem is already irreparably ****ed. There nothing to be done to save the planet. So don't give me environmental reasons."

Here you literally said there's no use trying to save the planet and the environment/ecosystem since it's already "irreparably ****ed".
ok so I exaggerated... my point is just that I see animal rights vegans and environmentalist vegans as two separate camps. Both are valid, but I see them differently.
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#42 Old 02-15-2016, 05:53 PM
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I find it conflicting that you're adamant about animal exploitation,but see no need to rectify the disasters we've caused by exploitation.Like you being vegan and angry about everybody else matters somehow?
It's not just that the these alien species humans have introduced are destroying the native species, but the cats are suffering themselves.
How do you justify one source of abuse as horrific and be okay with another?
I suspect you are lacto-ovo-vegetarian.

Last edited by Necter; 02-15-2016 at 05:57 PM.
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#43 Old 02-15-2016, 05:53 PM
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ok so I exaggerated... my point is just that I see animal rights vegans and environmentalist vegans as two separate camps. Both are valid, but I see them differently.
The fact that you can't link animals and the environment is one of the weirdest things I've read recently. I don't know how you ended up so close-minded and confused. It is very bizarre indeed.
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#44 Old 02-15-2016, 05:56 PM
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The fact that you can't link animals and the environment is one of the weirdest things I've read recently. I don't know how you ended up so close-minded and confused. It is very bizarre indeed.
yes you're right, since you know everything about how I think.
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#45 Old 02-15-2016, 05:57 PM
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I suspect you are lacto-ovo-veg.
WHAT? there is nothing in what I said that could imply that
You truly come across as caring more about you than anything related to animals. Like your whole world is tightly wrapped in the label of "I'm vegan"
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#46 Old 02-15-2016, 05:59 PM
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WHAT? there is nothing in what I said that could imply that
You truly come across as caring more about you than anything related to animals. Like your whole world is tightly wrapped in the label of "I'm vegan"
So do you think vegans are more pure than lacto-ovo-vegetarians or not?
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#47 Old 02-15-2016, 06:00 PM
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WHAT? there is nothing in what I said that could imply that
You truly come across as caring more about you than anything related to animals. Like your whole world is tightly wrapped in the label of "I'm vegan"
Just look under their username, it says "vegan supremacist". That about sums up this arrogant and "holier than thou" way of thinking.
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#48 Old 02-15-2016, 06:20 PM
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So do you think vegans are more pure than lacto-ovo-vegetarians or not?
Not necessarily, no. There is so much fight for and to fight against.
I aspire to live as a vegan because that's who I am. Those people fighting for other causes are every bit as important to this earth as vegans are- Doctors without borders, Food not bombs, THe water project, Habitat for humanity, World wildlife foundation, The humane society, .............
What do you do that makes you so much better?
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#49 Old 02-15-2016, 06:21 PM
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Not necessarily, no. There is so much fight for and to fight against.
I aspire to live as a vegan because that's who I am. Those people fighting for other causes are every bit as important to this earth as vegans are- Doctors without borders, Food not bombs, THe water project, Habitat for humanity, World wildlife foundation, The humane society, .............
What do you do that makes you so much better?
I don't eat murder.
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#50 Old 02-15-2016, 06:23 PM
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I don't eat murder.
And I don't listen to uneducated hillbillys who are so stupid that they can't even see a link between environmental protection and animal protection.
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#51 Old 02-15-2016, 06:45 PM
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I don't eat murder.

You and everyone else here.
That by itself is very inconsequential
Can't you see the forest for the trees?
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#52 Old 03-12-2016, 04:34 AM
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Right now, the lives of millions of Australia’s cats are on the line.

In July 2015, Minister Hunt and the Department of the Environment announced plans to kill two million cats by 2020 in a misguided attempt to save wildlife. Habitat destruction not cats has caused dozens of species in Australia to go extinct and endangers many more. Rather than focusing on the hard work of protecting the bush, Mr. Hunt has waged war on cats.



Hunt’s plan is not only unsound, but also ineffective and inhumane. Cats cannot be eliminated through killing. Decades of failed attempts to wipe cats out have proven this. Surviving cats reproduce quickly and fill the void, otherwise known as the vacuum effect.



The plan will only cause cats to suffer and die needlessly, with little change in the cat population and no benefit to wildlife. And it’s not just the cats who will suffer. Poisons and barbaric traps are cruel and do not discriminate. Other species will be caught both literally and figuratively in the crossfire.



It is time for Australia to embrace ethical, sound, and proven methods. Leading Australian conservationists argue in favor of nonlethal means of protecting animals in the bush. In urban settings, the humane and effective approach is to de-sex alley cats and return them to their outdoor homes. When cats are de-sexed, populations stabilise and then decline.



Australians are banding together to ask Minister Hunt to end his department’s plan to kill millions of cats. Join us.
Sign the pledge and declare that you want the government to do better by our nation’s cats.




http://getinvolved.alleycat.org/site...alia_Cats.html
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#53 Old 03-12-2016, 04:52 AM
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I suppose some of these arguments could be summed up as humans can either choose to be part of a solution (and let's face it as a species we sort owe the rest of the earth's species some tidy up time) or we can choose to continue the problem. However no matter what part of the solution you (no one specific - but in the general sense) are working on - I'm glad. I'm happy for every little bit that people do. I'm happy that people recycle, I'm happy that the fiance is switching to plant milk, I'm happy that I am privileged enough to be able to make these choices.

As for the cat problem in Australia. I have no idea how to make it work. In the UK there is a huge problem with the introduced grey squirrel - there are now only a few pockets left of the indigenous red squirrel ... :-( I'm not sure that any of the solutions that they have tried have worked.
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#54 Old 03-12-2016, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Parenthesis View Post
Right now, the lives of millions of Australia’s cats are on the line.

In July 2015, Minister Hunt and the Department of the Environment announced plans to kill two million cats by 2020 in a misguided attempt to save wildlife. Habitat destruction not cats has caused dozens of species in Australia to go extinct and endangers many more. Rather than focusing on the hard work of protecting the bush, Mr. Hunt has waged war on cats.



Hunt’s plan is not only unsound, but also ineffective and inhumane. Cats cannot be eliminated through killing. Decades of failed attempts to wipe cats out have proven this. Surviving cats reproduce quickly and fill the void, otherwise known as the vacuum effect.



The plan will only cause cats to suffer and die needlessly, with little change in the cat population and no benefit to wildlife. And it’s not just the cats who will suffer. Poisons and barbaric traps are cruel and do not discriminate. Other species will be caught both literally and figuratively in the crossfire.



It is time for Australia to embrace ethical, sound, and proven methods. Leading Australian conservationists argue in favor of nonlethal means of protecting animals in the bush. In urban settings, the humane and effective approach is to de-sex alley cats and return them to their outdoor homes. When cats are de-sexed, populations stabilise and then decline.



Australians are banding together to ask Minister Hunt to end his department’s plan to kill millions of cats. Join us.
Sign the pledge and declare that you want the government to do better by our nation’s cats.




http://getinvolved.alleycat.org/site...alia_Cats.html
This issue has been discussed on that thread : https://www.veggieboards.com/forum/15...eral-cats.html

That thread was closed because debate was impossible but there are still links and info there that can help realise why signing this petition without having a functionnal solution to the problem might not be such a good idea.
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Bon appétit !

Last edited by Ad Elie; 03-12-2016 at 11:56 AM.
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#55 Old 03-12-2016, 01:51 PM
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#56 Old 03-13-2016, 09:25 AM
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Yeah, wasn't the number of cats that certain members were advocating slaughtering in that thread somewhere around 20 million? Of course, that's only the number of cats currently in existence that were to be slaughtered by any means possible; since the stated goal was the eradication of cats in Australia, and since it will take many years to track down all the cats, that number will continue to grow over those years.

Imagine the size of the pile that just 20 million cats will make. Not a nice sight, that many corpses of cats shot, killed in traps, poisoned, hunted with dogs, etc.
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#57 Old 03-13-2016, 09:27 AM
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That thread was closed because debate was impossible
That tends to happen when one member states (repeatedly) that anyone who disagrees with her is an idiot, and that in fact pretty much everyone on here is an idiot.
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#58 Old 06-22-2016, 09:09 PM
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Create a new type of chlamydia (an std that has no other symptoms than loss of fertility) that only affect a specific species?
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