Rabbits are Live Lunch at Big Cat Rescue in Tampa, FL - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 03-12-2011, 07:14 PM
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Well, the issue with domesticated rabbits is they aren't hunting them. The rabbits are coming right up to them and getting eaten as surely as if they were a plate of already dead meat.

I think with baited lures they would get more practice chasing things and it would be less cruel. The live animal scenario would make more sense to me if it was a wild rat like syzygy mentioned.

I believe the logic is that first the cats have to learn that live rabbits are food, before they can learn to hunt, chase, and kill their food.
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#32 Old 03-12-2011, 07:19 PM
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If it's the most effective way to get them back into the wild, or into the wild in general and be able to survive, I'm still for it.

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#33 Old 03-12-2011, 07:55 PM
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#34 Old 03-12-2011, 08:06 PM
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If it's the most effective way to get them back into the wild, or into the wild in general and be able to survive, I'm still for it.

The point is, it's not.

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#35 Old 03-12-2011, 08:12 PM
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Apparently, wild bobcats near urban areas sometimes eat house cats and small dogs. Would it be ok to toss a Chihuahua in there?

I suspect some of the rabbit people that are upset about this would prefer it.
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#36 Old 03-12-2011, 08:14 PM
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The point is, it's not.


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#37 Old 03-12-2011, 08:16 PM
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#38 Old 03-12-2011, 08:17 PM
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Apparently, wild bobcats near urban areas sometimes eat house cats and small dogs. Would it be ok to toss a Chihuahua in there?

I think a chihuahua would be a better choice. You could get them from death row anyway, and they might run away.

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#39 Old 03-12-2011, 08:48 PM
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I was asking how YOU feel about it.
I would prefer they don't live-feed ANY domestic animals, especially those who have been socialized to not be fearful of the animal they're being fed to.

Seems if the plan is to eventually release the cats, it wouldn't make much sense to teach them to go after human pets. That'd just be asking for trouble down the line. And if, one way or the other, they are going to feed them live prey, why would it be better to put a rabbit through fear and panic before the kill, rather than a rabbit that isn't programmed to go through that fear?
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#40 Old 03-12-2011, 08:58 PM
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#41 Old 03-12-2011, 09:29 PM
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That's the point. These rabbits are human pets, the same as house cats or Chihuahuas. They are not using wild rabbits, they are using domestic (aka, pet) rabbits. Domestic rabbits are not even the same species as wild rabbits found in North America.

Yea, but they need to know bunnies are food, and they wont know that if they run away from them.

Step one: Get them used to bunnies being food
Step two: Get bunnies that will run away to be food

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#42 Old 03-12-2011, 09:41 PM
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#43 Old 03-13-2011, 08:33 AM
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That's where lure training comes in. Syzygy's experience indicates that it is effective. No need to live-feed pets of any kind.

There's a big cat place near here, and when a rabbit breeder dropped off three bunnies with upper respiratory infections to be used as food for the cats, the rescue paid for the rabbits to be treated, and one of their volunteers housed the rabbits until we could find homes for the rabbits. This cat place does not live-feed, they don't even use rabbits to feed the cats. The only reason the rabbits were there is because the breeder didn't want to spend the money (less than $50 for all three rabbits) to treat the respiratory infections. The cat place could have tossed the rabbits into a cat pen for "enrichment," but they didn't.

Bobcats eat live animals, yes? Bobcats also eat bunnies, yes? Therefore a bobcat eating a live bunny does not seem too bad to me. That's kinda of just life for animals on the lower food chain.

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#44 Old 03-13-2011, 10:06 AM
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#45 Old 03-13-2011, 11:41 AM
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Well, what's the point of arguing here about it? You're not going to change my mind. I'm going to be sending Big Cat Rescue letters and emails about how repugnant I find them, and spreading the word to ask others to do the same. If you disagree, fine.

The CEO of BCR is already under investigation for forging power of attorney papers before her husband went missing in 1997. Body never found, she was the sole beneficiary of millions of dollars. BCR has been written up numerous times for violations of the USDA animal welfare rules, and has lost it's accreditation as a charity. They've been found to have purchased and bred animals, and they board cats for Ringling Brothers. Now they're feeding pets to the cats.

Do you hate people that feed rats and mice to snakes? It's just what those animals need to survive.

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#46 Old 03-14-2011, 04:40 PM
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It is often that people speak from the heart and wish for a world of pure compassion and unending life. Those are very admirable goals and reducing suffering for all life is an important part of a good life that we all should strive for. But it is equally important and essential to realize that life is about balance and cycles. Life and death are entwined and necessary to each other. To make important wildlife management decisions based on our desire for a compassionate perfect world without accepting the reality of the world as it is, is counterproductive to our goal of reducing suffering and supporting Mother Earths overall health and wellbeing.

Without predators the herbivores would eat all the plants and then die of starvation and disease. While this is simplified, it makes the point that the concept of no predators maybe appealing, it is not practical in a healthy balanced environment.

I realize that most herbivores tend to reproduce more than would be ideal if they weren't getting killed off. A species which does not reproduce enough would usually become extinct sooner or later- so most animals have a tendency to overpopulate. What I have in mind is to artificially control the breeding of wild (or semi-wild) herbivores in limited areas. This would not (at this point) be practical large-scale, as it is labor-intensive, involving either regular doses of some sort of contraceptive preparation by injection or feeding, or else surgically sterilizing some of the animals.

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The Earth seeks balance and part of that balance involves the death and consumption of organisms so that other organisms may live. Predators prey on the sick, weak and infirm. They kill quickly and consume their prey with the purpose of self survival. Without predators, the prey species would suffer from other ailments and issues such as starvation. As an overall species, they would be denied the ability to have only most adapted and strongest carry their traits to the next generation thus producing even better adapted future generations of that species that have an even better chance of a happy, full life in the wild.

This should not be confused with humans who kill the strong, healthy and beautiful for sport and whimsy often only gathering a trophy and sometimes just the choicest bits of flesh. This results in the species having less of some of its best traits in future generations....

Okay. I think some points here are valid. Nonhuman predators, because they cannot "cheat" with a manufactured weapon, tend to kill individuals who are sick or disabled for some reason. However, it's sometimes just the luck of the draw whether an animal is killed by a predator or escapes. Examples: a herd of wildebeests and zebras crossing a river will be picked off largely at random by crocodiles lying in wait. I think studies of African lions have generally not shown lions to prey mostly on sick animals, although if an animal is obviously injured, they will jump at the chance of an easy kill. Still, if I recall correctly, most lion kills appeared to have been of healthy animals.

I'll have to take issue with the commonly-held idea that nonhuman predators kill more quickly and surely than human hunters. Orca whales apparently differ in their prey preference; some populations are primarily fish eaters; others prefer seals or other small warm-blooded animals. Others go after large whales- and those kills are not pleasant to watch.

Judith Rudnai, in her work "The Social Life Of The Lion", described a male lion feeding on a young antelope intermittently for an hour until the antelope died. It is true that some other kills she witnessed were much faster. More recently, lions have been found to kill elephants sometimes, and such a large animal does not die quickly or easily, even with several lions attacking. As for wolves, it's not unusual for them to make intermittent attacks on a large animal over a long time until their injured victim can be killed.

Peasant (1963-1972) and Fluffy (1970s?-1982- I think of you as 'Ambrose' now)- Your spirits outshone some humans I have known. Be happy forever.
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#47 Old 03-14-2011, 08:47 PM
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The CEO of BCR is already under investigation for forging power of attorney papers before her husband went missing in 1997. Body never found, she was the sole beneficiary of millions of dollars.

I wonder if he fit down the chute.
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#48 Old 03-17-2011, 05:36 PM
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#49 Old 03-17-2011, 05:47 PM
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It is very convenient.


BCR has now stated that the two bobcats that are shown on video eating the live rabbits will NOT be released. But they continue to feed the live rabbits, and broadcast the feedings via webcam (that people have to PAY to watch). They also posted a photo on their facebook page of three volunteers on a golf cart, each with a big smile and a dead, bloody, domestic rabbit. (The photo was left up overnight, then removed the following morning.)

BCR is claiming partial responsibility for making 'hunts' of live foxes and bobcats. The hunts were in pens, where dogs were trained to attack and kill the foxes and bobcats. They decry this as cruel, though they persist in live feeding of domestic rabbits to their bobcats. They keep using the excuse that it's to train the cats to hunt, but now they aren't even going to release them????

There is also a 'vegan' bakery that is making donations to BCR, and mocking people who have asked them to stop the donations in light of the issue with the bunnies.

Disgusting hypocrites, the lot of them.

Wow. What bakery is it?

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#50 Old 03-17-2011, 05:58 PM
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#51 Old 03-17-2011, 06:10 PM
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Sweet Avenue Bake Shop, in Rutherford, NJ.e This comment is directly from their facebook page:


Wow. And those cat's aren't even being rehabilitated.

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#52 Old 03-17-2011, 06:38 PM
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#53 Old 03-17-2011, 07:03 PM
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#54 Old 05-08-2011, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by RabbitLuvr View Post

Thank you for writing! You should suggest the "lure" system to them, it certainly sounds like a viable option to me.

I don't have any desire for wild predators to be forced into extinction, but if the purpose of teaching these particular animals to hunt, or to keep them hunting during rehab, then having their dinner walk right up to them is not going to help the animals at all.

Obviously, I would also like them to stop using live rabbits as food.

No other wildlife center practices this barbaric outdated feeding and If you followed the story, the bobcats were not even rehab cats. It is a fact bobcats do Not need taught to hunt, just as a bird does not need taught to fly or a fish to swim.

Big Cat Rescue ( Carole Baskin ) is currently under Investigation for Animal Cruelty with FWC & USDA: for unnecessarily feeding live domestic rabbits to Bobcats, torturing and killing domestic rabbits for feeding other Big Cats, illegally bringing 3 Bobcats into the state of Florida, and for the death of the 3 Bobcats. Not only were hundreds of domestic rabbits unnecessarily tortured and killed at BCR because Bobcats do Not need taught to hunt, the Bobcats were never releasable in the state of Florida or Alabama from the beginning, and the public was intentionally deceived (fraud). Call or email Captain Marlow for details: Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission, 850-410-0656 Ext. 17106, [email protected].
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#55 Old 05-08-2011, 11:01 AM
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#56 Old 05-08-2011, 12:02 PM
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No other wildlife center practices this barbaric outdated feeding and If you followed the story, the bobcats were not even rehab cats. It is a fact bobcats do Not need taught to hunt, just as a bird does not need taught to fly or a fish to swim.

LOL yes, they do. Animals that are bred in captivity have a really hard time doing 'instinctual' things. Especially being able to find and kill their own food. Most behaviors are taught by their mothers. Thats why cheetahs learn to hunt from their mother, and lions, and dolphins, and orcas, really any predatory animal. So yes, yes they do need to be taught.

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#57 Old 05-08-2011, 01:31 PM
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I realize that most herbivores tend to reproduce more than would be ideal if they weren't getting killed off. A species which does not reproduce enough would usually become extinct sooner or later- so most animals have a tendency to overpopulate. What I have in mind is to artificially control the breeding of wild (or semi-wild) herbivores in limited areas. This would not (at this point) be practical large-scale, as it is labor-intensive, involving either regular doses of some sort of contraceptive preparation by injection or feeding, or else surgically sterilizing some of the animals.


Okay. I think some points here are valid. Nonhuman predators, because they cannot "cheat" with a manufactured weapon, tend to kill individuals who are sick or disabled for some reason. However, it's sometimes just the luck of the draw whether an animal is killed by a predator or escapes. Examples: a herd of wildebeests and zebras crossing a river will be picked off largely at random by crocodiles lying in wait. I think studies of African lions have generally not shown lions to prey mostly on sick animals, although if an animal is obviously injured, they will jump at the chance of an easy kill. Still, if I recall correctly, most lion kills appeared to have been of healthy animals.

I'll have to take issue with the commonly-held idea that nonhuman predators kill more quickly and surely than human hunters. Orca whales apparently differ in their prey preference; some populations are primarily fish eaters; others prefer seals or other small warm-blooded animals. Others go after large whales- and those kills are not pleasant to watch.

Judith Rudnai, in her work "The Social Life Of The Lion", described a male lion feeding on a young antelope intermittently for an hour until the antelope died. It is true that some other kills she witnessed were much faster. More recently, lions have been found to kill elephants sometimes, and such a large animal does not die quickly or easily, even with several lions attacking. As for wolves, it's not unusual for them to make intermittent attacks on a large animal over a long time until their injured victim can be killed.

Where in your head does it make sense that the species (humans) who have done nothing but f*** over countless ecosystems has either the right, or the capacity to absolutely control nature?
Nature has developed a pretty perfect system, and humans are really the glitch.
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