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#1 Old 05-03-2009, 07:32 PM
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On a parrot board that I am a member at I posted about my decision to become a vegetarian. I expected for people to be understanding, as they are fellow animal lovers, and most were but here is something someone else wrote.

"I'll have to admit right up front that I just don't get the urge some have to go vegetarian or even worse vegan. We humans are omnivors not vegetarians. We're built that way just like many other animals. It seems that vegetarian activists never consider the long term results or the unintended consequences. They seem to operate from their emotional base, but never insert any logic or common sense, careful consideration, or intelligence.



If you think you are saving the animals lives - think again, you are as wrong as you can possibly be. If we stop eating meat and animals products there will be many millions of animals that will be left to die. They won't be killed humanely they will just be left to die. There will be several milliion people who will be left without a means of making a living and you will have to support those people.



The cute little lambs, calves, chicks, pigs will all die - just because the vegetarians felt sorry for them. Use your heads folks."



What would you respond to that? Here's what I said but I don't think it will be enough to satisfy this person.

"Everyone has their own opinions and personal convictions. Vegetarians can be just as healthy, if not healthier than omnivores. This is a decision I've made for myself, but thanks for your input."
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#2 Old 05-03-2009, 07:37 PM
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Okay, this whole "battle" between omnis and vegetarians will never end. It's pointless to talk to someone who is so completely ignorant and close minded. I'm so speechless I don't even know what to say to that lol.
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#3 Old 05-03-2009, 07:42 PM
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Wow, that really is harsh. Sometimes it takes a while to see peoples true colors. Sad as it may be, people tend to rely on what they think that they know yet do not consider other peoples feelings or their wisdom and most of them will never change but some of them will. I would be willing to bet they if they were in a chicken coup with their lips clipped off that they would change their minds, no?
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#4 Old 05-03-2009, 07:55 PM
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I honestly don't understand why people always want to argue about things. If somebody wants to be a vegetarian, let them be. You should definitely not call an entire group of people unintelligent. I am kind of upset by the way they put it.
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#5 Old 05-03-2009, 07:57 PM
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It's the old, if we don't eat them they'll get out of hand or die a horrible death argument. Worst logic ever.



I had this one pulled on me by an otherwise very bright individual once. It took me half an hour to close my gaping mouth in disbelief.
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#6 Old 05-03-2009, 08:01 PM
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I would laugh. Hard.



Seriously though, I'm sorry this person has been so incredibly rude to you. Her "response" is crazy and is very poorly though out- which is the exact thing she claims about vegetarians... too funny.



The world isn't going vegetarian overnight. As we reduce our demand for animals, less will be bred- not "left to die". How ridiculous. The conditions in which the animals are raised are horrid. There's no denying that anymore- people know this. So the best choice is to not support it. As omnivores, we are perfectly capable of thriving on a plant based diet. Her claims are the emotion based ones that lack any sort of thought or consideration. Set her straight
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#7 Old 05-03-2009, 08:02 PM
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wow. just wow. that belongs in the "stupid things omnivores say" thread
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#8 Old 05-03-2009, 08:05 PM
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Ok, I went back and said.

"I do not expect everyone to stop eating meat. That would be naive. Nor do I think I will make any sort of dent in the meat industry by stopping. I will however feel better about myself by not supporting the suffering and murder of animals."

And they said.

"That is the new age philosophy, I guess. We just say that is what they want to do so no one is supposed to point out the contra arguments. You'all can support the practice, but I cannot express my opinion? Hmmmm. I am as strongly anti-vegetarian as Pam Anderson is pro-vegetarian.



I personally, in my 69 years of life with 50 of it as an adult have never seen a healthy energetic vegetarian. The two I hired in my business, I had to let go because they didn't have the energy to get the job done and they were out sick a lot.



Every vegetarian accelerates the demise of animals."


I'm not even going to try here, they aren't going to listen to me.
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#9 Old 05-03-2009, 08:30 PM
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Google "factory farming" then press the "images" tab. Post that - picture after picture of factory farming horror. If freak thinks there's anything humane about that, that's on them. That's where 98% of meat/dairy/eggs comes from.



Post

http://www.whyvegan.com

http://www.factoryfarming.com

http://www.meetyourmeat.com

http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/earthlings.php



If someone wants to keep their eyes shut closed, it tells you who they are. That's the kind of person who would have been a "good German" or even an SS officer; someone who willingly profited from slavery, or a slaveholder.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#10 Old 05-03-2009, 08:33 PM
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HAHAHAHA



I'm sorry, but that guy is saying some pretty idiotic things.



Yeah, there are plenty of unhealthy vegetarians, who don't actively try and get all their nutrional needs, but plenty of people are healthy and succesful individuals.



Maybe you should point out to him that the cancer, obesity and heart disease rates in vegetarians and vegans alike is something like 9x less than that of meat eaters. Or just ignore him, he seems very set in his ways.



Either way, I'm sorry someone made such harsh remarks on your descion. I personally think you're doing a marvolous thing
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#11 Old 05-03-2009, 08:34 PM
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I'm really sorry that happened to you. I think it's probably best just to ignore it and move on. If you feel what you're doing is right for you then it's really none of their business anyway. *hugs*
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#12 Old 05-03-2009, 08:37 PM
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No way, don't move on. You're both on-line, you have access to posting Earthlings, Meet Your Meat, pages of factory farming images, etc. Post them so there's never an opportunity for that person or on-lookers to pretend they don't know what's happening again. They can face their own apathy or evilness.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#13 Old 05-03-2009, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

No way, don't move on. You're both on-line, you have access to posting Earthlings, Meet Your Meat, pages of factory farming images, etc. Post them so there's never an opportunity for that person or on-lookers to pretend they don't know what's happening again. They can face their own apathy or evilness.



Amazing idea!
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#14 Old 05-03-2009, 08:43 PM
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people are so ignorant! isnt it infuriating? i agree, you should at least try to stand your ground because everything they are saying is just flat out wrong, but if it's too upsetting just ignore them and know that you are not alone!
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#15 Old 05-03-2009, 09:37 PM
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"I personally, in my 69 years of life with 50 of it as an adult have never seen a healthy energetic vegetarian. The two I hired in my business, I had to let go because they didn't have the energy to get the job done and they were out sick a lot."



Inform the poster that some Buddhists have been vegetarian for centuries. And they haven't died off from malnutrition. Vegetarianism isn't New Age at all, it's a dietary practice that dates back to like the 1800s, which says to me it's been around longer than that poster. I would take 200 years of history over a 69 year old's small experiences.
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#16 Old 05-03-2009, 09:52 PM
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Sometimes, you just have to walk away. This may be one of those times.
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#17 Old 05-03-2009, 10:27 PM
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he wasn't an adult till 19? i was an adult before him. hahahahahahar.



and he needed to let us know how many of his 69 years of his life he wasn't a child for, why? i'm so confused.



do you have a smiley on this parrot forum? i'd just respond to all of his comments with that. or maybe the one. and you don't need to say more than that, really. maybe he'll implode if you're lucky.
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#18 Old 05-03-2009, 10:46 PM
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please copy/paste this post over there exactly as follows, and please attribute it to me(I'm rather blunt and somewhat silly, so I don't think you want to take credit for things I say lol). I am not going to register for that stupid forum just to post this. thanks.



Quote:

That is the new age philosophy, I guess.



there's nothing "new age" about it. vegetarianism predates you, everyone you know, and everyone THEY knew. it's not some new fad diet that just popped up out of nowhere in the 70s.



Quote:
We just say that is what they want to do so no one is supposed to point out the contra arguments. You'all can support the practice, but I cannot express my opinion?



you can express whatever opinion you want to. have fun. I'll continue to laugh when you put forth a ridiculous argument. which is, of course, my right.



and we can still not eat meat, and expect you to do nothing except complain about it.



Quote:
Hmmmm. I am as strongly anti-vegetarian as Pam Anderson is pro-vegetarian.



good for you. here's a piece of grilled parrot meat as your prize, enjoy.



Quote:
I personally, in my 69 years of life with 50 of it as an adult have never seen a healthy energetic vegetarian. The two I hired in my business, I had to let go because they didn't have the energy to get the job done and they were out sick a lot.



this is easily the largest load of bovine manure that I've read in at least 2 weeks.



in my 28 years of life, with 10 of them as an adult, I've met more healthy, energetic vegetarians, AND vegans, than I can count. and I have yet to *ever* come across a weak, frail permanently sick vegetarian. anywhere.



Personally, I'm 5'10, 190lbs of healthy, energetic, sexy, broad-shouldered, woman-pleasing, basketball-playing, active-social-life-having, video-gaming 28 year-old black vegetarian man. nothing frail or sickly about me, champ.



if you've never seen a healthy, energetic vegetarian in 69 years, here is a novel idea for you: try opening your eyes for a few minutes. you'll actually see things better that way.



I'm sorry that the two guys you hired didn't pay enough attention to their diet to make sure they got everything they needed. But for you to project their predicament on every vegetarian is both ludicrous and ridiculously funny to me. most vegetarians I know, actually care about their health.



meat being a life-or-death requirement for healthy living is an outdated concept only put forth by the meat industry to gullible, dependent people who are not capable of thinking for and/or taking care of themselves. these same kinds of people blame tv and video games for not raising their children correctly rather than shouldering the responsibility of a parent.



also, not eating meat = hastening the demise of animals? that is such a ridiculous statement that I literally laughed at my screen for like 5 minutes. thank you, I needed the comic relief. if there is less demand for Meat, less animal will be bred. Mothers will birth animals less often when they are allowed to do so naturally, and are not artificially inseminated or otherwise forced to adhere to a faster, more rigid birthing schedule/routine.



just stick to saying "Meat tastes Good." It's a much better argument than the laughable one you are putting forth.



fact is that I, for one, am not trying to convert people from eating meat. if you want to eat a cow's ass, then that's your choice. I've just decided that *I* won't do it. that's my choice, and my right as a free human. either respect that decision like I respect your right to eat whatever you like, or do something about it.



for someone who complains about people who "operate from their emotional base, but never insert any logic or common sense, careful consideration, or intelligence," I have yet to see any logic, common sense, careful consideration, or intelligence in anything I've read coming from you on the subject of vegetarianism. all I've seen here basically amounts to "grrrrrr vegetarian must insult them grrrrrrr they are weird grrrrrr i hates them, i hates them forever grrrrrr eet more chikin grrrr"



but thanks for the laugh anyway. after a long day of serving ammonia-basted chicken to people who pay absolutely no attention to what kinds of stuff they put in their bodies but wear surgical masks on the train because the news told them to be scared of swine flu, i could use a good chuckle.
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#19 Old 05-03-2009, 10:56 PM
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It is hilariously ironic how poor of an argument this person has for someone who claims that vegetarians "never insert any logic or common sense, careful consideration, or intelligence [into their arguments]."



Your response was perfect. It would be useless to argue further with someone who will probably continue to ignore any opposing views.
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#20 Old 05-03-2009, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allison4 View Post

"I'll have to admit right up front that I just don't get the urge some have to go vegetarian or even worse vegan. We humans are omnivors not vegetarians. We're built that way just like many other animals. It seems that vegetarian activists never consider the long term results or the unintended consequences. They seem to operate from their emotional base, but never insert any logic or common sense, careful consideration, or intelligence.



If you think you are saving the animals lives - think again, you are as wrong as you can possibly be. If we stop eating meat and animals products there will be many millions of animals that will be left to die. They won't be killed humanely they will just be left to die. There will be several milliion people who will be left without a means of making a living and you will have to support those people.



The cute little lambs, calves, chicks, pigs will all die - just because the vegetarians felt sorry for them. Use your heads folks."




While you may argue we may be omnivores, that does nothing to prove I am an able-bodied, healthy vegetarian- abstaining from rotting animal flesh. As to what unknown hazards await me, I defer to my 20 and 30+ year vegetarians who, amazingly can outrun a meat eater their age. But I digress...



As to the animals themselves- yes- I am literally saving animals- - I am lowering the demand for meat by an incredibly small degree. And just as trivial as that seems to you, when you realize there's millions of us doing the same thing only then do you realize this is not a fad but a movement.



And this is a good thing- if everyone went veg tomorrow, there'd be the animal holocaust you describe. But since we're a small inevitable group do you realize us Veggie eaters are taking over one person at a time, one year at a time, over time- until your way of thinking is simply unsustainable and illogical.



So as someone who understands man's role in the order of things, I will leave a door open to you- for when you come crawling to me for answers for your failed reality whenever you age and wise up sufficiently to realize your world is not sustainable.
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#21 Old 05-04-2009, 07:26 AM
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Sorry to hear someone belittle your decision. To me, that says volumes about the author - especially the bitter tone. A friend once said that 99% of what people say is about them even if they are talking about others. Just listen to the fear behind this person's words. I find that extremely helpful in dealing with ignorance and small-mindedness.



I am not even sure how I would respond other than just stating my truth, providing some evidence, and then understanding that this person isn't really interested in what you have to say except to argue. Seems to me that this person is quite attached to their views and fear-based mentality.



Know that you've got support, and most importantly, at the end of the day, you can look into the mirror and know you are doing what is right for you.
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#22 Old 05-04-2009, 08:26 AM
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Ooo I had dinner with one of those strapping young omnivores this weekend! Meat and simple carbs only, no fruits or veggies, those are for the weak!! He's about 160 lbs overweight and just looks ill. He has breathing difficulties. Good think he keeps pounding back that meat, that's just the ticket to good health! Wouldn't want to become weak like us!

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#23 Old 05-04-2009, 08:34 AM
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The moderators ended up erasing her posts because there are rules against flaming and bashing on this board. Everyone else is very nice and just told me to get plenty of protein from other sources which I already knew.
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#24 Old 05-04-2009, 08:50 AM
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...lots of awesome stuff.



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#25 Old 05-04-2009, 09:35 AM
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The moderators ended up erasing her posts because there are rules against flaming and bashing on this board.



awwww. but I put a lot of time and effort into that post i made! *cry*
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#26 Old 05-04-2009, 10:39 AM
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awwww. but I put a lot of time and effort into that post i made! *cry*



I appreciated it. You made lol quite a few times and my coworkers were looking at me like I was crazy.
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#27 Old 05-04-2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
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awwww. but I put a lot of time and effort into that post i made! *cry*



And you gave me quite a few things to say if anyone else tries to argue with me about it.
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#28 Old 05-04-2009, 01:03 PM
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I wish people could just be tolerant, sometimes.
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#29 Old 05-04-2009, 02:55 PM
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Intolerance speaks volumes. It's always interesting to me when people become hostile against vegetarians. I think to myself, are they upset because it challenges their beliefs, or do they know on some level that there's merit to vegetarianism, and they're mad at themselves?



If it were truly "nutty" or unimportant, I'd expect apathy, not hostility.



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I wish people could just be tolerant, sometimes.

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#30 Old 05-04-2009, 03:14 PM
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The audacity of some people!!!! Omnis do make me laugh sometimes but this person seems just flat out rude.

How can you eat anything with eyes? ~ Will Kellogg
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