Considering cutting out meat, new to this - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 12-01-2003, 04:04 PM
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Hi,

I've started beoming interested in a vegan diet. But let me first tell you my background if you don't mind. Obviously I've been born and raised in the country and I've been raised on meat,corn and potatoes for most of my life. I'm also a mormon or LDS, you may be familiar with us. Well as I've gotten more religious I've been focusing my attention on something we call the Word of Wisdom. Long story short it means no alchohol, tobacco, and tea. But there are some other things in it = on what to eat. Basically it says to eat a lot of grains, ruffage, fruit, stuff like that. But to eat meat sparingly. To be exact to only eat meat in times of winter, famine, and exess hunger. This was written in the 1800's before you could go to the supermarket in the winter and buy all the fruits and veggies that you wanted.



Well at first I started looking into it for a way to loose weight. But after about 3 days of hardly eating any meat and really stacking up on the fruits and veggies my energy and how I just generally felt went thru the roof! And I've noticed it's not so bad not eating meat.



My main concerns is what kind of suppliments will I need to take. Or what food alternatives can I look into for calcium and vitamin B-12. What other vitamins could I become dificient in?

Also how much protien should I get each day? Using fitday.com I can see I've gotten about 67gr of protien from eating beans, nuts, and ruffage today. I think this is adequate. And how much variety could I get from a vegan diet.



I'm sorry if these questions have been asked hundreds of times.
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#2 Old 12-01-2003, 04:19 PM
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No need to apologize for asking questions! This is a major change and even long-time vegetarians have questions now and again.



As for protein, as long as you eat a varied diet and get enough calories, don't worry about it. You'll get plenty. Whole grains have protein. Beans have protein. Broccoli has protein.
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#3 Old 12-01-2003, 04:24 PM
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Sorry--didn't answer all of your questions. I'm at work and have been recently alerted to a crisis. If I have time later, I'll post more. Also, try checking out the healthy living thread.



Good luck!!
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#4 Old 12-01-2003, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Boy View Post

My main concerns is what kind of suppliments will I need to take. Or what food alternatives can I look into for calcium and vitamin B-12. What other vitamins could I become dificient in? Also how much protien should I get each day? Using fitday.com I can see I've gotten about 67gr of protien from eating beans, nuts, and ruffage today. I think this is adequate. And how much variety could I get from a vegan diet.



I'm sorry if these questions have been asked hundreds of times.



First of all, congrats on discovering what so many of us have already found, and making the decision to go all the way.



In addition to the obvious nutrients, we are becoming more aware (all people) of the importance of essential fatty acids, and the benefits of consuming them in the proper ratio.



I have the beginnings of some nutritional information from studies posted at my site:



http://home.pacbell.net/epski/vegan



Also, visit the following pages. After that, check around VB some more, because we have definitely addressed this issue numerous times, and you are bound to find through the search engine additional threads linking to valuable resources that will provide you with enough information to shop and eat with confidence!



http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/protein.html

http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/calcium.html

http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/b12.html

http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/e...tty_acids.html



There are other sites besides PCRM that will provide you with similar info, but this should get you started.
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#5 Old 12-01-2003, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Boy View Post

Hi,

I've started beoming interested in a vegan diet. But let me first tell you my background if you don't mind. Obviously I've been born and raised in the country and I've been raised on meat,corn and potatoes for most of my life. I'm also a mormon or LDS, you may be familiar with us. Well as I've gotten more religious I've been focusing my attention on something we call the Word of Wisdom. Long story short it means no alchohol, tobacco, and tea. But there are some other things in it = on what to eat. Basically it says to eat a lot of grains, ruffage, fruit, stuff like that. But to eat meat sparingly. To be exact to only eat meat in times of winter, famine, and exess hunger. This was written in the 1800's before you could go to the supermarket in the winter and buy all the fruits and veggies that you wanted.



The LDS, we'll deal with that at another time... Although I have to ask are you a recent convert? I was aware of of the no caffeine, alchohol and tabacco. From what I understand it is against morman doctrine to alter one's mind. The dietary rules sound vaguely like the fasting rules for the Eastern Orthodox Church. In a nutshell EO's fast on Wednesdays and Fridays throughout the calendar year. Abstaining from animal products, dairy and sometimes wine and olive oil. Different times of the year require different restrictions.



At any rate, good for you for making this discovery.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Boy View Post

Well at first I started looking into it for a way to loose weight. But after about 3 days of hardly eating any meat and really stacking up on the fruits and veggies my energy and how I just generally felt went thru the roof! And I've noticed it's not so bad not eating meat.



Well, I have some bad news. Don't be a veg*n soley to lose weight. It's a lifestyle and not a diet. Become a vegetarian because of your deep held beliefs and for your long term health. Really take inventory on why you want to change your lifestyle. Make cutting out meat a process, you will find that not only will you react to the change in yourself but the people you know and love will react to you too. Not all of these reactions will be good, when I say learning process I mean it will be a trial. I also suggest visiting your local library and browse the shelves for cookbooks. It's easy to get a burning start but peter out due to lack of variety.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Boy View Post

My main concerns is what kind of suppliments will I need to take. Or what food alternatives can I look into for calcium and vitamin B-12. What other vitamins could I become dificient in?



Supplements- a good multivitamin will do your body good and MAYBE a B-12 supplement. Most muliti's 100% of the RDA for B-12 and calcium. Also note that is NEARLY impossible if you are in good health to be deficiant of a vitamin or mineral. You have eat badly for a long time. Vegan diets tend to be lower in iron and fatty acids than thier omni counterparts. Spinach and fortified whole grain cereals have plenty of iron. Walnuts and flaxseed are rich in Essential fatty acids. Soymilk and other other plant based milks are usually fortified with calcium. Broccoli, deep green veggies, sea vegetables and fortified orange juice are other good sources of calcium. A veggie source of B-12 is Marmite.



Here's a link to the ADA's position on a vegetarian diet. http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/adapaper.htm





Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Boy View Post

Also how much protien should I get each day? Using fitday.com I can see I've gotten about 67gr of protien from eating beans, nuts, and ruffage today. I think this is adequate. And how much variety could I get from a vegan diet.



Protein should be the least of your worries. 2-3 servings of beans, nuts and meat subsitutes will give you PLENTY of protein. 60-100gr is suffient intake. Variety is infinate with a vegan diet. Again, check out some recipes online and start looking at cookbooks.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Country Boy View Post

I'm sorry if these questions have been asked hundreds of times.



Ahh no worries. I LOVE to answer questions.
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#6 Old 12-01-2003, 05:42 PM
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Hi CountryBoy,



I was raised in the country too - we raised our own meat and we ate a lot of it believing it to be good for us. Kudos to you for taking on such a big life change as laying off the meat. You think that's hard try going vegan. No, really you should try it I'm working on going 50% raw now - and its tougher than I expected but I feel great (once I let the cheese go - it was all smooth sailing from there



My suggestion is hit the library and scour the bookstores. I have apx 25 books on non-dairy, vegan, and raw food prep and info from the library (God bless the public library system.)



I'm concerned about the "health" balance part too. A small book called "Simply Vegan" by Debra Wasserman has a great section in it that covers the big questions on nutrition.



Calcium = Calcium fortified soy products, collard greens , turnip greens, tofu, kale, okra, sesame seeds, bok shoy, figs, tahini, almonds, broccoli



Iron = Soybeans, blackstrap molasses, lentils, quinoa, kidney beans, lima, black and other beans, swiss chard, prune juice, spinach, beet greens, cashews, bulgur, apricots



Zinc = grains, legumes, and nuts



Riboflavin = mushrooms, green leafy veggies, wheat germ, soy beans.



Vit B6 = brown rice, chick peas, oats, soybeans, potatoes.



Vitamin D = Sunshine on your skin, fortified breakfast cereals, soy and rice milks, fatty fish, egg yolk (Vit D does not occur naturally in meat or dairy.)



B12 = Fortified soy milks, Grape-Nuts cereal, Red Star Vegetarian Support Formula or T-6635+, and suppliments.



Protein = Soy, Tofu, lentils, beans, beans, beans, quinoa, nuts, nutbutters, spinach, seitam, broccoli, almonds, sunflower seeds, whole wheat bread, brown rice.



These are not in order of value - just a list of where to look for nutrients.



I grew up believing that iron came from meat and protien too - my grandmother calls whole milk "Vitamin D Milk." She doesn't drink anything but whole milk because that is the one the dairy puts the big red D on - we have all been misled when it comes to nutrition.



I'm nearly 40 and I find myself studying about food - an activity I have been practicing my whole life - almost blindly! Finally, I'm getting my facts straight.



Best of luck to you in this life change - may you be blessed with excellent health and enjoy every minute of it. All the LDS ppl I know are really cool.



The VeggieBoards are a fantastic resource and a really friendly bunch - I love it here.



BTW, why no tea - is it the caffeine? I love my green tea.
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#7 Old 12-01-2003, 05:43 PM
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Thank you for your quick responces.



M&B. I've been a member all my life. But I was inactive during my tennage years (crazy, pary,party, party!). After I grew up, got married and had children, then I started coming back to church and changing my ways.

Actually we fast 1 day a month (24hrs) from all food,water,anything, health permitting of course. A pregnant person, a diabetic, someone with an illness, etc. does not fast. It's on the first Sunday of the month unless there is a General or Stake confrence then it is on the following sunday.



It's not caffene that the WOW is against, although it's not good for you, it's coffee and oriental tea (herbal tea is OK) that we don't partake in. And I wouldn't say we don't take things that alter the mind. Because we take perscriptions and over the counter medicines for medical reasons. But it is true we do not take things that alter the mind for pleasure.



And I'm not becoming veg for weight loss. Although that's what lead me to it. It's for how great I felt after trying it and religious reasons, and we've already talked about those. Thanks!
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#8 Old 12-01-2003, 05:56 PM
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Raindrop & M&B,



Sorry, but I need to make a correction of your mention of spinach as an iron source. Spinach, as well as swiss chard, beet greens and rhubarb cannot be counted on as an iron source because of a high oxolate presence which binds the mineral and inhibits its absorbtion. Calcium in these vegetables is also bound by oxolates, so don't count on them for that, either.'



CountryBoy, welcome to VB! I am newbie too (but not a new vegetarian)



Being a veg*n is a journey, an exciting endless learning process! If there is one book that I highly recommend to anyone, veg*n or not, it is "Becoming Vegan" by Brenda Davis, R.D. and Vesanto Melina, M.S., R.D. It's highly educational and objective.
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#9 Old 12-01-2003, 07:05 PM
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Welcome to VB, Country Boy. When I became a vegetarian many years ago, I not only found a wonderful difference in my body, but also in how I felt about life and myself. Good luck to you!
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#10 Old 12-01-2003, 07:20 PM
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Welcome to VB, Country Boy.
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#11 Old 12-01-2003, 07:26 PM
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welcome to VB countryboy



you've certainly come to the right place to ask your questions



i don't have alot to add but wanted to add to the recommendation of checking out the PCRM website as they have brilliant health related info. gotta trust the doc right? a vegan doc that is



hope you stick around and learn alot.
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#12 Old 12-01-2003, 07:40 PM
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I see that others beat me to answering your question, so I'll just add that www.veganessentials.com is a fantastic source for vegan vitamins and other hard-to-find products.



Congratulations on your new-found veganism!
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#13 Old 12-01-2003, 07:43 PM
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Hi and welcome!



I'm going to let everyone else deal with the nutrition stuff -- they've given you solid info and links that I doubt I could add to. The only other suggestion I'd have is to go out and get some veg cookbooks.



I'm actually curious about the LDS thing. My ex-roommates (all 6 of them) are all very practicing Mormons, and not a single one of them has fasted or even mentioned fasting once a month. I just find that interesting. Is it based in one of your doctrines -- the Pearl of Great Price, maybe? (That was wild guessing on my part.) And do you have a reference for where it says not to eat meat except in times of need? I'm mostly curious because I think it'd be fun to bring up with my Mormon friends. We're always nit-piciking each other's religions when we hang out... a bad habit we started over a decade ago in junior high. All in good fun, of course.



Good luck with your diet transitioning. You'll find tons of support here.
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#14 Old 12-01-2003, 07:48 PM
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Welcome, you'll love being a veggie! It can be a pain, but if you stick with whole food it shouldn't be too hard. It's when you get into packaged/convenience food that you get into trouble! Lol, but I'm sure you'll do fine. I can't really add anything to what's already been said, though, everyone seems to have covered all the bases. Good luck!
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#15 Old 12-01-2003, 07:51 PM
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Hi and welcome.



I'm new here too and this place is great for learning.
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#16 Old 12-01-2003, 08:39 PM
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Yeah, in follow up to my post, spinach isn't quite as powerful a health food as it traditionally was made out to be, oddly.



Second, most multi-vitamins I've seen are actually low in calcium. Make sure you're getting enough in your diet, or make sure you take a separate calcium supplement, if necessary.
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#17 Old 12-01-2003, 08:43 PM
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Welcome, brother! You have a veg-head Mormon sister here.



It sounds like the amount of protein you're eating is more than sufficient. Everybody else has posted great info and some good websites, so I won't add much more. Transitioning to being veg*n can take a while, but to me it was worth it. Eight years later, I'm finding myself slowly going vegan and loving it. I'm definitely much healthier than I was before eating meat.
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#18 Old 12-02-2003, 08:39 AM
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Wow thanks everybody! What a warm welcome.



Mskedi, well since you asked I'll give it to you. It's found in D&C 89:









10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man



11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.



12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;



13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.



14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;



15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger. (meaning meat, country boy)



16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground



17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.



18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;



19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;



20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.



21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.



I've only posted the last part pertaining to food. I hope you enjoyed it. And yes your friends should be fasting on the first Sunday of the month. The law of fast has been called "the hated principle" in the past. Yes it is a pain, but worth it .



Our Father in Heaven was pretty specific on when to eat meat. The part about cold and winter dosn't really apply to todays time in America and other developed countries because we can buy ruffage year round at our grocery stores. And as far as I can see there is not a famine. You're friend will probably point out that it says use meat sparingly and will ignore the rest. This is the common habbit. But we have not been commanded to not eat meat so this part of section 89 is open to personall interpritation. And as far as I read it and feel about it, I shouldn't really be eating meat right now.
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#19 Old 12-02-2003, 09:12 AM
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Thanks, CountryBoy. That is precicely what I was looking for. And I appreciate you typing it all out, since I don't have a copy of the Doctrines & Covenents here. (In fact, the only book of Mormon I have is in Icelandic, which, considering who my roommates were, is pretty amazing. One of them picked it up for me while he was on his mission. Another brought me back a Bible in Spanish -- a language I can actually read -- that I get a lot more use out of.)



There's a thread around here somewhere about Christianity & vegetarianism that, while it's not getting a ton of posts or anything, you might be interested in checking out.



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#20 Old 12-02-2003, 09:24 AM
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No prob. copy and paste!
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#21 Old 12-02-2003, 09:34 AM
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I don't understand why you wouldn't drink tea. If caffeine was an issue, you could always drink caffeine-free of decaffeinated beverages.



By the way, welcome, Country Boy!
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#22 Old 12-02-2003, 09:47 AM
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Artichoke47,



Well without getting into a big religious conversation (I really don't feel like doing that) let me just say. Caffeine is recognized as not being good for you. But it is not known if that is the reason not to drink tea and coffee. If that were the case chocolate and other things would be no,no's too. A missionary told be once it may be because of the tanic acid in tea. It will eat a sole of a shoe.



Any other questions and I can direct you to a great website or I can arrange for a couple of nice young men to come over to your house and visit with you . Have a great day.
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#23 Old 12-02-2003, 11:25 AM
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I don't know if this has been mentioned but molasses is an excellent source of iron. Taken from this page http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/iron.htm (scroll down to list)





Soybeans, cooked 1 cup 8.8 mg

Blackstrap molasses 2 Tbsp 7.0 mg

Lentils, cooked 1 cup 6.6 mg



For just 2 Tbsp of molasses you get over half the typical adult male's iron needs in a day. So 4 Tbsp's would cover things :-)





--------------

" spinach as an iron source."

-------------



I've heard boiling spinach will cause the iron to be more usable somehow. COuld be useful in a soup.
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#24 Old 12-02-2003, 11:33 AM
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MMmmmm spinach..I take raw spinach, wash it off and then cook it in a pot on the stove w/chopped onions and soy butter. I use seasoning salt and garlic powder too. Then just when I'm ready to eat the greens, I pour on a little vinegar. yummy!
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#25 Old 12-02-2003, 12:02 PM
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--------------

" spinach as an iron source."

-------------



I've heard boiling spinach will cause the iron to be more usable somehow. COuld be useful in a soup.



According to my nutritionist, the iron is not usable even if you cook it. In fact, cooking spinach actually changes its chemical composition, causing the iron-binding oxolates to crystallize, which can contribute to kidney stones. Therefore, it is best to eat spinach raw.
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#26 Old 12-02-2003, 02:03 PM
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First of all, welcome to VB, Country Boy!



The others have answered your questions already, but I wanted to add that often soymilk is fortified with calcium, B12 and vitamin D. Check the labels of those locally available



Spinach seems to be getting a bad rap in this thread, but it's not as bad as it sounds. Yes, you can't count on it as a calcium or iron source, but it has a lot of other beneficial nutrients, especially folate. I think more folate is absorbed if you eat it raw.



Blackstrap molasses is a great source of many minerals, especially iron, and it also has quite a lot of calcium.



Best of luck in becoming vegan - my advice, if you want to stick at it long term, is don't stress out about it, everyone makes mistakes, even those who've been vegan for years. And remember VB is always here if you need advice or support



I second the recommendation of 'Becoming Vegan'. This book was invaluable to me when I was transitioning, and I still reference it regularly.



Once again, welcome to VB and I hope we'll see you around
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#27 Old 12-02-2003, 02:28 PM
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Just wanted to second veggiekitten on the spinach...
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#28 Old 12-02-2003, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Artichoke47 View Post

I don't understand why you wouldn't drink tea. If caffeine was an issue, you could always drink caffeine-free of decaffeinated beverages.



Like Country Boy said, there are possibly other things other than caffeine in coffee and tea that are toxic or in some way harmful to the body.



For me, it's enough to see how easy it is to become addicted to either coffee or tea, caffeine or no (even in decaf there's a small amount of caffeine leftover--and there's the whole attachment some people have to their "comforting" cup o' joe/tea). I know too many people that simply can't get through their day without it. I remember reading somewhere that caffeine is more addictive than nicotine, though I don't remember where or know if it's accurate or not.
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