Vegetarians and Vegans - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 Old 10-07-2008, 01:43 AM
Newbie
 
mamunia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 8
Hi - I'm new to this board although I've been vegetarian for many many years. I belong to some London veggie groups. One of the veggie groups also has a lot of vegans belonging which is great. If they arrange a meal, veggies respect them and only have vegan food. My problem is that there seems to be a huge divide between the vegans and veggies. The vegans seem to preach an awful lot and the divide seems bigger between vegans and veggies than between ve*ans and carnivores! It all becomes rather unpleasant at times. Has anyone else come across this?
mamunia is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 Old 10-07-2008, 01:51 AM
Kiz
Veggie Regular
 
Kiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,132
Welcome to Veggieboards, you have described it perfectly!

Love the post? Why not buy the T-shirt!
http://www.kiz-shop.de/index.php?page=categorie&cat=8
http://www.kiz-shop.de/index.php?page=product&info=94
Kiz is offline  
#3 Old 10-07-2008, 09:07 AM
Veggie Regular
 
rainforests1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,204
Welcome. I don't notice it, but I don't belong to any local veggie groups so it's hard for me to say.
rainforests1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#4 Old 10-07-2008, 09:09 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Brandon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 18,833
Speaking only for our local Oklahoma VB group, I can say we all get along very well and there are vegans and vegetarians both. Everybody is respectful of one another and we all have a blast.



The only place I really see friction is on the internet.
Brandon is offline  
#5 Old 10-07-2008, 09:24 AM
Veggie Regular
 
nwysca's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 250
I don't belong to any veg*an groups **jealous!!** but I notice it here online. I think the issue might be that vegans tend to think vegetarians are "almost there" and would be easier to convert than an omni! For me, I'm vegan and I'm happy to meet any veg*ans at all! Almost everyone I know is an omni, and I am so happy to be with anyone who doesn't eat meat! Maybe this is also because I don't know any vegans..
nwysca is offline  
#6 Old 10-07-2008, 09:27 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Tofu-N-Sprouts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

Welcome to Veggieboards, you have described it perfectly!



My thoughts exactly. Welcome to VeggieBoards.
Tofu-N-Sprouts is offline  
#7 Old 10-07-2008, 09:32 AM
Veggie Regular
 
nwysca's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 250
Oops! I forgot to say Welcome to VB!!!
nwysca is offline  
#8 Old 10-07-2008, 09:45 AM
Veggie Regular
 
ajax13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 928
Welcome to VB!



To answer your question about the rift between vegans and vegetarians... could it have something to do with ethical vegans not understanding why ethical vegetarians would only go partway towards a cruelty-free diet? Barring any nutritional requirements, why would an ethical vegetarian stop at abstaining from meat but continue to consume dairy or eggs? Perhaps vegans sense that it's often habit and pleasure that prevent the vegetarian from becoming vegan, and this often leads to vegan frustration.



Does this mean that the vegetarian doesn't deserve some credit for "moving in the right direction"? It should not mean that, but it seems silly to me that vegans should never point out to a vegetarian that he/she could move further towards a cruelty-free life. There are, of course, respectful ways and not so respectful ways to point this out.



Whether the vegetarian believes that, in theory, there is nothing wrong with using animals for their milk or eggs as long as they are treated well and are not killed, the reality of present-day agribusiness is that milk and eggs involve much suffering and death.
ajax13 is offline  
#9 Old 10-07-2008, 10:03 AM
Beginner
 
:Truth is evil-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 105
I can't say for sure, because I'm not a vegan, but I think some vegans may view vegetarians a bit like vegetarians view pescatarians. Like they've not finished what they've started. And like when omnis say they love animals, but then eat meat, maybe vegans think it's like that when we say we care but use shampoo that has been tested on animals, or eat eggs.



And now I feel bad. I -will- find vegan shampoo.
:Truth is evil- is offline  
#10 Old 10-07-2008, 10:36 AM
Newbie
 
thalestral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajax13 View Post

To answer your question about the rift between vegans and vegetarians... could it have something to do with ethical vegans not understanding why ethical vegetarians would only go partway towards a cruelty-free diet? Barring any nutritional requirements, why would an ethical vegetarian stop at abstaining from meat but continue to consume dairy or eggs? Perhaps vegans sense that it's often habit and pleasure that prevent the vegetarian from becoming vegan, and this often leads to vegan frustration.





Quote:
Originally Posted by :Truth is evil- View Post

I can't say for sure, because I'm not a vegan, but I think some vegans may view vegetarians a bit like vegetarians view pescatarians.







Welcome to VB!
thalestral is offline  
#11 Old 10-07-2008, 02:08 PM
Newbie
 
mamunia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 8
Thanks for all your welcomes! It's good to get different views. War has often broken out on the boards I'm on causing quite a few vegetarians I know just to back off. Quite honestly, I'm not a "step" away from veganism, it's the way I want to live my life. It can get very frustrating.
mamunia is offline  
#12 Old 10-07-2008, 02:09 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Gita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mexas
Posts: 1,610
The bar is kind of high.
Gita is offline  
#13 Old 10-07-2008, 03:13 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Irizary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamunia View Post

Thanks for all your welcomes! It's good to get different views. War has often broken out on the boards I'm on causing quite a few vegetarians I know just to back off. Quite honestly, I'm not a "step" away from veganism, it's the way I want to live my life. It can get very frustrating.



Welcome to VB.



I think the reason for one being a veg*n makes the difference in peoples' responses.



If one is a vegetarian for health reasons, that's one thing. If one is a vegetarian for ethical reasons, ethical vegans will question the eggs/dairy, because of the ethical issues with commercial dairy and eggs.



My recommendation is to not court conflict, if that's what you're trying to avoid. I mostly don't know or remember who's vegetarian or vegan on here because most people don't bring it up or if they do they're not defensive about it - it's just matter-of-fact (like, "I'm a vegetarian, what kinds of things can I order at a restaurant?" vs. something that's guaranteed to cause conflict like, "Why are vegans so damn preachy?" etc). If you look for reasons to be offended, and comment on it, and make posts about it, you will probably find and create conflict. Otherwise, mostly vegans and vegetarians can peacefully coexist here

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

Irizary is offline  
#14 Old 10-07-2008, 03:18 PM
Bof
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamunia View Post

Quite honestly, I'm not a "step" away from veganism, it's the way I want to live my life.



Quite honestly, you are a step away from veganism. You may or may not take that step though.
Bof is offline  
#15 Old 10-07-2008, 04:55 PM
Kiz
Veggie Regular
 
Kiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,132
Well, for that matter, l-o-vegetarians are also a step away from being omnivores. It's just perception, right?

Love the post? Why not buy the T-shirt!
http://www.kiz-shop.de/index.php?page=categorie&cat=8
http://www.kiz-shop.de/index.php?page=product&info=94
Kiz is offline  
#16 Old 10-07-2008, 04:57 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Sevenseas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

Well, for that matter, l-o-vegetarians are also a step away from being omnivores.

Diana would agree with you

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Sevenseas is offline  
#17 Old 10-07-2008, 04:59 PM
Kiz
Veggie Regular
 
Kiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,132
Vegans are a step away from being l-o-vegetarians, too! All this stepping, I'm not co-ordinated, I'm going to trip over my feet soon.

Love the post? Why not buy the T-shirt!
http://www.kiz-shop.de/index.php?page=categorie&cat=8
http://www.kiz-shop.de/index.php?page=product&info=94
Kiz is offline  
#18 Old 10-07-2008, 05:00 PM
Veggie Regular
 
rabid_child's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,282
The only potluck that I've hosted so far (we've got a second coming next month) was attended by vegetarians and vegans (and an omni or two) and we had all the food vegan so it was all inclusive. Everyone gushed over how good the food was, but I don't recall anyone lecturing anyone about anything. It was all very friendly and fun.

http://megatarian.blogspot.com
rabid_child is offline  
#19 Old 10-07-2008, 05:02 PM
Veggie Regular
 
vigilant20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabid_child View Post

The only potluck that I've hosted so far (we've got a second coming next month) was attended by vegetarians and vegans (and an omni or two) and we had all the food vegan so it was all inclusive. Everyone gushed over how good the food was, but I don't recall anyone lecturing anyone about anything. It was all very friendly and fun.



I'd personally call that catering to vegans, not being all inclusive. But whatever.

Lynn

https://www.facebook.com/vigilant20

https://www.facebook.com/FrugalVegetarianRecipes

vigilant20 is offline  
#20 Old 10-07-2008, 05:07 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Sevenseas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by vigilant20 View Post

I'd personally call that catering to vegans, not being all inclusive. But whatever.

Food was offered that was suitable both for vegans and for lacto-ovo-vegetarians. As opposed to an occasion that would exclude lacto-ovo-vegetarians by not offering vegetarian food.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Sevenseas is offline  
#21 Old 10-07-2008, 06:38 PM
Veggie Regular
 
nogardsram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,032
Maybe it's not a vegan vs vegetarian thing. Maybe it's just that some people are confrontational and we should try not to feed stereotypes.

I believe everything.
nogardsram is offline  
#22 Old 10-07-2008, 06:39 PM
Veggie Regular
 
nogardsram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by vigilant20 View Post

I'd personally call that catering to vegans, not being all inclusive. But whatever.



What would you consider being all inclusive? Offering vegetarian food, food that a vegan couldn't eat? How would that be all inclusive? Wouldn't that exclude?

I believe everything.
nogardsram is offline  
#23 Old 10-08-2008, 12:04 AM
Beginner
 
Australien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 147
What strikes me is how fanatical vegans can be when I betya most of them grew up eating flesh, maybe they are just angry at themselves and then project that anger towards others.
Australien is offline  
#24 Old 10-08-2008, 12:05 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Sevenseas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Australien View Post

What strikes me is how fanatical vegans can be when I betya most of them grew up eating flesh, maybe they are just angry at themselves and then project that anger towards others.

Here's another possibility:



maybe, just maybe, the word 'fanatical' is subjective and depends on what ethical or political values the user of that word him/herself has. Calling something fanatical doesn't really convey that much, only that you disagree with someone's approach.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Sevenseas is offline  
#25 Old 10-08-2008, 12:06 AM
Veggie Regular
 
lirpa1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Australien View Post

What strikes me is how fanatical vegans can be when I betya most of them grew up eating flesh, maybe they are just angry at themselves and then project that anger towards others.



well, since u are "vegetarian" did you grow up eating flesh?



I did, but that doesnt mean I do now. I also pooped in my diaper when I was a baby, doesn't mean I do now.



People are allowed to change, and change is often good.
lirpa1 is offline  
#26 Old 10-08-2008, 12:19 AM
Beginner
 
Australien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Here's another possibility:



maybe, just maybe, the word 'fanatical' is subjective and depends on what ethical or political values the user of that word him/herself has. Calling something fanatical doesn't really convey that much, only that you disagree with someone's approach.



another possibility, people have different opinions and there is no right or wrong.
Australien is offline  
#27 Old 10-08-2008, 12:20 AM
Beginner
 
Australien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by lirpa1 View Post

well, since u are "vegetarian" did you grow up eating flesh?



I did, but that doesnt mean I do now. I also pooped in my diaper when I was a baby, doesn't mean I do now.



People are allowed to change, and change is often good.



agreed, are people not free to remain the same?

change is not always good.
Australien is offline  
#28 Old 10-08-2008, 12:26 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Irizary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Australien View Post

What strikes me is how fanatical vegans can be when I betya most of them grew up eating flesh, maybe they are just angry at themselves and then project that anger towards others.



FYI original poster: the above is exactly the kind of post that is purposefully engineered and guaranteed to cause friction between vegans and vegetarians. Notice the words "fanatical vegans," and the ridiculous accusation "they are just angry at themselves and project..." This is the kind of angry and accusatory post that will cause friction between vegans and vegetarians on the board - so don't do this (and don't act innocent if you do) if you want to avoid that

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

Irizary is offline  
#29 Old 10-08-2008, 12:31 AM
Beginner
 
Australien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 147
why is there friction?

should this not be discussed?

If you were a world leader would you just avoid difficult issues?

Just because some people don't have the resolve to discuss difficult issues does not mean other stronger types should shy away.
Australien is offline  
#30 Old 10-08-2008, 12:31 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Here's another possibility:



maybe, just maybe, the word 'fanatical' is subjective and depends on what ethical or political values the user of that word him/herself has. Calling something fanatical doesn't really convey that much, only that you disagree with someone's approach.



Maybe , the word fanatical is subjective , but if you turn the word up a notch , fanatical people can be a danger to themselfs and others around them , doesn't matter what the cause or belief is.
bluegold is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off