Originally Posted by Finlay
1vegan: fish don't make (audible) noise
Actually, funny thing about that... I was watching the Discovery Channel a while ago and it turns out that fish actually do make quite a bit of noise. Grunts, etc. We think of them as being silent because they're underwater and our ears are designed to function in the air. Apparently, the lateral line down the sides of fish are what detect sound.
Not audible to us, you're definitely correct about that... I just thought this was interesting
Here's the story... though it was much more complete (and fish centered) on TV, this does mention it.http://www.exn.ca/Stories/1998/03/23/02.asp
About the whole plant pain thing... it seems an odd argument to me. Go and ask the same person if in order to live, they had the choice to shoot 10 people in the head, or 300 people in the stomach and watch them bleed to death over a period of several days? In their perverse logic, this would seem to be an analogous situation, although I can't say that I value the life of a carrot when compared to my own or that of somebody I care about.
A good argument would be that it doesn't make biological sense for a plant to feel pain. Animals feel pain as a warning that we are in danger of being harmed for the purpose of escaping from whatever is harming us. Plants are rooted to the ground, unable to escape. They couldn't get away from it even if they wanted to. So in the lives of plants, pain would just be an unpleasant, entirely superfluous thing. They have developed other means of warding off potential attackers, like prickly thorns in acacia trees and skin-irritants in poison ivy, but having those doesn't even remotely suggest that a plant is consciously trying to avoid pain.
Those who attempt to use the fact that there's no proof that plants *don't* feel pain as proof that they definitely *do* are using a weak appeal to ignorance. It's like saying that ghosts or aliens definitely exist simply because we don't know that they don't. That said, I can't prove that plants can't feel pain but neither can anyone else here prove that they do. So we're stuck and people are probably going to continue to believe whatever it is that they want to... and thus, I've pretty much just eaten up 10 minutes of my life writing all of this stuff and that's 10 minutes of my life I'm never going to get back!