The Difference Between Eating Part of a Cow and Part of a Plant - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 09-30-2003, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael View Post

So since plants feel pain and animals feel pain and eating part of a plant that doesn't kill the plant is ok does that mean I could cut off a cow's ear and eat it. That would be ok?



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Originally Posted by Michael View Post

For some reason you can't explain to me what the difference is between eating part of a cow and part of a plant. According to your line of thinking they both suffer pain so why not eat animal parts if removing them doesn't kill the animal?



I haven't studied whether or not plants feel pain, so I'm not going to argue that. I do believe however that we should strive to cause the least amount of harm and I think that the practice of well-studied fruitarianism is beneficial because no plants or animals are harmed (Ideally.)



Even if we make the assumption that both animals and plants feel pain I think it's easy to argue why there is a difference between eating a cow's ear and eating a plant's fruit. I could make an argument around an animal's physical disapproval of its ear getting cut off, but there's an argument that's even easier to make than that. Fruit is meant to come off a plant for that is how a plant reproduces (it releases its seed-bearing ovaries.) If plants do indeed feel pain, and they evolved to release fruit to reproduce, than surely they evolved in such a way that they release fruit painlessly.



Ears are not meant to come off. (Unless they're the chocolate ones on your Easter candy. )
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#2 Old 09-30-2003, 02:52 AM
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Um....



These discusions get us nowhere because as a first we would have to determine what pain is, how to measure it or what the signals are.



Plants don't feel pain, as they make no noise....



Animals don't feel pain, as they don't say it like we do....etc....etc....
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#3 Old 09-30-2003, 03:11 AM
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Assuming that plants feel pain, you'll still be causing less suffering by being veg*n (because one pound of meat requires x pounds of grains).



1vegan: fish don't make (audible) noise .
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#4 Old 09-30-2003, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Finlay View Post

fish don't make (audible) noise .



See, see...there we go.



And this is the reasons why this kind of discussions always strand (or is it crash)



If animals are different from people as they don't "talk" like us, well than chinese aren't human either.



I agree chinese make noise, but it isn't like talking......









(this has a kind of sarcasm tone, sigh)
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#5 Old 09-30-2003, 03:22 AM
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1vegan, I'm not trying to prove anything except that there's a difference between picking a fruit and cutting off an animals ear. I had to start a new thread because a mod had locked the previous one in which this topic was being discussed. This question was left unasked, and it was bothering me (I'm rather anal retentive about finishing things. )
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#6 Old 09-30-2003, 03:29 AM
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I know that, maybe I should get me another cup of coffee. (didn't sleep to well tonight)



Ok, ummmm...I just see the "plant have feelings too" as a sensless attack by omni's. It's just somthing to pick on, but has no real debatable value.



It's the same as:



You ride a bicycle because you think cars polute?

Have you any idea how much pollution is done while producing a bike? Wow, man, the paint on your bike isn't exactly biodegradable.......



yeah yeah right
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#7 Old 09-30-2003, 03:56 AM
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Since plants produce fruit to reproduce, I bet it feels good to them to get em off. so to speak.
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#8 Old 09-30-2003, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by kpickell View Post

Since plants produce fruit to reproduce, I bet it feels good to them to get em off. so to speak.



Sort of like a blowjob ?



(I can't believe I'm posting this )
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#9 Old 09-30-2003, 04:06 AM
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oh baby pluck that apple.
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#10 Old 09-30-2003, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1vegan View Post

See, see...there we go.



And this is the reasons why this kind of discussions always strand (or is it crash)



If animals are different from people as they don't "talk" like us, well than chinese aren't human either.



I agree chinese make noise, but it isn't like talking......









(this has a kind of sarcasm tone, sigh)



It was a cheap fish-joke to begin with .



Sadly, it is also an argument that is sometimes cited by omnis in this kind of discussion .
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#11 Old 09-30-2003, 10:17 AM
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plants evolved to bear fruit that would be visually and palately attractive to animals so that they would TAKE THEM and spread their seed FAR AWAY. if they fruit falls to the ground and another plant goes there, there would be direct competition with the mother plant and their chances of survival would decrease.
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#12 Old 09-30-2003, 11:12 AM
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Plants do not have a central nervous system, therefore, they cannot feel pain. Plants are not sentient. Plants cannot locomote.



As a human you have a right to survive on this planet, if you take your food from the lowest levels available that will still provide you with adequate nourishment, then you're doing the best you can.
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#13 Old 09-30-2003, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finlay View Post




1vegan: fish don't make (audible) noise .



Actually, funny thing about that... I was watching the Discovery Channel a while ago and it turns out that fish actually do make quite a bit of noise. Grunts, etc. We think of them as being silent because they're underwater and our ears are designed to function in the air. Apparently, the lateral line down the sides of fish are what detect sound.



Not audible to us, you're definitely correct about that... I just thought this was interesting



Here's the story... though it was much more complete (and fish centered) on TV, this does mention it.

http://www.exn.ca/Stories/1998/03/23/02.asp



.........................



About the whole plant pain thing... it seems an odd argument to me. Go and ask the same person if in order to live, they had the choice to shoot 10 people in the head, or 300 people in the stomach and watch them bleed to death over a period of several days? In their perverse logic, this would seem to be an analogous situation, although I can't say that I value the life of a carrot when compared to my own or that of somebody I care about.



A good argument would be that it doesn't make biological sense for a plant to feel pain. Animals feel pain as a warning that we are in danger of being harmed for the purpose of escaping from whatever is harming us. Plants are rooted to the ground, unable to escape. They couldn't get away from it even if they wanted to. So in the lives of plants, pain would just be an unpleasant, entirely superfluous thing. They have developed other means of warding off potential attackers, like prickly thorns in acacia trees and skin-irritants in poison ivy, but having those doesn't even remotely suggest that a plant is consciously trying to avoid pain.



Those who attempt to use the fact that there's no proof that plants *don't* feel pain as proof that they definitely *do* are using a weak appeal to ignorance. It's like saying that ghosts or aliens definitely exist simply because we don't know that they don't. That said, I can't prove that plants can't feel pain but neither can anyone else here prove that they do. So we're stuck and people are probably going to continue to believe whatever it is that they want to... and thus, I've pretty much just eaten up 10 minutes of my life writing all of this stuff and that's 10 minutes of my life I'm never going to get back!
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#14 Old 09-30-2003, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Astarte View Post

and thus, I've pretty much just eaten up 10 minutes of my life writing all of this stuff and that's 10 minutes of my life I'm never going to get back!

Yeah. This board has a tendency for that.
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#15 Old 09-30-2003, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Quizeen View Post

Plants cannot locomote.





I'm sorry, but as non-native speaker I do not understand this.



Locomote, like locomotive, steam engine



Are we talking plants don't move?



What about seaweed; is that considered a plant? It travels quite some miles over sea.
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#16 Old 09-30-2003, 03:24 PM
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Locomote means that it cannot move of its own accord. Seaweed is pushed along by the current of the water not by its own volition. I do realize that there are very few exceptions to this general rule (Venus flytraps and other carnivorous plants), but they are exceptions and are not considered acceptable food for humans. I think the fact that plants don't have a central nervous system is the key, and the fact that as humans we must consume some nourishment in order to survive. Plants are as low on the food chain as you can go. Alas, we cannot eat rocks. I think the whole thing is a non-issue really.
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#17 Old 09-30-2003, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kpickell View Post

Since plants produce fruit to reproduce, I bet it feels good to them to get em off. so to speak.



Having "produced" an off-spring (of the human kind) I'm here to say it doens't feel good to "get it off you" (though it is quite a relief afterwards)
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#18 Old 10-01-2003, 02:07 AM
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Oh dv, you're ruining all my fun. Just kidding.
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#19 Old 10-01-2003, 10:02 AM
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Remember:



Carrot juice is murder. And murder tastes good!
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#20 Old 08-22-2004, 02:39 AM
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plants hav no nervous system

animals feel pain like we do
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#21 Old 08-22-2004, 04:51 AM
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lol this is CRAZY!

Plants dont feel pain and even if they did i would still eat them,cause you gotta eat somthing!!



Besides i believe thats the way people are suppose to eat, nice fruits and vegestables



it would be the food chain



it just makes so much sence
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#22 Old 08-22-2004, 10:27 AM
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Is it "vegetarian" to eat a venus fly trap then?
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#23 Old 08-22-2004, 10:34 AM
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While plant physiology may or may not have the ability to transmit similar electrical messages as those used to transmit the concept of "pain" in animals, their lack of a central nervous system, to me, invalidates their ability to suffer. If suffering is the knowledge of pain, then without suffering, there is no knowledge of pain, and thus the pain is purely an electrical signal without consequence. If you were to someone sever my hand, and keep it alive, I doubt that I would care much if you poked a pin in it, as it would be no longer connected to my brain, and I thus wouldn't "feel" the "pain."



That's my story, and I'm sticking to it'ly yours,

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#24 Old 08-22-2004, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by CountessKerouac View Post

Is it "vegetarian" to eat a venus fly trap then?



I would guess if it's before it ate the bugs and if it still has bugs.
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#25 Old 08-22-2004, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by CountessKerouac View Post

Is it "vegetarian" to eat a venus fly trap then?



I think the answer would be "yes." Are you referring to a Venus fly trap's ability to trap insects? To me, that looks like an intentional act, or better yet, an act with intention. But I think there is a difference between an act with intention, and the closing of a fly trap's chamber when an insect lands in it. Like a foothold trap, the mechanism by which the fly trap imprisons an insect is an automatic process that will happen each time an insect lands within, in an involuntary way. For instance, a Venus fly trap will trap a pencil, just as a foothold trap will "trap" a tree branch. There is no thought or decision as to whether the physical mechanism will resopnd, and though it moves on "its own," we know that the reasons for the closing motion are purely physical and involve no thought.



Therefore, eating a Venus fly trap, while gross, in my opinion would not be a conflict of ethics to a vegetarian. Just as a tree branch blows in the wind, or bamboo grows several inches per day, the closing of a Venus fly trap is a physical reaction to forces acting upon it.



That's how I view fly traps'ly yours,

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#26 Old 08-22-2004, 10:42 AM
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Have I told you lately how cool you are, Schmeeb?
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#27 Old 08-22-2004, 10:48 AM
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Have I told you lately how cool you are, Schmeeb?



Dear borealis,



No, you haven't. Please feel free to do so now.



In memory of cheese,

Schmeebis
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#28 Old 08-22-2004, 10:50 AM
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Dr. Schmeebis



You are so cool, my nips are popping out.
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#29 Old 08-22-2004, 10:53 AM
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Dear borealis,



Holy crap.



Sincerely,

Schmeebis
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#30 Old 08-22-2004, 10:54 AM
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