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#1 Old 09-01-2003, 09:45 PM
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I really really want to go vegan, but I can't seem to give up milk. I hate soy milk so that is not an option for me. Could the vegans on the board pls answer these questions for me? Thanks.

1. What do you have for brekky if I can't have cereal?

2. I'm worried about diseases caused by lack of calcium, what do you do about this?

3. I know the three things I'll have to give up are: milk, chocolate and ice cream, are there any others?

4. I've always been told that cows NEED to be milked or they die, is this true?



Thanks for your help.
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#2 Old 09-01-2003, 09:56 PM
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1) granola bars, soy yogurt, applesauce or other fruit, pancakes, waffles, french toast (vegan style), leftovers, toast with peanut butter.



2)I'll let someone else answer this

3)You don't need to give up chocolate. There is plenty of chocolate without milk in it. tropical source for one, and some of the fancier brand dark chocolates, baker's chocolate, and with coco powder you can make your own chocolate goodies. And soy ice cream tastes just as good as regular. they even have soy ice creams with all the junk thrown in like nuts, brownies, fruit, etc. I've even seen these at the regular store.

4) First, they won't die. Second, yes, breasts of cows and humans produce in response to being milked (this of course is supposed be done by a baby and not a machine), but breasts will eventually stop producing. That is why dairy cows are "freshened" that is, reimpregnated, to keep their milk production high. So yes, there is some relief from being milked, just like a human mother may feel when her breasts get full. But if milk demand declines, fewer dairy cows will be bred and raised, and if they were no longer bred and raised all together, they would be milked naturally- by their calves.
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#3 Old 09-01-2003, 10:26 PM
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I like bagels with fruit spread for breakfast. It's so portable for when I'm in a hurry.



There are other foods that give calcium besides dairy products. Would you be suprised to know that brocolli gives calcium? Leafy vegetables and beans do too. Some berries contain calcium as well as nuts. Then you have calcium fortified juices, although I'm not exactly sure where that calcium comes from.



Thalia's right about the chocolate. Any whole foods store carries dairy free chocolate. I've not really seen it in the regular grocery stores. Watch your margarine too. You didn't mention staying away from cheese and that's a biggy. Maybe if you like cheese now you could try some nutritional yeast cheese? There's a recipe on Kreeli's website for it. There's more to getting your diet in order to being a Vegan. But sorting out your diet is a good start.



And no, cows won't die if they aren't milked.
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#4 Old 09-01-2003, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphoria View Post

I really really want to go vegan, but I can't seem to give up milk. I hate soy milk so that is not an option for me. Could the vegans on the board pls answer these questions for me? Thanks.

1. What do you have for brekky if I can't have cereal?

2. I'm worried about diseases caused by lack of calcium, what do you do about this?

3. I know the three things I'll have to give up are: milk, chocolate and ice cream, are there any others?

4. I've always been told that cows NEED to be milked or they die, is this true?



Thanks for your help.



1. Toast, bagels, oatmeal, smoothies, fruit, leftovers, whatever you like



2. I don't know anything about diseases, but broccolli and kale have calcium, lots of it. And some things are fortified with calcium, like some OJs, "milks", cereals, etc. And you can always take a supplement.



3. Like everyone else says, not ALL chocolate contains milk. Just read labels Basically, everything with milk - the obvious like cheese, milk, yogurt, ice cream, etc.



4. They won't die, I don't believe. The milk ideally would be given to the cow's baby calf.
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#5 Old 09-01-2003, 10:41 PM
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1) If you have not tried Silk, YOU SHOULD!!! Silk is the only *soy* milk I can stand, although I do like rice milk. If you really can't stand non-milks, there are lots and lots of non-cereal options (though of course you will have to make some of these yourself to make sure that they are vegan): oatmeal, fruit smoothies, toast, pancakes, muffins, waffles, soy yogurt, fresh fruit, etc.



2) Don't worry too much about the calcium issue -- there are many sources of calcium besides milk and dairy products. Many foods (e.g. cereal, soy milk, orange juice, etc) are fortified with calcium and other vitamins/minerals; just make sure that you buy the fortified kinds. Also, many foods have calcium naturally... Here are some examples of veggies and other foods and their estimated amounts of absorbable calcium (as compared to milk's 48 mg per 1/2 cup).



-- Bok choy (1/2 c) 42 mg

-- Broccoli (1/2 c) 21 mg

-- Chinese cabbage flower leaves (1/2 c) 95 mg

-- Chinese mustard greens (1/2 c) 85 mg

-- Kale (1/2 c) 30 mg

-- White beans (1 c) 49 mg

-- Pinto beans (1 c) 24 mg

-- Sweet potatoes (1/2 c) 10 mg

-- Spinach (1/2 c) 6 mg

-- Rhubarb (1/2 c) 10 mg

-- Tofu with calcium (1/2 c) 80 mg



As you can see, getting enough calcium in your diet without dairy (especially when you take supplements as well as eat plenty of calcium-rich foods) is relatively easy. (If you are worried about nutrition, which is a good thing, I highly suggest you pick up a copy of Becoming Vegan... That is where I got all of the above information on calcium content. It breaks down the nutritional pros and cons of a vegan diet and tells you what you should do to ensure that your diet is well-balanced and healthy.)



3) In addition to the things you named, you will need to give up eggs, butter, yogurt, cheese, gelatin, etc... Also be careful of hidden ingredients -- always read labels and check for milk protein, egg whites, honey, and the like. There are vegan substitutes for almost any food imaginable; I suggest you check some of them out.



4) From AskCarla.com:

Quote:
Cowslike all mammalsneed to become pregnant in order to produce milk. "Dairy" cows are impregnated every year so that they will produce a steady supply of milk. Whereas in nature, the baby drinks the milk that the mother produces, humans take the calf away from the mother cow and drink the milk intended for her baby. Cows wouldnt need to be milked if we didnt take their calves away from them or impregnate them in the first place. Learn more at MilkSucks.com.



If you are still hesitant to give up milk after your questions are satisfactorily answered, I suggest you read the following websites:



-- http://www.animalawareness.org/pages/types_farming.html

(the section about dairy cows is about halfway down)

-- http://www.peta.org/mc/facts/fsveg8.html



There are plenty more where those came from if you are interested -- just let me know.



Congratulations on your impending conversion to veganism! It is worth it, I promise. Feel free to ask any other questions you might have.
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#6 Old 09-01-2003, 11:05 PM
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i probably should have read other peoples' responses first but here goes heh.

1. even though you don't like the taste of soy milk, don't rule it out completely. i don't particularly like the taste of soy milk but when you put it on cereal, the taste doesn't shine through as much - although it might depend on what cereal you eat. anyway, i usually have cereal or waffles.

4. the ony reason cows produce so much milk and "need" to be milked is because we artificially inseminate them and force them to stay pregnant for about 11 months out of every year. if there isn't a demand for milk, we won't force them to be pregnant. if they're not pregnant, they won't be producing milk and won't need to be milked. pretty simple really
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#7 Old 09-01-2003, 11:46 PM
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chiaraluna, wow that "Chinese cabbage flower leaves" is a good source of calcium. Now what is that? My guess is it's also known as "flowering Chinese cabbage" or "yu choi"?
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#8 Old 09-02-2003, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Kyo View Post

chiaraluna, wow that "Chinese cabbage flower leaves" is a good source of calcium. Now what is that? My guess is it's also known as "flowering Chinese cabbage" or "yu choi"?



Hmm... I guess it must be. I wondered that myself when I saw it the first time, and I never got around to finding out. Does anyone else have any idea?
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#9 Old 09-02-2003, 07:17 PM
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Thanks everyone for your answers. I'm going to do my grocery shopping on Monday to buy some alternative brekkies, then I will turn vegan. Yay me!



Quote:
Originally Posted by chiaraluna View Post

1) If you have not tried Silk, YOU SHOULD



I don't think we get Silk in Australia, but I will look harder.



Wow I never realised so many things have calcium in. I will try to find Becoming Vegan over the weekend.





Quote:
Originally Posted by chiaraluna View Post

3) In addition to the things you named, you will need to give up eggs, butter, yogurt, cheese, gelatin, etc... Also be careful of hidden ingredients -- always read labels and check for milk protein, egg whites, honey, and the like. There are vegan substitutes for almost any food imaginable; I suggest you check some of them out.

Thanks, I know. I cut out cheese, gelatin, yoghurt, eggs and butter when I became veg. The only thing I forgot about was the honey, but I only eat that on porridge and since I wont be eating porridge anymore, wont be a prob I'm so used to checking labels of everything, that wont be hard, just means I have a few more ingrediants to beware.



Thanks everyone for the information on cows. See the propoganda I was fed by my omni family



Hope to start the transition by Tuesday. Yay me!
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#10 Old 09-02-2003, 07:23 PM
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Euphoria, get thee to Coles, go straight to the health food section, and find Sweet Williams soy chocolate. I highly recommend the rice crackle variety.



Our soy ice creams suck. Heads up.



Silk is divine but we don't have it here. I drink only flavoured soymilk. Vanilla is good for cooking (sweets) etc and strawberry IMO tastes the most "normal".
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#11 Old 09-02-2003, 07:27 PM
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Euphoria, get thee to Coles, go straight to the health food section, and find Sweet Williams soy chocolate. I highly recommend the rice crackle variety.



Our soy ice creams suck. Heads up.



Silk is divine but we don't have it here. I drink only flavoured soymilk. Vanilla is good for cooking (sweets) etc and strawberry IMO tastes the most "normal".





Cool you can buy it at Coles? I knew you could get it at that chocolate factory we were talking bout that time.

If I can't have soy ice cream, at least I know I have VITARI!!!!!

I've tasted the normal (YUK) and the strawberry, on your advice, and that was yuk too. Hmmm think i'll give soymilk a miss.
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#12 Old 09-02-2003, 07:30 PM
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Cool you can buy it at Coles? I knew you could get it at that chocolate factory we were talking bout that time.

If I can't have soy ice cream, at least I know I have VITARI!!!!!

I've tasted the normal (YUK) and the strawberry, on your advice, and that was yuk too. Hmmm think i'll give soymilk a miss.



Yeah, you can! Just not the Easter range. It's much cheaper at Coles, about $1.67 (compared to $2 elsewhere...)



Yay for Vitari! Yeah, isn't it great? Tropical all the way!



Oh, sorry! LOL I really like strawberry milk and to me it tastes just the same... but if you need to cook something sweet, you can't even tell that it's got vanilla soymilk in it. Keep it in mind if you need to bake something with milk...
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#13 Old 09-02-2003, 07:38 PM
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Yeah, you can! Just not the Easter range. It's much cheaper at Coles, about $1.67 (compared to $2 elsewhere...)



Yay for Vitari! Yeah, isn't it great? Tropical all the way!



Oh, sorry! LOL I really like strawberry milk and to me it tastes just the same... but if you need to cook something sweet, you can't even tell that it's got vanilla soymilk in it. Keep it in mind if you need to bake something with milk...



Cool, I'll buy some, next time I'm in there.

Vitari rocks. It's great in fruit smoothies.

Yeah, at least I know I have cooking alternatives for pancakes etc
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#14 Old 09-02-2003, 11:17 PM
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Hope to start the transition by Tuesday. Yay me!



Yay you!!
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#15 Old 09-03-2003, 02:27 AM
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2. I'm worried about diseases caused by lack of calcium, what do you do about this?



Maybe this could be of help: http://www.vegansociety.com/html/info/info09.html



The vegan society has more info on it see www.vegansociety.com
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#16 Old 09-03-2003, 08:20 AM
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1. What do you have for brekky if I can't have cereal?



you can have any sorts of cereals such as oatmeal, etc, or you can have fruit and nuts, or soy yogurt. You may want to try a number of soymilks/rice milks to find ones that you like. Also, various toasts and nut butters are also good.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphoria View Post


2. I'm worried about diseases caused by lack of calcium, what do you do about this?



you can get calcium from a number of sources--such as veggies, legumes, etc. YOu'll find enough. Also, soy products have calcium and many cereals, etc, are fortified with it. YOu'll be fine--as long as your diet is varied.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphoria View Post


3. I know the three things I'll have to give up are: milk, chocolate and ice cream, are there any others?



well, all dairy products and trace dairy products. Butter, sour cream, yogurt, milk, ice cream, whipped cream, cheese, etc, and then look out for whey, casein, and other trace of milk products (milk solids and the like). Also, eggs and egg products, etc.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphoria View Post


4. I've always been told that cows NEED to be milked or they die, is this true?



It is not true that cows die when they are not milked, but not milking a cow that needs to be milked is very painful for the cow. The pressure on the utter is immense, and a weaning process is necessary to take her from full milk producing to non producing. This is what happens naturally as the calf who thrives on her milk begins to need less and less milk as s/he begins to eat more grasses. So, the cow produces less milk, and over time, doesn't produce any milk.



If we were to simply stop milking the cows that are milked now, at full production, then they would be in a great deal of pain that could lead to a number of health problems for them. So, right now, cows need to be milked. But, they can be undermilked (enough to reduce the pressure) and then eventually they will go back to being non-producing.







Also, soy delicious ice cream is excellent. i'm sure you'll find it an adequate replacement.
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#17 Old 09-03-2003, 09:50 AM
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what's whey and casein and what is it generally found in?
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#18 Old 09-03-2003, 09:53 AM
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Whey is what is left after cheese making and casein also comes from milk.



Whey can be found in everything as it is sometimes used as a subsitute for milkpowder. (I see it a lot in cookies)
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#19 Old 09-03-2003, 06:12 PM
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what's whey and casein and what is it generally found in?



You can find it in the weirdest places. I originally wasn't sure how fussy to be about these trace things, but after reading about casein being pretty damn unhealthy and the fact that whey (correct me if I'm wrong) seems to be made as a by-product using rennet (rennet isn't in it, but it's used in the process...? I sem to recall reading that somewhere) but anyway I try and avoid it as much as possible. Some chips (I think Burger Rings) have whey in them, a lot of soy cheeses have casein. Casen is a milk protein that aids the melting process. I think there are also quite a few sweet or savoury biscuits that use whey...
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