High IQ link to being vegetarian - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 12-15-2006, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gaya View Post

I can see getting appropriate samples as problematic in general. Veg*ns are a minority any way let alone finding a substantial sample of them with dated IQ records etc. Tho hopefully there are longitudinal studies already in the making for years to come.



More important than sampling, IMO, is the design of the experiment. If you don't block for at least wealth and gender you are wasting your time.
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#32 Old 12-15-2006, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by remilard View Post

More important than sampling, IMO, is the design of the experiment. If you don't block for at least wealth and gender you are wasting your time.

well stats aren't my thing but didn't they or wouldn't they account for these variables in the statistical analysis?
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#33 Old 12-15-2006, 09:57 PM
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I wouldn't get too excited.



I haven't looked into this at any great depth but it seems to accept that 'meat avoiders' are vegetarians.



"More than 33 percent of the men and women in the study described themselves as vegetarians but said they ate white meat and fish."



This, obviously, renders the study mostly useless. I have a huge problem with meat-eating 'vegetarians'. Don't get me wrong - it's good that there are some animals they are not eating. But they are not vegetarians and they should stop calling themselves that. (Likewise, scholars should stop allowing people to "self-define" themselves as vegetarians. Most of the academic papers I have read do allow too much leeway on this.)



It's entirely objective: if you eat meat, you are not a vegetarian.

Nobody claims to be teetotal because they do not drink bear - but drink vodka, etc - so why should scholars allow such inconsistencies when it comes to diet?



Just over 4 percent were "strict vegetarians" and 2 percent vegans. Well, is that all? If we take 'strict vegetarians' to be ACTUAL vegetarians then obviously we're not able to conclude anything from the study.



It's conclusions should be that meat-avoiders are more intelligent etc - because it isn't actually studying real vegetarians, only fake ones.



First off, any step towards vegetarianism is the right step. I fully agree that the best way to go about it is to avoid meat entirely, no chicken or fish. But for years I avoided certain kinds of meats, and if I hadn't started in that direction perhaps I wouldn't have continued my education that led me to decide to become vegetarian. Of course, when my main meat choice was ground turkey I didn't consider myself vegetarian then. I agree that those people shouldn't be part of the survey, but perhaps those with higher IQs who are seeking out healthier diets will turn full vegetarian later on.

"I used to hate dogs 'til I saw one kill a kid." W.C. Fields
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#34 Old 12-15-2006, 10:01 PM
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well stats aren't my thing but didn't they or wouldn't they account for these variables in the statistical analysis?



the link suggests they controlled for "occupational class" and "level of education".



As a trained statistician I would recommend that wealth is superior to the above characteristics and that you must also confound race. I suspect that they captured much of the wealth effect but what remains can be explained by race.
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#35 Old 12-15-2006, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by remilard View Post

the link suggests they controlled for "occupational class" and "level of education".



As a trained statistician I would recommend that wealth is superior to the above characteristics and that you must also confound race. I suspect that they captured much of the wealth effect but what remains can be explained by race.

race...good point! another one.
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#36 Old 12-15-2006, 10:13 PM
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I also think it's crud that the author didn't list the journal volume or study title. it's a pain in the rump to find the study now but i'm looking.



nothing in medline or psyinfo at my uni, eh
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#37 Old 12-15-2006, 10:22 PM
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I JUST READ THAT! Awesome... It's true...
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#38 Old 12-15-2006, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by gaya View Post

I also think it's crud that the author didn't list the journal volume or study title. it's a pain in the rump to find the study now but i'm looking.



nothing in medline or psyinfo at my uni, eh



http://www.bmj.com/cgi/rapidpdf/bmj.39030.675069.55v1
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#39 Old 12-15-2006, 11:08 PM
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oh crap burn



I rescind my criticism of this study
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#40 Old 12-15-2006, 11:37 PM
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thanks red!
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#41 Old 12-15-2006, 11:56 PM
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Well, it's a nice epi study. I hope there are follow ups that get into some of suggestions made about brain function etc.
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#42 Old 12-16-2006, 01:06 AM
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I especially like the part about how vegans are mildly retarded, on balance.
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#43 Old 12-16-2006, 01:09 AM
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*snicker*
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#44 Old 12-17-2006, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by remilard View Post

The whole chicken vs egg thing that Indian Summer quoted suggests that it is only a question of which way the causation runs. For reasons delineated by nigel I think most reasonable hypotheses would include no causation either way. We already know that IQ and vegetarianism are correlated with wealth and whiteness, among other things.

I think it would be plain silly to conclude from the study that high IQ at age 10 in itself causes vegetarianism/meat reduction. Obviously, a person can have very high IQ and never even know what vegetarianism is. So no, I didn't mean to suggest there was a direct link between vegetarianism and high IQ.

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I especially like the part about how vegans are mildly retarded, on balance.

What nigel said.

I no longer post here after VB was sold in 2012. (See my profile page for details.)
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#45 Old 12-17-2006, 01:19 PM
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I've noticed a more general pattern long ago, of which this study confirms a special case: stupider people tend to be more selfish & are unable (or unwilling) to put themselves into anothers perspective.



I have a very low IQ, and it took me a very long time to accept the reasons for becoming a vegetarian & at the same time to reduce selfishness.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Summer View Post

I think it would be plain silly to conclude from the study that high IQ at age 10 in itself causes vegetarianism/meat reduction. Obviously, a person can have very high IQ and never even know what vegetarianism is. So no, I didn't mean to suggest there was a direct link between vegetarianism and high IQ.



What nigel said.

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#46 Old 12-17-2006, 01:40 PM
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My score has already dropped 50 points. I don't even understand half the crap I say.
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#47 Old 12-17-2006, 03:06 PM
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Haha, vegetarians are more intelligent. I just gained university entrance in the top 10%, yay!!!
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#48 Old 12-17-2006, 04:27 PM
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There was another study about vegetarians not looking to see if an article was already posted before posting it for the 100th time.
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#49 Old 12-18-2006, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by non_existence View Post

I've noticed a more general pattern long ago, of which this study confirms a special case: stupider people tend to be more selfish & are unable (or unwilling) to put themselves into anothers perspective.





I think people who seem selfish and unable to see others' perspectives are simply more ignorant.



On this thread, even though the article seems to compliment the non-meat-eating population I can't help but wonder if it puts too much emphasis on "IQ." IQ is only one part that makes up "intelligence". People high in IQ often have lower EQ. It's a matter of balance. Perhaps I should be happy about what's written in the article, but shouldn't we all judge a human being by more than just his/her IQ score?
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#50 Old 12-20-2006, 07:37 PM
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IQ is a measure of problem solving ability, so anyone who decides to opt out of a meat eating society has chosen to solve a series of problems which face opting out or in depending on how you look at it. Therefore they probably would have a higher IQ because they welcome the challenges involved. That is only my humble opinion though, however being a vegan I do have an exceptionally high IQ and so I am bound to be right.
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