Eco-Eating: Eating as if the Earth Matters - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 06-20-2006, 01:13 PM
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In my continual quest to improve my Eco-Eating web site at www.brook.com/veg , I've made a major update, partly based on the suggestions from some of you on VB: a table of contents, new sections, added info, additonal quotes, more links, working graphics, etc. I'd like to get a song playing on the site...perhaps some classical music, but I'm not sure how yet.



Please let me know what you think...and I'm always open for constructive criticism.
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#2 Old 06-20-2006, 01:34 PM
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Wow, tons of good information. If I may make a suggestion for future style improvements, I would make a separate page for each main point and have your table of contents as a frame on the left side. People tend not to read sites if they have to scroll a lot.



But your information is really good. Did you write the whole thing by hand in html?
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#3 Old 06-20-2006, 01:44 PM
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Hi. I write for www.treehugger.com, a decently popular eco-blog.



We've written a lot about food, and I've come to the conclusion that the most underrated factor is distance. If I had to choose, I'd rather have local food than organic food (though local and organic is of course best) because of the amount of energy used for transportation. Just think about how much diesel fuel it takes to bring your fruits from across the globe (the boat, the trucks, etc). Each time you eat those, you contribute to air pollution, global warming and the depletion of fossil fuel reserves (only a small contribution, but aggregate it all together and it's a lot)



If we could just encourage and develop our local food production potential and eat more seasonally, we'd take a very big step in reducing the ecological impact of eating.
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#4 Old 06-20-2006, 03:10 PM
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The changes are a definite improvement. This is one of my favourite sites. So much information.



Two suggestions:



1. Bigger pictures if you can but that's not a big deal.

2. I think it would be easier to scroll through if there was some kind of obvious divide between each section. Like bigger headings for each section and even some kind of dividing graphic -- like maybe a box around each section like you have at the very top around the title. I'm not sure. I'm guessing you can't do pages. But actually I like sites with everything on one page.



But overall this is an excellent site and I love the table of contents!!!
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#5 Old 06-20-2006, 03:12 PM
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Oh, and maybe number the table of contents and number the sections -- that'll make it easier to scroll.
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#6 Old 06-20-2006, 03:59 PM
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If you do have pages I would go with probably four pages. I would separate veg*nism as is relates to

a) the environment

b) the animals

c) people



and then I would have one more page for everything that isn't covered by those catagories.



And I was reading through your "Arguements Against Veg*nism" and in #10 you could also say "If you mean dominion as stated in the bible you should read the text in context (Gen 1:26-31). After God gives humans dominion over the animals he also prescribes a vegan diet -- that should give you an indication of what dominion entails in the eyes of God. Vegetarianism has not always been possible in every time and place and that is why God allows meat eating in bible (Gen 9:2-4). But the ideal as indicated in the Garden of Eden and prophesized by Isaiah to come again (see Is 11:6-9) is that all people will live in peace with the animals."



Hey, you have a link to the Catholic Vegetarian Association!!! I didn't know there was such a thing. Off I go, see ya.
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#7 Old 06-20-2006, 04:16 PM
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I would make each item in the Table of contents a link to that section of the document. (If you don't break it out into multiple pages)
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#8 Old 06-20-2006, 11:13 PM
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Hey vegnik, do you mind if I make up a printout using some info from your site. I'd like to give out info regarding veg*nism and your site has it all. I would make sure that your site address is very apparent so that people know where to go for more info.



Please let me know. Thanks.
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#9 Old 06-21-2006, 09:57 AM
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This is a really great site, thank you for it. I agree with the other posts here; it would be helpful to make the information more accessible. Something simple you can do, which keeps everything on one page, is to bookmark each section. The result of that would be that in your Table of Contents, each item would be linked to that section of the webpage, so someone could click on "Vitamin B12" and the page would automatically scroll to that section. Could be the best option if you have to keep it to one page.
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#10 Old 06-21-2006, 10:03 AM
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Great website. I have to write a sociology paper on vegetarianism and have to have 15 websites as sources. I knew it wouldn't be hard to find, but now it will be even easier with your wonderful list of links.
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#11 Old 06-21-2006, 11:37 AM
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Good load of info.



design/layout:

1) Make the text at the top of the page much smaller. I always shrink from pages that have 2" tall letters that shout what it is I'm looking at.

2) The front page took forever to load. You have the table of contents at the left, make those all links to separate pages. I don't know if that was your idea in the future, but you should definitely split it up.

3) I agree, larger pictures. After you split up the info onto separate pages, you could have larger pictures above the information for the page.



Good stuff all around, it just needs a little neatening up.
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#12 Old 06-21-2006, 04:31 PM
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Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the feedback. My goal is to continually improve the site over time.



As was guessed, I wrote the whole thing myself, getting ideas from MANY different sources, both online and off. I continue to do so.



The other thing is that I'm not at all tech savvy...I'm actually writing the page on MS Word, just adding links.



So, any easy suggestions on how to link the table of contents to the sections below? I think that's a great idea. I think mulitple pages is off in the future, but linked contents, and perhaps larger pics and better separations, is something I could do soon.



Please keep the ideas coming...and if anyone wants to donate expert web skills, and/or translating skills, please let me know!



Thanks!
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#13 Old 06-22-2006, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSSHF View Post

Wow, tons of good information. If I may make a suggestion for future style improvements, I would make a separate page for each main point and have your table of contents as a frame on the left side. People tend not to read sites if they have to scroll a lot.



But your information is really good. Did you write the whole thing by hand in html?



I can do this for you if you like. It's really simple if you use dreamweaver.
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#14 Old 06-22-2006, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sun View Post

Hey vegnik, do you mind if I make up a printout using some info from your site. I'd like to give out info regarding veg*nism and your site has it all. I would make sure that your site address is very apparent so that people know where to go for more info.



Please let me know. Thanks.

Yes, of course, please use and share the info on my web page as you think best. Information is free, is meant to be shared, and is needed to make this world a healthier, saner, more compassionate, and more sustainable place.
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#15 Old 06-22-2006, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketivnilloc View Post

I can do this for you if you like. It's really simple if you use dreamweaver.



Sure, I'd really appreciate that. You can e-mail me at [email protected] and we can work something out. Thanks!
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#16 Old 06-22-2006, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegnik View Post

Yes, of course, please use and share the info on my web page as you think best. Information is free, is meant to be shared, and is needed to make this world a healthier, saner, more compassionate, and more sustainable place.



Awesome!!! I'm going to work on making a front/back one page printup of some of the reams of info you have there. I want to leave it at the monthly Earthsave potlucks we have.



And when I get my finances in order I'll try to send you some money to support your fine work.
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#17 Old 06-22-2006, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Vegetarians tread lightly, requiring only 1/6 acre (0.067 hectares) of land to feed themselves each year; carnivores, 3 1/4 acres (1.315 hectares).



This is on the site under "Land". I'm assuming you mean omnivores and not carnivores. It'd also be good to have the stat for how much land it takes to feed a vegan. Not that I have that stat, lol.
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#18 Old 06-22-2006, 02:39 PM
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This bit confused me some - under "factory farming" you mention the unnecessary killing of animals in the production of food, but in your site you refer to vegetarianism and not veganism. Would it not be more consistent to substitute the word "vegan" for "vegetarian" if you are promoting not using any animal products at all?



"Vegetarians oppose cruelty with every meal and keep things more natural, more fair, and more sustainable."
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#19 Old 06-22-2006, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sun View Post

This is on the site under "Land". I'm assuming you mean omnivores and not carnivores. It'd also be good to have the stat for how much land it takes to feed a vegan. Not that I have that stat, lol.





You can grow a complete vegan diet in less than 1000 square feet.



Reference: "One Circle, How to Grow a Complete Diet in Less Than 1000 Square Feet" by Dave Duhon & Cindy Gebhard



http://www.bountifulgardens.org/shop...ive-books.html
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#20 Old 06-22-2006, 09:22 PM
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For my present purposes, I often use the term vegetarian as a synonym for vegan simply because more people are familair with it. Many people have never heard of vegan, don't know what it is, and can't pronounce it. I try to educate people about it on the site, but still have to reach people where they are.
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#21 Old 06-22-2006, 09:22 PM
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For my present purposes, I often use the term vegetarian as a synonym for vegan simply because more people are familair with it. Many people have never heard of vegan, don't know what it is, and can't pronounce it. I try to educate people about it on the site, but still have to reach people where they are.
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#22 Old 06-23-2006, 10:57 AM
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Under "Land" it says:



Quote:
Eating meat takes land away from more productive purposes. Almost 1/2 of U.S. land is used to raise animals for food or for crops to feed these animals.



I wonder if it would be more clear to say "Almost 1/2 of US agricultural land"



I've already printed up a front/back fact sheet from your website and I just have to make a few changes now. And I have your website address at the top and on the bottom is says:



For a more indepth look at Eco-eating please check out this site:

http://www.brook.com/veg/
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#23 Old 06-23-2006, 11:02 AM
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Oh, and to address Ludi's concern you could have the definitions for vegetarian, vegan, omnivore and carnivore maybe just below the table of contents. I think a lot of people coming to your site would actually be interested to know the differences between each of those terms.
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#24 Old 06-23-2006, 11:24 AM
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I agree, Mr Sun, especially if they're just starting to sort out information about all this, it is confusing to not know what the site means when it uses the words "vegetarian" and "vegan" etc. Vegnik, you say you use "vegetarian" and "vegan" synonymously, but that is extremely inaccurate in my opinion and could really confuse someone just coming into this. "But wait," they'd think (as I did) "vegetarians eat and use animal products and here you are using the word in a way which implies they are against eating and using any animal products." It's just confusing, I think.
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#25 Old 06-23-2006, 01:15 PM
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Maybe you could tie in the definitions of the various terms with stats on the environmental impact of those diets. Something like this:



Quote:
Vegetarian: one who abstains from eating any creature from the animal kingdom including poultry, fish and all sea-food. And ovo-lacto vegetarian (one who eats eggs and dairy) requires 1200 gallons of water to produce a single day's worth of food. Vegetarians require 1/6 of an acre of land for food each year.



Vegan: one who abstains from all animals products in regards to food and lifestyle. A vegan requires only 300 gallons of water to produce a single day's worth of food. Vegans also require only ______ of land for food each year.



Omnivore: one who eats both plants and animals. Omnivores require 4000 gallons of water to produce a single day's worth of food. They also need 3 1/4 acres of land to produce a single day's worth of food.



Carnivore: animals who eat exclusively (or almost exclusively) other animals. A very tiny portion of the human population could be considered to eat a carnivoric diet.



Well, I'm sure you'd do a better job but something like that anyway.
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#26 Old 06-23-2006, 03:19 PM
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These are such great comments and suggestions...I'll get to work on it! THANKS!
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