As a matter of survival - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 06-18-2006, 10:54 AM
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This is something i often think about, and 1 or 2 omnis have asked as well: "Could or would i, as a matter of survival, kill and eat an animal?"

The way i think at the moment, i don't think i could kill or eat any animal! The idea makes me feel ill! But then i start to think of it in more neutral way. If i was in a situation (oh i don't know, maybe civilisation had broken down, or there had been some kind of disaster) and we have to start living like hunter gathers again, would i kill for survival? At first i don't think i could. I would try and live off whatever i could that didn't involve dead animals. But as hunger sets in, i think i could eat meat, as long as someone else had killed it and cooked it! Eventually, i think if you really had the urge to survive, you would adapt.

I've been veggie for 9 years and that idea always makes me feel unwell! It's great in todays society to have the choice to not eat meat, and have alternatives. I was just wondering if anyone else had thought about this, and what you would do!
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#2 Old 06-18-2006, 11:10 AM
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I dont think i could end anothers life to keep mine going
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#3 Old 06-18-2006, 11:14 AM
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I would grab a couple of vegan pizzas from the (somewhere-else-mentioned) vegan pizza tree and maybe pick something off them to give to my non-human friends sharing the survival situation with me.



I don't really know what I would do, what I say here typing this won't mean much in that situation one way or the other.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#4 Old 06-18-2006, 11:24 AM
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I think most of us would be surprised at what we would do when in survival mode. Considering there are many documented cases of poeple resorting to cannibalism when they faced certain death otherwise, I think most of us would be fooling ourselves if we said we would choose starvation over killing an animal. Thankfully, I don't anticipate ever finding myself in such a situation.
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#5 Old 06-18-2006, 11:32 AM
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I honestly won't know until the situation arises. It's easy to say something, but even harder to go through with it.
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#6 Old 06-18-2006, 11:37 AM
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I think most of us would be surprised at what we would do when in survival mode. Considering there are many documented cases of poeple resorting to cannibalism when they faced certain death otherwise, I think most of us would be fooling ourselves if we said we would choose starvation over killing an animal. Thankfully, I don't anticipate ever finding myself in such a situation.



i completely agree. people cut off their own bodyparts to survive, that sure is a lot scarier than killing and eating an animal! our natural insticnts come into play when it comes down to survival, and there really isn't much we can do about it.
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#7 Old 06-18-2006, 12:00 PM
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I would. Sorry, but I am not that sensitive. I would try to trap worms, insects, snails, small fish for the most part-- as well as plants. I wouldnt simply fall over because I was squeemish. I've done desert survival training and there are lots of things to eat as long as you are not very picky--
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#8 Old 06-18-2006, 12:13 PM
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i find it way too hypothetical, but ok ,we'll go with that.



if there are living animals wherever this scenario takes palce, then there will be ( in the VAST majority of cases) vegetation . we could eat the vegetation.



when people ask this question, you should give them whatever your answer is, then ask them if theyd eat already dead humans?
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#9 Old 06-18-2006, 12:23 PM
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i find it way too hypothetical, but ok ,we'll go with that.



if there are living animals wherever this scenario takes palce, then there will be ( in the VAST majority of cases) vegetation . we could eat the vegetation.



when people ask this question, you should give them whatever your answer is, then ask them if theyd eat already dead humans?



If you were standed in a snow-covered winter landscape like the Donner Party, then no, there would be no edible vegetation, or certainly not enough to live on.
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#10 Old 06-18-2006, 12:23 PM
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I would absolutely eat meat if I had to in order to survive. I think anybody would be crazy to say that they wouldn't!

Thankfully, I don't see this scenario popping up any time soon in my own life.
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#11 Old 06-18-2006, 12:31 PM
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I think anybody would be crazy to say that they wouldn't!

I think Gandhi* would probably say that, since he also said: "If anybody said that I should die if I did not take beef tea or mutton, even on medical advice, I would prefer death. That is the basis of my vegetarianism." (from a speech delivered at a vegetarian society meeting)







*you (the plural/random you) should notice the spelling: it's G-a-n-d-h-i, not Ghandi. Thank you.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#12 Old 06-18-2006, 12:33 PM
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of course this is hypothetical! Thats the fun of it! I was just wondering if anyone would deny their natural survival instincts. As awful as the idea is, i think the majority would revert back to primal instincts. Hopefully we'll never have to find out, but i just thought it would be an interesting question. And, if it was a survival situation, i think i could eat another human, if my continuing excistance depended on it.
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#13 Old 06-18-2006, 12:36 PM
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i suppose it's easy to take the moral high ground when you're not faced with your own demise. I would love to say that i would never never kill or eat another animal no matter what the situation, but morals and the way you think change when faced with your own survival.
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#14 Old 06-18-2006, 12:39 PM
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i suppose it's easy to take the moral high ground when you're not faced with your own demise. I would love to say that i would never never kill or eat another animal no matter what the situation, but morals and the way you think change when faced with your own survival.

I take Gandhi's words pretty seriously though, since despite his lapse of taking cow's milk upon medical advice at one point, he managed to stick to his convictions pretty well in his life.



I didn't say I personally would "take the moral high ground" however.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#15 Old 06-18-2006, 12:40 PM
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If you were standed in a snow-covered winter landscape like the Donner Party, then no, there would be no edible vegetation, or certainly not enough to live on.



thats why i said "vast majority of cases", DOH!!
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#16 Old 06-18-2006, 12:48 PM
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I take Gandhi's words pretty seriously though, since despite his lapse of taking cow's milk upon medical advice at one point, he managed to stick to his convictions pretty well in his life.



I didn't say I personally would "take the moral high ground" however.



No offence intended you understand. I'm just saying that no matter how well you live your life, and how great you are at never eating or endorsing animal products, we're still hunter gathers deep deep down, and faced with a situation, we'd probably all revert back if we wanted to live
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#17 Old 06-18-2006, 12:50 PM
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No offence intended you understand. I'm just saying that no matter how well you live your life, and how great you are at never eating or endorsing animal products, we're still hunter gathers deep deep down, and faced with a situation, we'd probably all revert back if we wanted to live



and being in that situation ,we'd also eat human meat.
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#18 Old 06-18-2006, 12:54 PM
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and being in that situation ,we'd also eat human meat.



Yes i would as i said earlier! Seeing as i prefer animals to people i'd probably go for that fat lawyer first before the cute bunny!!
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#19 Old 06-18-2006, 12:55 PM
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in the extremely unlikely situation where it's die or eat meat (human or otherwise)... I would kill and BBQ the least attractive member of the group first.
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#20 Old 06-18-2006, 01:07 PM
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and eat the most attractive one

...in a different way?
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#21 Old 06-18-2006, 01:09 PM
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and eat the most attractive one

...in a different way?



ever get the munchies after eating?
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#22 Old 06-18-2006, 01:22 PM
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Ha! I was just drunkenly having this conversation with my stepmother-in-law at a bar last night. She was thoroughly convinced that I "sneak" fish and chicken sometimes. I told her I'd eat fish or chicken, sure...but about the same point I'd eat my shoes. Meat is so far away from being food to me. But not further away than anything else I don't consider food. Die rather than eat an animal? Hell no. Sorry, but no. I'd eat anything if death was my other option.



Besides, like I say all the time, I'm a health-atarian. It would be pretty ironic if someone who was vegetarian for health reasons died for their "health reasons". Death isn't the healthiest state to be in.
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#23 Old 06-18-2006, 01:33 PM
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Besides, like I say all the time, I'm a health-atarian.

You eat health? Are you like a virus or something?

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#24 Old 06-18-2006, 01:35 PM
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Ha! I was just drunkenly having this conversation with my stepmother-in-law at a bar last night. She was thoroughly convinced that I "sneak" fish and chicken sometimes. I told her I'd eat fish or chicken, sure...but about the same point I'd eat my shoes. Meat is so far away from being food to me. But not further away than anything else I don't consider food. Die rather than eat an animal? Hell no. Sorry, but no. I'd eat anything if death was my other option.



Besides, like I say all the time, I'm a health-atarian. It would be pretty ironic if someone who was vegetarian for health reasons died for their "health reasons". Death isn't the healthiest state to be in.



very good! I'm not sure there's a more unhealthy state to be in!!!! I reckon dead is probably the most unhealthy state to be in! But by that time you're too busy decomposing to care!
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#25 Old 06-19-2006, 01:52 AM
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The Donner Party is mostly myth. There was an excellent story in the New Yorker recently (I think April) about how hard the Donner party tried not to revert to cannabalism. I tried to get you a link but they want money. The animals were totally eaten first-- the oxen, the cows, the horses, the dogs. They were also hunting and ate wild game when it could be found. Bones found at the site by anthropologists were only crushed slivers which had been mechanically ground and boiled over and over to get anything out of them, and of all the genetic material recovered, none was human-- They consider this form of mechanical re-using of waste material a proof of the level of desparation. Someone might have resorted to canibalism, but it was not the majority of the survivors, and the majority of the "survivors" in the camp were children, by the way-- they were large families and the men left to get help. They ate bark, pine needles and anything else they could find-- This is also about half a year's time, not a few weeks. Also, the person who wrote the book, a journalist of the Tabloid variety that this information came from got the information from a woman who was desparately in need of money, and who was all of three years old when the actual event happened. Even her sisters who were older, denied her claims-- she even apologised many years later, I believe-- And yet the lurid details are far more interesting than finding out how these brave people actually did survive. Folks, it wasn't a bunch of cannibals with their teeth filed down, belching. The parents were terrified their kids would not survive-- that's all-- now, so here is a better question: if you had small children in a survival situation, would you let them die rather than eat meat? These were people who would give up their seat on the lifeboat to save their children-- and they did.
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#26 Old 06-19-2006, 02:37 AM
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You eat health? Are you like a virus or something?



HAHA! I'm a humanitarian too...oh no!
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#27 Old 06-19-2006, 02:37 AM
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You eat health? Are you like a virus or something?



HAHA! I'm a humanitarian too...oh no!
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#28 Old 06-19-2006, 02:37 AM
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For survival, I'd eat whatever I could catch easiest and didn't particularly matter to me.



So, if you're a slow runner and get the feeling I don't much like you, don't be stuck around me during the collapse of society.
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#29 Old 06-19-2006, 04:07 AM
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so here is a better question: if you had small children in a survival situation, would you let them die rather than eat meat? These were people who would give up their seat on the lifeboat to save their children-- and they did.

I think that a parent will always fight for the survival of their children. So a definate yes from me.



To do with the initial question, I think in situations where it was DO OR DIE, I would do what had to be done to survive.
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#30 Old 06-19-2006, 05:48 AM
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I think it would greatly upset me to personally take another's life, no matter the species, but if I was faced with certain death, I'm sure I could do it. Hard, yes, impossible, no.

For my kids, I would do whatever I had to. Steal, kill, I wouldn't be able to sit back and do nothing while they died. In fact, I'm not sure I would be able to do nothing while anyone died.

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