Instant Messaging with my mother about not eating cheese/eggs - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 06-17-2006, 06:21 PM
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My mother and I were instant messaging just a little while ago, and she asked me this question:



Mom: You stopped eating cheese and eggs because of the way the animals are treated, correct?

Me: You got it right.

Mom: Have you any idea how the workers who pick fruits and veggies are treated?

Me: Yes.

Mom: Well, isn't that the same thing?



I changed the subject at that point, and she laughed that I tried to get out of a discussion with her. So what was she trying to say, that I should stop eating fruits and veggies too because of the way the workers are treated?



She kinda left me cold with that, and I changed the subject because I didn't know how to respond.



How the hell do I respond to that?

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#2 Old 06-17-2006, 06:26 PM
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The workers aren't murdered for food, are they?
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#3 Old 06-17-2006, 06:28 PM
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Well, first of all, the animals don't have voices to say "No" and can't rally together to call for better living/work conditions. Also, the workers aren't being tortured, pumped with steroids and other chemicals, and kept in tiny, confined spaces waiting for death.



Secondly, your mom is right, they are terrible conditions, but you have to pick your battles. I'd rather fight for someone who has no voice to fight for themselves than someone who is able to voice his/her objection.
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#4 Old 06-17-2006, 06:28 PM
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She'd just say that the dairy cows and egg laying chickens aren't killed, either.

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#5 Old 06-17-2006, 06:33 PM
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But they are taken from their families and pumped with chemicals and confined to tiny cages and mutillated ...
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#6 Old 06-17-2006, 07:11 PM
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She'd just say that the dairy cows and egg laying chickens aren't killed, either.

Yes they are. They're usefulness only lasts a few short years.
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#7 Old 06-17-2006, 07:14 PM
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You could always just, I don't know, agree with her.



"Yeah, it is kind of the same. That's one more reason a lot of people suggest buying your fruit and vegetables locally at a farmer's market, or making sure that you get organic produce whenever possible."
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#8 Old 06-17-2006, 07:25 PM
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Less cruelty is better than more cruelty. Simple as that. Whether meat is eaten, fruits and veggies are going to be eaten as well, and since animals eat grains, you're being more cruel by eating the meat than by not.
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#9 Old 06-17-2006, 07:52 PM
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Less cruelty is better than more cruelty. Simple as that. Whether meat is eaten, fruits and veggies are going to be eaten as well, and since animals eat grains, you're being more cruel by eating the meat than by not.



Uh Huuhh Good point!!
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#10 Old 06-17-2006, 08:11 PM
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the humans can quit/walk away at anytime
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#11 Old 06-17-2006, 08:26 PM
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I'd also like to say that despite my last post, I've never been a big fan of boycotts when it comes to human rights (no surprise to any of the long term members here), and I believe the best thing to do when it comes to improving the life of farm workers is to support them financially by opening up better job opportunities. We need fairer immigration policies for starters.
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#12 Old 06-17-2006, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by animallover7249 View Post

the humans can quit/walk away at anytime



... and have no income, lose their livelihood, starve to death. Don't underestimate the oppression that a large number of field workers live under.



Sorry -I couldn't sit silently on that. I appreciate the overall distinction.
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#13 Old 06-17-2006, 08:38 PM
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You can live happily and healthily without cheese and eggs, right? You can't be optimally healthy without eating fruits and vegetables.



If it was imperative to human health to eat cheese, eggs and meat, we couldn't judge anybody for eating them. Good thing it isn't.
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#14 Old 06-17-2006, 09:34 PM
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You can live happily and healthily without cheese and eggs, right? You can't be optimally healthy without eating fruits and vegetables.



Looks good! I'll go with that!

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#15 Old 06-17-2006, 09:42 PM
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How are workers picking fruits treated badly? Picking apples from a wonderful verdant orchard is a dream for me.
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#16 Old 06-17-2006, 09:48 PM
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How are workers picking fruits treated badly? Picking apples from a wonderful verdant orchard is a dream for me.





ROFL.



Less than minimum wage, no rights, no breaks, sometimes they get no pay and don't know how/can't get help, 12+days (with little to no breaks)...



gosh, what else guys? I'm not even that savvy on the subject and I know it's not some pastoral fantasy of walking around in a white dress leisurely picking apples..
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#17 Old 06-17-2006, 10:23 PM
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ROFL.



Less than minimum wage, no rights, no breaks, sometimes they get no pay and don't know how/can't get help, 12+days (with little to no breaks)...



gosh, what else guys? I'm not even that savvy on the subject and I know it's not some pastoral fantasy of walking around in a white dress leisurely picking apples..



...crop dusting in the fields while you're picking fruit, rape, no housing, no hope of any professional advancement - that's only in the States. Go to other countries from which the US and a good portion of the rest of the "industrialized world" import their fruit, and it gets down to practically slavery, or at least debt servitude.
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#18 Old 06-17-2006, 11:00 PM
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Tell your mom that if she wants you to stop eating fruits and veggies, she then has to hand-make all her own clothes, shoes, housewares, etc. because the poverty-stricken young children living in under developed coutries who produce many of the things we use in daily life are treated very poorly in the sweat shops and then have to go home with their penny-a-day to a house made of mud and no running water.
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#19 Old 06-17-2006, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katt Fink View Post

Tell your mom that if she wants you to stop eating fruits and veggies, she then has to hand-make all her own clothes, shoes, housewares, etc. because the poverty-stricken young children living in under developed coutries who produce many of the things we use in daily life are treated very poorly in the sweat shops and then have to go home with their penny-a-day to a house made of mud and no running water.

Badasssssssssss answer!

"Yes! Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" Auntie Mame
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#20 Old 06-17-2006, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katt Fink View Post

Tell your mom that if she wants you to stop eating fruits and veggies, she then has to hand-make all her own clothes, shoes, housewares, etc. because the poverty-stricken young children living in under developed coutries who produce many of the things we use in daily life are treated very poorly in the sweat shops and then have to go home with their penny-a-day to a house made of mud and no running water.

Badasssssssssss answer!

"Yes! Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" Auntie Mame
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#21 Old 06-17-2006, 11:49 PM
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My mom was sorta fine with my vegetarianism, as long as I was consuming dairy and eggs. But my decision to go vegan makes her a little crazy and she pulls something like this every so often. Sometimes she screws up her face and pleads with me to eat a little cheese and some eggs again because, as she says, then she knows for sure that I'm getting some proper nutrition. I insist that I already do and not to worry. That holds her for a while, and then...

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#22 Old 06-17-2006, 11:55 PM
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Show her all the great evidence out there that dairy products and eggs are worse for your nutritional well-being!
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#23 Old 06-18-2006, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel View Post

...crop dusting in the fields while you're picking fruit, rape, no housing, no hope of any professional advancement - that's only in the States. Go to other countries from which the US and a good portion of the rest of the "industrialized world" import their fruit, and it gets down to practically slavery, or at least debt servitude.



Oh my... that is terrible. Yet that is better in comparison to how dairy cows are treated. But still, the hardship around the world, even in North America, means the world is still dark-ages primitive when you look at the gap between rich and poor.
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#24 Old 06-18-2006, 01:27 AM
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not to make fun or joke of the obvious dire situation animals and humans endure BUT...



...I just can't help thinking this thread would be a great SNL Debbie Downer sketch.



Back to serious though /wipes smurk

What if I had Bessie the cow and Joeye the Goat...they frolic in my pasture and every once in a while I "borrow" a little milk from Bessie...she doesn't mind and appreciates making her utters lighter...



Would that be ok?
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#25 Old 06-18-2006, 02:15 AM
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Yes, that would be okay. The problem is that you'd have to keep Bessie and Joeye knocked up or their milk production would go down drastically.
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#26 Old 06-18-2006, 02:21 AM
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well, Joeye and Bessie would have studly counterparts ofcourse...
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#27 Old 06-18-2006, 02:24 AM
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I'm sure they'd like that... although you'd have quite a few calves and kids running around after a while. I hope you have a lot of acres!
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#28 Old 06-18-2006, 02:27 AM
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ok, my dream is growing expensive... that's what happens when I have insomnia



hmmm nice barn, country home...lake front...on a hill ofcourse...ahhhh
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#29 Old 06-18-2006, 02:55 AM
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I think your mom is more correct then you give her credit. The fruit and vegetable works live under horrible conditions. Especially any fruits that come from southern CA.



Perhaps you can use this as a positive thing for you and your mom to bond over. Maybe you two can get into local produce or if you have a back yard grow vegetables together (every little bit helps).



This realization is what drives many people to go freegan.
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#30 Old 06-18-2006, 08:46 AM
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So I'll say: "You're right, mom. I should be buying more of my produce from the Farmer's market. But I'm still not going back to cheese and eggs."



So there.

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