Dissent -- hope I can post this! - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 04-17-2006, 10:15 PM
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Hello, Veggieboards friends. I am NOT A VEGAN -- I love dairy and eat tons of it. Am I still welcome on these boards, or are they really restricted to vegans only? Why does every recipe say "use vegan equivalents"?



While I am a vegetarian. I could not live without stinky French cheese, cream in my coffee, Parmigiano Stravecchio on my pasta. Since it is perfectly possible to raise animals humanely to produce dairy products, and since most dairy animals would not exist anywhere on the planet today unless humans had some reason to raise them, I question the much larger issue that Vegans usually have going on: the issue of Innocence.



My theory is, most Americans believe they are naturally innocent. More than that -- they believe that Americans are not only naturally innocent, but also naturally good!



Europeans, by contrast, do not generally believe that they are naturally innocent. Europeans tend to be well-educated, resulting in their awareness of human frailty; they tend to know that we are naturally neither good nor bad, but easily led in either direction. I love my European friends for their responsibility -- none of them claim the idiotic "innocence" that Americans seem to demand.
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#2 Old 04-17-2006, 10:25 PM
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Um... okay.



Oot of curiosity, how many "European friends" do you rally have?
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#3 Old 04-17-2006, 10:30 PM
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Last time I checked, you don't have to be vegan to post here.



If that was a requirement, the boards would get a lot quieter than they are now.
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#4 Old 04-17-2006, 10:30 PM
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Umm I am puzzled on the innocence thing since I see innocence as a sweet/blissful type of ignorance which I would like to think I am not given how much I like to research topics or things I do not know/understand.



As for if the board is only for vegans the rules clearly state vegans or vegetarian
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#5 Old 04-17-2006, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanLady View Post


While I am a vegetarian. I could not live without stinky French cheese, cream in my coffee, Parmigiano Stravecchio on my pasta. Since it is perfectly possible to raise animals humanely to produce dairy products, and since most dairy animals would not exist anywhere on the planet today unless humans had some reason to raise them, I question the much larger issue that Vegans usually have going on: the issue of Innocence.



All veg*ns are welcome on this board. Is this meant as a support thread? I have a feeling it is more suitable for the heap, but what do I know.



Anyway, yes is it "possible" for dairy to be farmed humanely but this is almost never the case. Unless you are extremely strict about where you get your dairy (you would have to practically farm it yourself) chances are it is derived from cruel practices.



So was your post a dig at vegans and Americans? Because generalizing all Americans is a dangerous path to take, and I will defend my veganism if you challenge it.
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#6 Old 04-17-2006, 10:49 PM
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Last time I checked, you don't have to be vegan to post here.



If that was a requirement, the boards would get a lot quieter than they are now.



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#7 Old 04-17-2006, 10:52 PM
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I know it sometimes feels like talking about using animal products is not welcome on the boards. It's acceptable to some, and not acceptable to others. I use small amounts of eggs and dairy, but when I am posting recipes or nutrition tips I tend to err on the side of vegan because there are vegans and vegetarians trying to limit their consumption of animal products on the boards.



As to the issue of innocence and it's relation to veg*nism, that is a topic more suited to the compost heap, because people will definetly have divergent opinions.

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#8 Old 04-17-2006, 11:29 PM
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I don't understand the innocence part of your post. You completely lost me there.



But um, yep, us vegetarians are allowed on this vegetarian message board. As for why the recipes say "use vegan equivelents", well, that's for the vegans.
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#9 Old 04-17-2006, 11:48 PM
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So, are you saying Americans are idiotic and not well-educated? You may be right. Most Americans do have to ask what "use vegan equivalents" means.



Ok, was that too harsh? Or was it too subtle?
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#10 Old 04-18-2006, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by kpickell View Post

I don't understand the innocence part of your post. You completely lost me there.



me too.



maybe we're just idiotic Americans? or is it because I'm vegan?
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#11 Old 04-18-2006, 12:47 AM
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I think what BeanLady means is that Americans like to believe that they don't have malicious or evil intentions. But I disagree with the American part, I think most people would like to believe that they do not intentionally try to be malicious or evil. Everyone's equally dilusional

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#12 Old 04-18-2006, 01:06 AM
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huh?



well, i can respond to what i understood...the site is for vegetarians of all kinds! i am lacto ovo--and, yeah, some posts are most definetly pro-vegan, but that's ok! we all have our own personal reasons for being veg... anyway, if you don't want to read certain posts, then don't, and if you don't like the way recipes are listed here, look for another source...



i know others referred this to the compost pile...have you checked it out? its the place to go for issues that are going to turn into a heated debate, argument, etc...this might be welcome there, but the rest of the posts are supposed to offer support/seek support and i don't feel that in your post (jmo)...
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#13 Old 04-18-2006, 01:19 AM
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There are many lacto-ovos here.

Read a few posts, you'll see!

On the recipes section, you'll find a lot of lacto-ovo recipes.

Lacto-ovos are very welcome here.

Let's see if you stay!
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#14 Old 04-18-2006, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanLady View Post

and since most dairy animals would not exist anywhere on the planet today unless humans had some reason to raise them

So what? So it's always better to exist than to not exist? I guess contraception should be banned.

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upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#15 Old 04-18-2006, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BeanLady View Post


and since most dairy animals would not exist anywhere on the planet today unless humans had some reason to raise them



Most 'meat' animals would not exist anywhere on the planet today unless humans had some reason to raise them.



Not a dig at you, just stating a fact.
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#16 Old 04-18-2006, 04:28 AM
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I really understand where you are coming from. I am an Ovo-Lacto too, and I would like to see a good cheese and eggs thread.
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#17 Old 04-18-2006, 05:04 AM
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I love how a L/O can post vegan bash threads but the minute a vegan brings up the cruelty of the dairy and egg industry we're the vegan police.



that said, enjoy the stinky cheese a cow and calf suffered and died for.



have a nice day!
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#18 Old 04-18-2006, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by purrpelle View Post




that said, enjoy the stinky cheese a cow and calf suffered and died for.



have a nice day!



lol! btw, remember you all, id say dairy and eggs are 1000's of times more hellish and cruel than the relatively compassionate meat industry... just something to remember as a goal in the future...



but back to the topic, youre very welcome here, since you are on the path to a very compassionate lifestyle! and thats way better than like, um 99% of the world!
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#19 Old 04-18-2006, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by purrpelle View Post


that said, enjoy the stinky cheese a cow and calf suffered and died for.



have a nice day!



Don't forget the cream in coffee.



Speaking of which, I just realized the thought of that makes me sick. What a waste of coffee.
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#20 Old 04-18-2006, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Scythe View Post

Don't forget the cream in coffee.



Speaking of which, I just realized the thought of that makes me sick. What a waste of coffee.





is it still vegan then, if i flavor my coffee with chicken piss?
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#21 Old 04-18-2006, 05:38 AM
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We are all Vegitarian are we not? Does someone think they are better than someone else because of some dogma they may or may not have been fed by PETA? Or some other non-profit organization? Why are we fighting? Can't we all just get along? Lets all join hands and sing songs of peace!
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#22 Old 04-18-2006, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Gita View Post

We are all Vegitarian are we not? Does someone think they are better than someone else because of some dogma they may or may not have been fed by PETA? Or some other non-profit organization? Why are we fighting? Can't we all just get along? Lets all join hands and sing songs of peace!



1. i don't think I am better than anyone because I'm vegan. but apperently some people have guilty consciences that make them defensive toward vegans.

2. i think that anyone attempting to reduce the amount of animal products in their diet or lifestyle are teerific.

3. the OP started it.
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#23 Old 04-18-2006, 05:52 AM
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dogma is something that cant really be proven in your face... its all faith.. in a vegan perspective, everything mentioned so far, is really about as true as the sky is blue... theres not much dogma involed... but like i said, im not saying im better, i said that its cool that youve (hopefully) started on the path to a total compassionate lifestyle! im just trying to look on the positive side, and maybe hope to plant some seeds in some new minds that there is still a ways to go...
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#24 Old 04-18-2006, 05:57 AM
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is it still vegan then, if i flavor my coffee with chicken piss?



Feel free to try, but it might be a tad difficult.
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#25 Old 04-18-2006, 06:06 AM
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well ill try anyway, i heard on a special episode of fox news that there is some kind of health benefit to it! and since they told me so....
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#26 Old 04-18-2006, 06:10 AM
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Yeah... coz it's just SO HARD to replace margarine with butter.

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#27 Old 04-18-2006, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Gita View Post

We are all Vegitarian are we not? Does someone think they are better than someone else because of some dogma they may or may not have been fed by PETA? Or some other non-profit organization? Why are we fighting? Can't we all just get along? Lets all join hands and sing songs of peace!



I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony.....
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#28 Old 04-18-2006, 06:17 AM
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Would you believe that some people honestly believe margarine is plastic?



Yes, children! Gather round, join hands with one another, and sing songs of world peas!
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#29 Old 04-18-2006, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gita View Post

We are all Vegitarian are we not? Does someone think they are better than someone else because of some dogma they may or may not have been fed by PETA? Or some other non-profit organization? Why are we fighting? Can't we all just get along? Lets all join hands and sing songs of peace!



1. the original poster started this thread.

2. please prove this dogma theory and that PETA 'fed' it to someone

3. please show where fighting occurred

4. it is undisputed that most [probably 99.5%] dairy and egg sources are cruel, engaging in malicious acts such as rape, forced starvation [called molting], confinement/enslavement, and finally, murder to end the poor animals' misery



5. would the lacto-ovo vegetarians here like to read about how much i love to eat meat, lots of it, for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and sometimes even a drop of meat extract in my coffee just for kicks? i highly doubt it. so if you want to go about spewing and chatting about the things you do in your life that are cruel and selfish, don't expect EVERYONE to agree. it's your choice to do it, but just as you talk openly, so can we, the people who care about animals and want to end the systemic killing of said creatures.



6. please don't act as if these comments were unsolicited. anyone who thinks that, go read the first post, stop, think, reflect a bit, and you'll see why vegans and other vegetarians respond.
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#30 Old 04-18-2006, 06:23 AM
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You'd be surprised how many Americans are perfectly aware of where their food comes from and how the dairy/egg giving animals are treated and just don't care. It's not a belief of innonence, as you suggest, but simply the selfishess you seem to unfairly pin on your European friends.

That said, there are a few L/O recipes in the recipe section (I fully admit I haven't the time to scan them all) but most may be vegan because when people go vegan sometimes they need lots of help coming up with menu ideas. (Of course I'm referring to me here lol)

Why not try a few vegan recipes? You might be surprised how little you miss the stinky cheese in a *really good recipe. I'm not suggesting you go vegan, for the record, all I'm saying is you might be surprised if you try some of those offensive vegan recipes.

Just a thought.

Mary

PS your post came off as very defensive.
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