Can I, like, give you guys my money? (giving money to people who buy meat) - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 03-29-2006, 10:15 AM
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Does anyone else here have a hangup about paying money to ppl who eat hamburgers?



It's like, "Hey thanks for taking care of my cat. Here's $25. Go buy yourself a steak." Isn't that basically what we're doing when we pay omnis for goods & services?



So anyway, I think we vegs ought to form an economic micro-culture where we support only each other. We'll need a yellow pages business directory (call it the "green pages" maybe? nah too cheezy). Has this been done already? Anyway, I'm just thinkin out loud again.
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#2 Old 03-29-2006, 10:25 AM
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I just mentioned this very same thing yesterday on Vegan Ink's intro thread.





https://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...ad.php?t=51751
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#3 Old 03-29-2006, 10:29 AM
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****. Totally false advertising.
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#4 Old 03-29-2006, 10:32 AM
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****. Totally false advertising.



what do you mean?
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#5 Old 03-29-2006, 10:33 AM
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Purp: Hey cool so I'm not totally nutso. I really think the idea may work. I remember stumbling on a website once... it was more like a free-trade exchange of goods & services between vegetarians, stuff like babysitting, a few art services, etc. But it was mainly local (somewhere in the Pacific Northwest, I think). I'm all for it, but I think it should be a legitimate economic network, and global, if possible.
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#6 Old 03-29-2006, 10:38 AM
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I know that you're just thinking outloud, but here's my take on this.



For me, being vegetarian is a personal choice I do not force upon anyone else. (of course, I love it when my friends and families follow my example and join the veg ranks, but in no way do i ever judge them for eating something I used to do myself.)



What's good for me might not be good for someone else - its impossible to live in western society without financially supporting things you don't like (for example, most environmentalists couldn't live without occasionally turn on the heat or the A/C, unless they all lived in san diego - in which case, they would be wasting natural resources by living in an area where water has to be pumped hundreds and hundreds of miles just to get there... and of course san diego has terrible public transportation, etc... there is no ideal way to deal with this.)



In my opinion, if you're so militant that you want to be ostracized from the society you live in, you are actually doing your cause more harm than good - because you won't be exposing veg people to your lifestyle, and, in the few occasions where you refuse to even give them money for services rendered because they might buy a hamburger with it... well lets just say you catch more flies with honey.



Basically, if your idea is to live YOURSELF completely cruelty free - sure, climb a mountain with some vegans and live in isolation. But if your goal is to OVERALL reduce environmental waste/animal suffering... I think you have to live in society in order to change it.
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#7 Old 03-29-2006, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by DeflatorMouse View Post

Does anyone else here have a hangup about paying money to ppl who eat hamburgers?



It's like, "Hey thanks for taking care of my cat. Here's $25. Go buy yourself a steak." Isn't that basically what we're doing when we pay omnis for goods & services?



So anyway, I think we vegs ought to form an economic micro-culture where we support only each other. We'll need a yellow pages business directory (call it the "green pages" maybe? nah too cheezy). Has this been done already? Anyway, I'm just thinkin out loud again.



i think it's a great idea.



but i think a potential problem could be that just because someone's veg*n, doen't mean they are a great lawyer/doctor/manicurist.



plus, veg*ns are so spread out. I can't find a veg*n to date let alone refinance my mortgage.
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#8 Old 03-29-2006, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bstutzma View Post

I know that you're just thinking outloud, but here's my take on this.



For me, being vegetarian is a personal choice I do not force upon anyone else. (of course, I love it when my friends and families follow my example and join the veg ranks, but in no way do i ever judge them for eating something I used to do myself.)



What's good for me might not be good for someone else - its impossible to live in western society without financially supporting things you don't like (for example, most environmentalists couldn't live without occasionally turn on the heat or the A/C, unless they all lived in san diego - in which case, they would be wasting natural resources by living in an area where water has to be pumped hundreds and hundreds of miles just to get there... and of course san diego has terrible public transportation, etc... there is no ideal way to deal with this.)



In my opinion, if you're so militant that you want to be ostracized from the society you live in, you are actually doing your cause more harm than good - because you won't be exposing veg people to your lifestyle, and, in the few occasions where you refuse to even give them money for services rendered because they might buy a hamburger with it... well lets just say you catch more flies with honey.



Basically, if your idea is to live YOURSELF completely cruelty free - sure, climb a mountain with some vegans and live in isolation. But if your goal is to OVERALL reduce environmental waste/animal suffering... I think you have to live in society in order to change it.



I don't think it could be to that extreme, but If I had the choice between buying food from A&P and my local HFS, I go for the HFS first. or if i had a choice between a regular cleaning service and a cleaning service that uses only biodegradable cleaning products, I would choose the latter.



I think the idea is to promote veg*n businesses and services that don't normally get promoted. there are tons of online vegan supply stores, but I have yet to see a vegan financial planner.... I don't have the time or the knowledge to check that every company that i have $ invested in under my 401K is cruelty free, but having a banker who does would be a great advantage.(besides, I don't even know what a 401k is)



it doesn't have to work on the barter system either, BTW.
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#9 Old 03-29-2006, 10:49 AM
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I don't think it could work. I do see where you're coming from, though. But remember, you're paying them for the specific service, not to go out and eat meat. And they'd do it even without you giving them money, anyway.
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#10 Old 03-29-2006, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by purrpelle View Post

plus, veg*ns are so spread out. I can't find a veg*n to date let alone refinance my mortgage.



LOL no kidding. It'll be a big inconvenience to say the least. For example, I recently bought some paper for my printer. I could've walked down to the Staples and picked up a ream for $10, but instead I wanted it to be from an eco-friendly paper company. I ended up spending $50 to have it shipped from Phoenix (in 100% post-consumer recycled packaging, of course ). A big pain in the ass, but still a great feeling.



Elena, that makes sense; I'm not going to change anyone. But I still think it's possible to limit my support of their lifestyle, and in so doing, I can reward the good guys. It's especially effective with big ticket items (house, car, boat, etc).



bstutzma, I hear you. But I know it can be done without going to such extremes as you mention. Check out the Jain community (uber vegetarian Hindus in India), they do exactly what I'm talking about--limiting their economic commerce to within their own group, and according to all the articles I've read, Jains are very affluent, industrious members of society. Hardly the mountaintop gurus you'd expect.



Or for that matter, the Jewish community is very supportive of its own, and we see how successful it's made them. So historically, it's possible to forge economic exclusivity within your "clan" and still flourish.



Update: Hey I just did a google search on "vegetarian business directory", and I got a few sites that may be worthwhile. Still, I wonder if the VB community can put up its own, based on the great membership we've got here. Maybe we can start with a "classifieds" section.
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#11 Old 03-29-2006, 11:21 AM
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the other problem :



if you look in any "classified" section of any mag there are about 900 ads from wackos and 2 from legit businesses.



I think that to do this we would have to screen the businesses before allowing them to place an ad.



it's not about punishing the omni's. it's about supporting our own when possible.
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#12 Old 03-29-2006, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by DeflatorMouse View Post

LOL no kidding. It'll be a big inconvenience to say the least. For example, I recently bought some paper for my printer. I could've walked down to the Staples and picked up a ream for $10, but instead I wanted it to be from an eco-friendly paper company. I ended up spending $50 to have it shipped from Phoenix (in 100% post-consumer recycled packaging, of course ). A big pain in the ass, but still a great feeling.



Elena, that makes sense; I'm not going to change anyone. But I still think it's possible to limit my support of their lifestyle, and in so doing, I can reward the good guys. It's especially effective with big ticket items (house, car, boat, etc).



bstutzma, I hear you. But I know it can be done without going to such extremes as you mention. Check out the Jain community (uber vegetarian Hindus in India), they do exactly what I'm talking about--limiting their economic commerce to within their own group, and according to all the articles I've read, Jains are very affluent, industrious members of society. Hardly the mountaintop gurus you'd expect.



Or for that matter, the Jewish community is very supportive of its own, and we see how successful it's made them. So historically, it's possible to forge economic exclusivity within your "clan" and still flourish.



Update: Hey I just did a google search on "vegetarian business directory", and I got a few sites that may be worthwhile. Still, I wonder if the VB community can put up its own, based on the great membership we've got here. Maybe we can start with a "classifieds" section.



if you had it shipped from Phoenix you wasted a lot of fuel, and polluted the air...I would have walked to Staples.
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#13 Old 03-29-2006, 11:32 AM
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Hmmm... I'm not sure if this is what you had in mind, but one day quite some time ago, I came across a group that was going to try to purchase an island and set up a "veganic" commune. I forget how I came across that website, but they were going to require a minimum payment from each person. If I find it again, I'll post the web address. I don't know if they were legitimate or not- I suppose it could have been some sort of scheme to take people's money. I didn't really check them out.

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#14 Old 03-29-2006, 11:43 AM
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the other problem :



if you look in any "classified" section of any mag there are about 900 ads from wackos and 2 from legit businesses.



Yeah, that would be a problem. I'm sure there would be a ton of posers. If you go to vegdining.com and check out some of the restaurants submitted as "vegetarian/vegan" you'll see that a lot of them are just regular omni sandwich shops.



That's why it has to be published by a source that takes the time to verify each listing. Peta is good about that. Unfortunately, Peta's biz listings focus on cruelty free-processes, not cruelty-free people (they heavily endorsed the Burger King veggie burger).



Well, crap then. I guess here's something else I need to do myself.
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#15 Old 03-29-2006, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bstutzma View Post


In my opinion, if you're so militant that you want to be ostracized from the society you live in, you are actually doing your cause more harm than good - because you won't be exposing veg people to your lifestyle, and, in the few occasions where you refuse to even give them money for services rendered because they might buy a hamburger with it... well lets just say you catch more flies with honey.



Basically, if your idea is to live YOURSELF completely cruelty free - sure, climb a mountain with some vegans and live in isolation. But if your goal is to OVERALL reduce environmental waste/animal suffering... I think you have to live in society in order to change it.



Well said.



Although I do understand the desire to only economically support those who are not omnis. Interesting thread!
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#16 Old 03-29-2006, 11:50 AM
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Hmmm... I'm not sure if this is what you had in mind, but one day quite some time ago, I came across a group that was going to try to purchase an island and set up a "veganic" commune.



That's really interesting. Actually when I started this thread I was thinking about real estate & buying a home. The thought of paying $200k+ to an omni is a little sickening. I'd rather see that money go to someone I can respect.



I'm not really much on the commune lifestyle (gotta have some breathing space, knowhadamean?) But I'd love to hear more about it.
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#17 Old 03-29-2006, 11:53 AM
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I was thinking more of a website where legitimate veg*n businesses could advertise and perhaps barter services.



I'm not into living on on commune or anything....
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#18 Old 03-29-2006, 12:00 PM
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That's really interesting. Actually when I started this thread I was thinking about real estate & buying a home. The thought of paying $200k+ to an omni is a little sickening. I'd rather see that money go to someone I can respect.



I'm not really much on the commune lifestyle (gotta have some breathing space, knowhadamean?) But I'd love to hear more about it.



I think this is the site I found before, but it's closed for maintenance right now:



http://www.veganic.com/



About breathing space: I think that was why they were asking for a comparatively large share of funds from each investor in this venture. They were limiting it to maybe 20(?) families/dwellings.

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#19 Old 03-29-2006, 12:04 PM
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That is ridiculous you are paying for a service, not 'giving' them money. Who cares what they eat, they've been good enough to do a job for you. Don't be so predjudice. I am just imagining you requesting a vegetarian gas man, as you can't possibly have someone fixing your boiler who's lifestyle you don't approve of.
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#20 Old 03-29-2006, 12:07 PM
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Well said.



Although I do understand the desire to only economically support those who are not omnis. Interesting thread!



i don't think anyone was suggesting to be so militant to exclude omni's from our society and live in a cave. obviously it would be impossible to just use Veg*n owned services and busineses. where bstutzma got that i don't know.



I was just thinking the next time my cat needed her shots I could take her to a veg*n vet if it was conveinient and the quality of service the same, but where would I find such a vet? the VEGPAGES of course!



now, to find someone to do all the work....
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#21 Old 03-29-2006, 12:09 PM
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That is ridiculous you are paying for a service, not 'giving' them money. Who cares what they eat, they've been good enough to do a job for you. Don't be so predjudice. I am just imagining you requesting a vegetarian gas man, as you can't possibly have someone fixing your boiler who's lifestyle you don't approve of.



you are completly missing the point.
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#22 Old 03-29-2006, 12:09 PM
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That is ridiculous you are paying for a service, not 'giving' them money. Who cares what they eat, they've been good enough to do a job for you. Don't be so predjudice. I am just imagining you requesting a vegetarian gas man, as you can't possibly have someone fixing your boiler who's lifestyle you don't approve of.



Whoa there pard'ner. The idea is that this is an incentive for people/businesses who adhere to the veg philosophy. It's the same as awarding scholarships to kids who get straight As. Are you going to call that "prejudiced"?



And no, of course I wouldn't say it to an omni's face. That's the whole point of having a veg directory, so we can do it quietly amongst ourselves.



EDIT: I see how you got confused. SOMEONE EDITED MY TITLE

I'm going to change it back so it's not so misleading!



EDIT AGAIN: Oh great. I can't change it. MODDDDD!

pls change the title to "Can I, like, give you guys my money? (supporting vegs)"
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#23 Old 03-29-2006, 12:09 PM
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Well, big bells and paisley are back in, so why not start a commune?
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#24 Old 03-29-2006, 12:10 PM
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Hmm, thought-provoking idea. Just off the cuff, one issue I see is that we all have different areas of foci--some are most concerned with animal rights/welfare; some with socially responsible fair trade business practices; still others with energy consumption and renewable sources. I don't like the idea of focusing on just one area--you know, sort of like the "meat-eating environmentalist." To me, it's important to consider all of the relevant areas, and animals aren't the only one. Even if Wal-Mart went all veg, I still wouldn't shop there. Something can be veg*n and still be full of detrimental chemicals, come in loads of packaging, send profits to the evil guys, and be produced by slave labor.



Have you checked out the National Green Pages from Co-Op America? Closest thing I'm aware of to what you're talking about (without moving to a commune ).

http://www.coopamerica.org/pubs/greenpages/
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#25 Old 03-29-2006, 12:10 PM
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Deflatormouse,



Buying something from Pheonix is not really green is it? Unless, of course, you live in Pheonix that is...



It's like buying your products from a supermarket and finding that your shopping basket contains items that have flown in from all over the world - enough miles to take you to the moon and back. The pollution from the vehicle that transported your 'special' Pheonix paper is long gone from this earth - its now just chocking a few aliens......Hey - I know you meant well...LOL.
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#26 Old 03-29-2006, 12:25 PM
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if you had it shipped from Phoenix you wasted a lot of fuel, and polluted the air...I would have walked to Staples.

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Buying something from Pheonix is not really green is it? Unless, of course, you live in Pheonix that is...

I knew some joker(s) would catch me on that.

Well here's my justification: pollution happened one way or the other, whether it was subsidized by Staples or Treecycle. (After all, staples has delivery trucks, too.) So pollution cancels itself out of the equation.



If, on the other hand, there were a company who uses sailboats to deliver their paper, you can bet I'd go with them. Otherwise, pollution falls into the "it'll getcha either way" category, and it doesn't affect my decision. So really, the only difference between Staples & Treecycle is the cost.
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#27 Old 03-29-2006, 12:39 PM
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I knew some joker(s) would catch me on that.

Well here's my justification: pollution happened one way or the other, whether it was subsidized by Staples or Treecycle. (After all, staples has delivery trucks, too.) So pollution cancels itself out of the equation.



If, on the other hand, there were a company who uses sailboats to deliver their paper, you can bet I'd go with them. Otherwise, pollution falls into the "it'll getcha either way" category, and it doesn't affect my decision. So really, the only difference between Staples & Treecycle is the cost.





I was kidding really. we all do what we can.
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#28 Old 03-29-2006, 12:43 PM
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If you want, you can give me your money.
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#29 Old 03-29-2006, 12:45 PM
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@purp Phew.



@iso Haha, actually that was the whole idea UNTIL SOMEONE EDITED MY TITLE

I'd be much happier giving my $$ to you folks than some random omnis. So um, whatcha sellin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaT View Post

Hmm, thought-provoking idea. Just off the cuff, one issue I see is that we all have different areas of foci--some are most concerned with animal rights/welfare; some with socially responsible fair trade business practices; still others with energy consumption and renewable sources. I don't like the idea of focusing on just one area--you know, sort of like the "meat-eating environmentalist." To me, it's important to consider all of the relevant areas, and animals aren't the only one. Even if Wal-Mart went all veg, I still wouldn't shop there. Something can be veg*n and still be full of detrimental chemicals, come in loads of packaging, send profits to the evil guys, and be produced by slave labor.

Wow, that's right. Thoroughly depressing, but right.

There is really no way of ensuring the good intentions of your $$$ unless you personally know the ppl you're paying, and this is hard to do on a global basis. I guess the directory will have to include a brief bio of each company, stating their goals and philosophies. Then the consumers can make up their minds whom they trust.

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Have you checked out the National Green Pages from Co-Op America? Closest thing I'm aware of to what you're talking about (without moving to a commune ).

http://www.coopamerica.org/pubs/greenpages/

Thanks for the link, that's a good place to start!
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#30 Old 03-29-2006, 12:50 PM
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Well, big bells and paisley are back in, so why not start a commune?



No way am i wearing bells. I am 5'2" and have a big back porch if you get my drift. I look awful in bell bottoms.
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