More Questions About Vegetarian/Vegan Choices - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 07-14-2005, 02:58 PM
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Okay. So there are some things that I have been wondering, and just curious as to the "why".



Why is it such a bad thing to eat eggs? I'm not a huge egg eater anyway, so giving them up wouldn't be hard for me personally. I guess I just don't understand this.



Also, why is it so bad to eat dairy? I remember reading something about milking cows isn't good for them, or something to that effect.



As a new vegetarian, things can get a little confusing sometimes. And I'm the kind of person that likes to know all the sides of the story before making the decision that I feel is right for me. (And I never judge anyone who makes a different decision for themselves.)



Someone did explain the raw food thing to me, and that makes sense. I mean, anything that is natural and from the earth is going to contain more nutrients than something that has been cooked. That stands to reason.



Another thing I've been wondering - why do vegans not eat honey or use products with beeswax or lanolin in them? I could be wrong, as I'm just starting to learn....but it doesn't hurt the sheep when they shave the wool, does it? And it doesn't hurt the bees to eat the honey either, right? I'm not challenging this or trying to be bratty about it, I just honestly don't understand the reasoning behind it, and am trying to understand it.



Thanks again to everyone who has helped me out here so far. I love researching all of my options, and learning what is what is the land of vegetarianism/veganism.
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#2 Old 07-14-2005, 03:25 PM
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Wow, I don't even know where to begin. I would start by watching Peaceable Kingdom & there are other films but start w/ that. There are TONS of books out there & there's a forum discussion on "Dominion" actually. I would get a free veggie starter kit as well. You definitely need to learn about what is going on 1st, then form an opinion. This is why VB is here & hopefully you can learn from others too.
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#3 Old 07-14-2005, 06:44 PM
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I'm others here will disagree with me, but I don't think there's anything inherently harmful about milking cows. The problem (from an animal rights point of view) is that the vast majority of milk is producted in factory farms that treat cows very cruely. I don't know too much about this stuff, but check out the movie mentioned above for more details.



Personally I avoid milk because I'm healthier when I don't drink it.



Edited to add: It's very much the same for eggs. Most eggs are produced by chickens in factory farms. Even the ones labelled "free-range" are sometimes just factory farms that allow the animals outside once in a while. One of the common practices on these factory farms is to painfully remove the beaks of the chickens, to keep them from killing each other when put into cages that are too small.
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#4 Old 07-14-2005, 08:44 PM
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To increase milk production, farmers inject cows with synthetic growth hormones, usually causing the cow's udders to become so heavy they drag on the ground.



On most farms, cows stand on concrete, chained by the neck, and are milked by machines. Their stalls are so small, they can't turn around.



Calves are always taken from their parents within days of birth. Male calves head off to the veal crates, female calves are slaughtered outright or follow their mother's footsteps.



A cow normally lives about 22 years, but dairy cows usually live 4-6 years.
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#5 Old 07-14-2005, 09:18 PM
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Here's a little something I made about a month ago about the chicken industries: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/18971541/ you might wanna read the bit about battery hens.

"Through the centuries, we have projected onto the wolf the qualities we most despise and fear in ourselves." ~ Barry Lopez.
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#6 Old 07-14-2005, 09:32 PM
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I have avoided eggs because of what is done to the chickens on factory farms - forced molting (starvation to produce more & bigger eggs), being kept in tiny crampt caged, stacked atop each other, defecating on each other's heads, having their beaks cut off so as not to peck each other to death, being eaten alive by rats.



In order to produce milk, a creature must be pregnant. Dairy cows are artificially inseminated in order to keep their milk flowing, and their calves are stolen at birth and sold to the veal industry.



It's not that milk and eggs are so bad, it's that what's done to chickens and cows is so awful.



Honey is a bee's food. They make it for their own use. For their own survival. We steal their food and feed them sugar-substitute instead. In my book, that's not chill.
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#7 Old 07-15-2005, 01:40 AM
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Charity, I thought you stopped being vegan? Sorry if I am wrong.



I avoid eggs and dairy for the same reasons Charity mentioned. Definitely not cool. I would buy cage-free, but I just don't like the idea of using an animal's eggs. Grosses me out. And if I were a cow, I wouldn't want some human using my breasts for milk, even I was treated "nicely" beforehand.



And about the sheep's wool...shaving human hair doesn't hurt either, but I wouldn't appreciate someone coming at me with a razor, then proceeding to wear my hair.



I just think the golden rule should apply toward our animal friends as well as humans.
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#8 Old 07-15-2005, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountessKerouac View Post


And about the sheep's wool...shaving human hair doesn't hurt either, but I wouldn't appreciate someone coming at me with a razor, then proceeding to wear my hair.



actually i've read that shearing is not always painless, since time and effort are something people in any business seek to minimize i'm sure mishaps happen (ie: lacerations)
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#9 Old 07-15-2005, 05:07 AM
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Lacerations are very common. It takes, what a minute or two to shear a sheep? Think of the cuts and nicks you'd get if you shaved your legs that quickly. It used to be common practice to whack hot tar on the cut to stop it bleeding, but I think (hope?) they use something more modern these days. The average shearer goes through hundreds of sheep a day, they take no time for niceties.

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#10 Old 07-15-2005, 05:09 AM
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Here is a pro-shearing website listing average times and such like. It's got a piccie of a robot shearer! http://www.sheep101.info/shearing.html It says the average time is less than two minutes.

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#11 Old 07-15-2005, 05:14 AM
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Sorry, three posts in a row, I know. But read this page! http://www.sheep101.info/products.html Check down the bottom! I didn't know sheep were in so many things.

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#12 Old 07-15-2005, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

Sorry, three posts in a row, I know. But read this page! http://www.sheep101.info/products.html Check down the bottom! I didn't know sheep were in so many things.



mmm...sheep placenta capsules...gross!
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#13 Old 07-15-2005, 05:33 AM
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I expect dead sheep or other animals to be in such products. I didn't expect them to be on toothbrushes and pens.

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#14 Old 07-15-2005, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

I expect dead sheep or other animals to be in such products. I didn't expect them to be on toothbrushes and pens.



Yeah, or tennis balls (?)



I was just wondering why _anyone_ would eat sheep placenta capsules?



But then again, I suppose it's not too different from cod liver oil...or any meat for that matter, just sounds pretty wrong.
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#15 Old 07-15-2005, 05:54 AM
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The sheep placenta hair conditioners and face creams are the ones that get me. I mean, who the hell thought up that? How revolting!

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#16 Old 07-15-2005, 06:02 AM
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Yeah, can you imagine helping deliver little twin lambs, then afterwards going 'OOoh, look at that placenta, that would be lovely smeared all over my face'? Bleurgh!!!
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#17 Old 07-15-2005, 06:16 AM
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Kiz, what ingredient is sheep placenta?
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#18 Old 07-15-2005, 06:19 AM
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It doesn't say what it's called in the final product, but here is the list from the website (info supplied by the American Sheep Industry Association)





.





By-products from Sheep and Wool

Adhesives

Agar Media

Antifreeze

Bandage strips

Baseballs and tennis balls

Billiard table covers

Bone China

Brake fluid

Buttons

Candles

Cellophane wrap and tape

Chewing gum

Collagen and bone for plastic

surgery

Combs and tooth brushes

Cosmetics

Crayons

Crochet needles

Dice

Drum Heads

Explosives

Felt hats

Felt tip pens

Fertilizer

Filters

Floor wax

Gelatin capsules

Gelatin desserts

Glue

Horn and bone handles

Horse bits

Industrial oils and lubricants

Instrument Strings

Insulation

Jewelry

Knife handles

Make up

Marshmellow

Medicines

Mink Oil

Mulch

Oleo Margarine and Shortening

Paints

Paraffin

Pet food ingredients

Photographic film

Piano keys

Plywood and paneling

Powder horns

Rattlesnake anti-venum

Rennet for Cheese

Rubber products

Sausage casings

Shampoo and conditioner

Shaving Cream

Sheep Placenta Capsules

Sheep Placenta Cream

Skin cream

Shoe cream

Soap

Surgical sutures

Syringes

Tennis Racquet Strings

Tires

Upholstery

Wallpaper and walllpaper paste
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#19 Old 07-15-2005, 06:24 AM
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The face cream and hair conditioner I saw was quite proudly called something like "Placenta Face Cream, with placenta!". I think it's a specialty ingredient, I'm fairly sure they don't put it in you're usual face cream. I've also seen "Henna with placenta" for sale, too.

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#20 Old 07-15-2005, 09:50 AM
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Wow. I've learned a lot today!



I never knew that taking the honey from bees was taking their food?!?!?! That's horrible!



And I never knew they treated sheep so inhumanely too! I was shocked when I read that list!!! (Thank you for providing that list BTW.)



And thank you for the links to the other pages as well. I knew about the cruel treatment of chickens, cows, and pigs, and that's one reason why we became vegetarians. I guess I failed to think about the eggs being obtained in the same inhumane manner.



I'd be interested in learning more about the honey thing. They are actually fed sugar substitute when the honey is harvested? That just blows me away.



I may just end up becoming an au natural woman of the earth afterall. I used to think it was silly, now I'm thinking it's neccessary!
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#21 Old 07-15-2005, 10:03 AM
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I love your attitude dylansmom. You should definitely be proud. And if I didn't say it earlier, welcome!
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#22 Old 07-15-2005, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madder View Post

It doesn't say what it's called in the final product, but here is the list from the website (info supplied by the American Sheep Industry Association)





.





By-products from Sheep and Wool

Adhesives

Agar Media

Antifreeze

Bandage strips

Baseballs and tennis balls

Billiard table covers

Bone China

Brake fluid

Buttons

Candles

Cellophane wrap and tape

Chewing gum

Collagen and bone for plastic

surgery

Combs and tooth brushes

Cosmetics

Crayons

Crochet needles

Dice

Drum Heads

Explosives

Felt hats

Felt tip pens

Fertilizer

Filters

Floor wax

Gelatin capsules

Gelatin desserts

Glue

Horn and bone handles

Horse bits

Industrial oils and lubricants

Instrument Strings

Insulation

Jewelry

Knife handles

Make up

Marshmellow

Medicines

Mink Oil

Mulch

Oleo Margarine and Shortening

Paints

Paraffin

Pet food ingredients

Photographic film

Piano keys

Plywood and paneling

Powder horns

Rattlesnake anti-venum

Rennet for Cheese

Rubber products

Sausage casings

Shampoo and conditioner

Shaving Cream

Sheep Placenta Capsules

Sheep Placenta Cream

Skin cream

Shoe cream

Soap

Surgical sutures

Syringes

Tennis Racquet Strings

Tires

Upholstery

Wallpaper and walllpaper paste



This is quite a list.
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#23 Old 07-15-2005, 10:14 PM
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Don't forget haggis! Isn't that sheep intestines?
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