Sometimes i feel like i'm the only person... (who isn't pro-PETA) - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 06-22-2005, 07:18 PM
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well said lauratiara
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#32 Old 06-22-2005, 08:17 PM
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#33 Old 06-22-2005, 08:35 PM
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I will show my support for PETA too. I sometimes find their campaigns to be distasteful but they are competing with flashy movies and video games and our immense pop culture and they have to be shocking to be heard.



Most everyone in our society knows what PETA stands for and I think that is quite an accomplishment for a 'cause'. Their cause is the same as alot of ours here - animals are being killed unnecessarily and I say do what you gotta do to get the message out there.



I am a peaceful, non-radical veg*n and I am thankful they are out there really making noise for the animals.
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#34 Old 06-22-2005, 09:36 PM
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I really don't like PETA's marketing. "Oh look, here's a naked woman - Go vegetarian" is pretty much their style, and I think that style is rubbish. Either that, or it'll be some kind of shock tactic, which will just make non-vegetarians resent them even more, and what surprises me is that PETA continue to do this, even though the criticisms keep flying in from all directions. They just don't take any notice of how unsuccessful their campaigning is, and that is what irritates me about them the most.



I don't see why anyone would ever think that someone was being "wishy-washy" over the issue. There are a lot of grey areas, and it is bloody stupid to see thinks in terms of black and white. There are many shades of grey, not to mention a whole rainbow of colours, on almost any issue.



And i'm happy to sit in the middle on this issue. I have never met anyone who is offended that some people sit in the middle on certain issues. in fact, the vast majority of people i know look up to people who sit in the middle, as it allows them to see both sides.
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#35 Old 06-22-2005, 09:44 PM
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If I required myself to approve of everything an organization did in advancement of positions I support, I'd likely be a member of nothing. I'm actually a $-contributing member of too many AR/W, political and environment orgs, none of which have succeeded in never pissing me off.

Keep on freepin' on

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#36 Old 06-22-2005, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by lauratiara View Post

You don't have to agree with everything an organization does to acknowledge the great work that they do.

Like it or not, PETA is the single most effective AR organization that there is, I applaud the enourmous positive effect that they have had, and will continue to have on the AR movement.

I don't find PETA to be anti-feminist, one campaign using Pam Anderson in a lettuce bikini can get a lot of people's attention. Men and women pose in PETA's more racier campaigns, and by their own choosing. I also don't see how Peta persecutes overweight people. They have had plus size people in their various campaigns.

It is the animals who are being exploited horrifyingly, not PETA activists.



http://www.lettuceladies.com/ Peta's lettuce ladies

http://www.lettuceladies.com/broc.html & broccoli boys!



A multitude of tactics need to be used to appeal to people of all ages, all races, all sexes, to have a broader and more effective mass appeal.

It is not that easy to get people's attention in this world while we are constantly being inundated with ads and images from mass media. PETA is getting people's attention, and on the whole, they have a remarkably positive impact in the way people view animals.



in my opinion, a woman like pamela anderson is acting out her own internalized sexism. yes, women can be sexist towards other women and themselves.



one of peta's main appeals to the public revolves around promising weight loss, appealing to the same vulnerabilities as ads for slimfast, jenny craig, or weight loss surgery/gastric bypass. if you haven't noticed their campaigns against fat, then i'm afraid you haven't been looking very hard.



i agree that peta has made great strides towards making things better for industry animals. but i will never support an organization that supports (and even uses to it's advantage) the status quo in all other areas and varieties of oppressions in this world. i will not support an organization that decries oppression in one form but enforces it and re-inforces it elsewhere, as suits their cause.
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#37 Old 06-23-2005, 05:26 AM
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In the past year Ive known at least five people who were 100% meat eaters, not interested in animal welfare in the least who have become vegetarians because of PETA. Ive been a veg for a long time and Ive never seen a more influential AR organization. One person I new was from a hunting family and grew up on farm and today she called me to tell me she turned down her dream job working in a microbiology lab because it involved animals. Her transformation happened within 2 months! Truly amazing. Shes a vegan now because of PETA videos. People will always complain about something thats just a given but Im yet to hear a complaint that really bothers me personally. You want to talk about propaganda? Look at the American beverage association. They pour billions of dollars into their campaigns every year and I know very few people that dont buy beverages once in a while from a convenient store or super market. Their marketing is so well crafted that people cant even see it. I dont know why it should matter if PETA is appealing to peoples vulnerabilities when so many lives are at stake.
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#38 Old 06-23-2005, 06:03 AM
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i feel that PeTA has a responsibility to educate people about ending oppression of animals, but i don't believe they have any credibility in that regard because they try to teach it via sexist, fatphobic, and other questionable methods.

Indeed. For anyone who wants to know, PETA's anti-fat programs have included "Veg Eye for the Fat Guy," "Chicken Chumps" and "Milk Suckers" (both of which feature fat kids), and this page. All of them suggest that vegans are by definition slim and healthy, and that omnis are by definition fat and sick. (Ovo-lactos are rarely mentioned.)



"Lettuce Ladies" and "Broccoli Boys" seemed kind of...well, vulgar to me. Too many modern-aesthetic bodies displayed like new cars. And to top if off, there are a few more anti-fat statements on the "Ladies" page.



And this is a bit off-topic (although it does relate to that awful bumper sticker on the "Boys" page)...but did I mention that IMHO, using bunnies in an animal rights argument is inherently an argumentum ad misericordam?



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#39 Old 06-23-2005, 11:13 AM
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I really don't like PETA's marketing. "Oh look, here's a naked woman - Go vegetarian" is pretty much their style, and I think that style is rubbish. Either that, or it'll be some kind of shock tactic, which will just make non-vegetarians resent them even more, and what surprises me is that PETA continue to do this, even though the criticisms keep flying in from all directions. They just don't take any notice of how unsuccessful their campaigning is, and that is what irritates me about them the most.



I don't see why anyone would ever think that someone was being "wishy-washy" over the issue. There are a lot of grey areas, and it is bloody stupid to see thinks in terms of black and white. There are many shades of grey, not to mention a whole rainbow of colours, on almost any issue.



And i'm happy to sit in the middle on this issue. I have never met anyone who is offended that some people sit in the middle on certain issues. in fact, the vast majority of people i know look up to people who sit in the middle, as it allows them to see both sides.



You even sound like my friend Ryan. This is getting scary.



About PETA, I also pretty much agree with the cause, but completely disagree with the tactics.
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#40 Old 06-23-2005, 12:55 PM
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I recognize that western culture has body image issues that are directly related to the media but Peta did not create this media. It existed long before. And I think in reality a lot of people do not act altruistically. They dont care about the suffering of animals. So many people shop at Wal-Mart and malls when they know full well that most products are made by children in foreign countries that do not have labor laws. They could care less. If people dont care about children then I wouldnt expect them to care about animals. What they do care about is themselves; how they look and how much they weigh ect. If a population is incapable of common sense then I can understand Petas tactics. They are pandering to a population in the easiest way.
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#41 Old 06-23-2005, 01:25 PM
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i myself am a person who believes in supporting the ethical treatment of animals. but i dont agree whith some of the strategies that peta has. i wont read their magazine because i feel like im reading a veggie trend magazine. and the clips and videos they make can be so nasty. some days i think they are better than other days.
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#42 Old 06-23-2005, 01:49 PM
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heres the thing for me. i dont HATE peta but i dont support them completly either. i think they are way overboard on alot of things, i do support any group of people trying to help animals, just for their heart alone but its what they do beyond that and how they do it that gets me. i like how they get celebs on the sexiest list because i enjoy seeing who is also a veggie in hollywood. i am not really sure which way i am with them... however i know they are one charity who doesnt get my money. only two of them do....

anyway

thats my thoughts





I agree with you. Actually, I'm currently too tired to really think straight. I'm in the school library hoping that my professor comes back to his office soon so I can talk with him, finish my work and go out for whatever anniversary deal my husband has planned.



Anyway....

To me, PeTA is the hellfire and damnation preachers of animal rights. I don't like hellfire and damnation preaching. It does more harm than good. Yes, through their overhyped news stories, I've become more aware. However, overall, I don't like their approach. When I was an omni, I felt as though they were trying to shove their message down my throat. Sorry. That doesn't work with me.



I wonder, though, how much of the Hollywood people stuff is hype. It seems as though I saw somewhere on the Internet (the PeTA site, maybe) that Pam Anderson is doing something with them. Great. However, I would believe Pam's "natural" message more if she would remove her implants again. (The five pounds of makeup and obvious blonde job doesn't help her either.) Recently, I read on a "Guiding Light" board that Grand Aleksander, former actor from the show was doing something with them. Interesting, considering "GL" is owned by P&G. I wonder, though, if that's why he left--Conflict of interests. (I can't work for a company that does animal testing if I want to do something for PeTA, too.)



Okay. I'm half asleep. Thankfully, I have until five P.M. tomorrow to turn in my assignment. (Since I'm doing a free audit, I technically don't have to do it at all.)



I hope I've made myself comprehensible.



Laura
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#43 Old 06-23-2005, 02:12 PM
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if we're going to defend PeTA's honour by listing off how many people we know who went veggie because of their videos and in-your-face billboards, i think it's fair to list off the number of people who are completely and totally turned off by their tactics and who, as a result, vow to never become vegetarian and go around thinking all vegetarians are extremist evangelicals. which, i can assure you, is a much higher number than the number of people who are converted (for more than a few weeks, anyway).



on the other hand, i am close, personal friends with many people who have, if not completely switched to a vegan diet, reduced their consumption of animal foods and support of animal products drastically thanks to their exposure to me, my cooking, and my family, who live a very NOT-in-your-face veg*n lifestyle. a very high percentage of people i know, in fact, have "converted". percentage wise, probably higher than the number of people than PeTA has converted. and all of this due to a "lead by example and don't preach" lifestyle i strive to maintain.



also, i want to point out the VERY TRUE fact that going vegetarian or even vegan is no guarantee that a person will magically become slender. i have been vegan for eight years and have remained the same fat mama i was all along (and no, i'm not a "junk food" vegan - i have children to think about here!). my husband has been vegan for the same amount of time and he has remained the same slender bean pole he's always been. for PeTA and other veg*n advocacy groups to focus on the promise of weight loss and "body perfect" is a very big mistake. a person who goes vegan to lose weight, and then doesn't, is far more likely to go back to eating meat and dairy and eggs - just as the person who tries to live off of two slimfast shakes a day and doesn't lose weight fast enough will quit that diet, too. if you want people to go vegan and stay vegan, your message has to be true, righteous, and something that they can live with for a lifetime. it can't be based on the same premise of every other fad diet out there, because 98% of the people who go on them, don't stick with it. personally, i'll be happier to see ONE person go veg*n for LIFE than a dozen people try veg*nism for six weeks until they figure out they aren't going to have a media-perfect body.



finally, by feeding into the culture's obsession with diets, thin bodies, and weight loss, PeTA is merely putting a BAND-AID on the huge, gaping, infected, pus-filled and bleeding wound that is our society. no real, lasting change will ever happen if the same tactics that keep animals down everywhere we go are turned around and used on human beings. you might help some animals here and there, sporadically, by getting slaughterhouses to own up to making changes in how they house, feed, and kill their animals, yes. but it does nothing in the long run in changing how many animals are bred, held captive, and then slaughtered for food, no matter how humanely.
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#44 Old 06-23-2005, 02:45 PM
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I really dont think its petas job to look out for the emotional well being of humans. Thats certainly evident, we all know of there agenda. If a persons morals and ability to be compassionate can be dictated by any organization then they have deeper issues to deal with. I just dont think its true that a persons decision to become a vegetarian, which is usually wrought by one of either two decisions (for ones own personal health or a feeling of compassion towards animals) can be affected by Peta negatively. I give people more credit than that. If someone is compassionate then that they are, it has nothing to do with any other human being on this planet. Why is it that our culture is so interested in relinquishing personal responsibilities for our decisions? Its quite sad. I dont want to think of people as mindless drones.
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#45 Old 06-23-2005, 02:52 PM
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I really dont think its petas job to look out for the emotional well being of humans. Thats certainly evident, we all know of there agenda. If a persons morals and ability to be compassionate can be dictated by any organization then they have deeper issues to deal with. I just dont think its true that a persons decision to become a vegetarian, which is usually wrought by one of either two decisions (for ones own personal health or a feeling of compassion towards animals) can be affected by Peta negatively. I give people more credit than that. If someone is compassionate then that they are, it has nothing to do with any other human being on this planet. Why is it that our culture is so interested in relinquishing personal responsibilities for our decisions? Its quite sad. I dont want to think of people as mindless drones.





which is exactly how i feel about people mindlessly following PeTA, or any other veg*n group's harmful rhetoric.



perhaps you've never been a fat person? it is difficult for anyone who hasn't been fat and then had their consciousness raised about fatphobia, and suffered as a result of the institutionalized oppression of fat people, to see or understand what it is like to constantly face the prejudice and hatred. that is a privilege you have in this world that i don't, so it is easy for you to say what you have in defense of PeTA's fatphobic ad campaigns.
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#46 Old 06-23-2005, 03:05 PM
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PETA personally caused me to turn away from vegetarianism and AR for many years. I didn't want to become a crazy like them. It wasn't until I came across literature from a very fact based pamphlet that I started to look into it. I was still reluctant to embrace AR or vegetarianism because I didn't want to be seen as one of those crazy PETA people. I actually gave them money once after I supported AR more, but once I found other organizations like Farm Sanctuary, Vegan Outreach, and COK, I started giving money to them instead.



To this day I avoid any mention of AR support around people in general because I know they will assume I support PETA and want to talk about that instead of Regan or Singer or Vegan Outreach's mission. Go to all the anti-AR websites out there and PETA is their main target. Any AR or veg*n discussion on most any non pro-AR forum turns into a discussion of PETA instead of actual AR issues and philosophy. It's a huge distraction that mainly is successful at gaining short-term members (I would guess). They then fund ads that allow PETA to stroke its ego and feed its insatiable appetite for attention and get yet more short term members to replace the ones who wised up and stopped giving.



I dare PETA to show us stats on its membership turnover compared to other groups.
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#47 Old 06-23-2005, 03:10 PM
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I hope there are not many people who make a conscious decision to abandon their plans of becoming veg*n on the basis of PETA's actions, because that would basically amount to revenging PETA's actions on (non-human) animals, which strikes me as pretty odd. Then again, I have trouble comprehending the "the militant vegans were rude to me on the 'net, so I'm going to eat cheese" thinking, too.



These kind of attitudes reveal a lot about how we view other animals.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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#48 Old 06-23-2005, 03:14 PM
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PETA give vegetarians a bad name. But they're not bad- I support anything that promotes vegetarianism and saves animals lives.



I hate the way when people hear the word 'peta' they immediately assume you're talking crap. Um, no.
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#49 Old 06-23-2005, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Kreeli View Post

which is exactly how i feel about people mindlessly following PeTA, or any other veg*n group's harmful rhetoric.



perhaps you've never been a fat person? it is difficult for anyone who hasn't been fat and then had their consciousness raised about fatphobia, and suffered as a result of the institutionalized oppression of fat people, to see or understand what it is like to constantly face the prejudice and hatred. that is a privilege you have in this world that i don't, so it is easy for you to say what you have in defense of PeTA's fatphobic ad campaigns.

Wow youre assuming a bit. Granted I am not obese but I am overweight and I am not comfortable with it. When I turned thirty I gained 25 lbseek! I was relatively thin once and now I am not. Honestly though I blame myself. Im in no way saying that you are in the same situation as me because we all have different reasons for being overweight. But I used to run five miles a day five days a week. I stopped doing that and gained weight. I spend too much time sitting on my fanny in front of the computer lol.

Either way, I understand that fat people have to deal with bigotry. Its a cruel world but I still dont think its unreasonable for peta to take the weight loss approach. On that we disagree.
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#50 Old 06-23-2005, 03:24 PM
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I hope there are not many people who make a conscious decision to abandon their plans of becoming veg*n on the basis of PETA's actions, because that would basically amount to revenging PETA's actions on (non-human) animals, which strikes me as pretty odd. Then again, I have trouble comprehending the "the militant vegans were rude to me on the 'net, so I'm going to eat cheese" thinking, too.



These kind of attitudes reveal a lot about how we view other animals.

agreed, it doesn't make any sense.
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#51 Old 06-23-2005, 03:24 PM
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i assumed nothing.



it is a cruel world, and PeTA does nothing to change that part of it by contributing to fatphobia. you're right, we will never agree on that.



i am sorry you are so unhappy with yourself now, though. good luck.
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#52 Old 06-23-2005, 03:45 PM
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i assumed nothing.



it is a cruel world, and PeTA does nothing to change that part of it by contributing to fatphobia. you're right, we will never agree on that.



i am sorry you are so unhappy with yourself now, though. good luck.

I thought you were assuming that i was skinny that's all. I'm sorry that fatphobia is such an issue for you as well.

thanks for wishing me luck i wish you luck as well
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#53 Old 06-23-2005, 04:06 PM
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I personally agree, it scares me when people have seen the weight loss I have had and wonder if they should "go vegan", too, to lose weight. Egads!
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#54 Old 06-23-2005, 04:26 PM
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I think PETA has a spot-on message that they attempt to send, and I do agree with most of their methods, however they can sometimes degrade people or say things much too bluntly and offensively (ex. "You eat meat, therefore you are stupid"). Meat eaters don't know how to respond to comments like that because most of them don't see what's wrong with eating meat in the first place. I mean, if you're going to try to advertise vegetarianism or veganism in order to hopefully convert people (which is their original intent, and I agree with it), you have to avoid insulting the same people you're trying to convert in the first place. I think, however, that they might seem insulting at times, but they were probably just trying the "shock factor" method of advertising. They just sometimes go over board.



About PETA using sexual content to influence people - well, it doesn't seem to be demeaning the ones involved (I mean, they did after all decide to do this. They weren't being forced, and they would probably rather show off their bodies if it means more people interested in veganism. I would actually call these people brave and martyresque for doing what they're doing). Also sex sells. It's a fact of life, and unfortunate, but in this case they're sacrificing some of their morality in order to promote veganism in society and I find that admirable.



Anyways, that's all I have to say for now. And for the record, that's just my own observations and opinions.
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#55 Old 06-23-2005, 04:55 PM
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why is everyone so pro-peta? i don't really get it... using sex to sell veg*nism isn't exactly what people should have in mind when strivingto reach equality for all animals



i'm sure there's probably already been posts like this, but all the pro-peta comments really concern me, and i urge people to be at least mildly critical and not accept everything they say as the answer and think for themselves, especially when regarding women's rights



http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/PETA/peta.html





Why expect peta to be different than anyone else who uses sex to sell things? It's not as if it's an uncommon tactic.



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#56 Old 06-23-2005, 05:08 PM
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Precisely. And in this case, unlike clothing or make-up corporations who tend to use sexually provocative advertisements to profit money, PETA actually gains greater benefits - more people becoming interested in vegetarianism/veganism which, if successful, will benefit the environment and actually more respect and gratitude for the fact that they were willing to sink this "low" to promote vegetarianism/veganism. That's dedication, my friends.
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#57 Old 06-23-2005, 05:32 PM
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I hope there are not many people who make a conscious decision to abandon their plans of becoming veg*n on the basis of PETA's actions, because that would basically amount to revenging PETA's actions on (non-human) animals, which strikes me as pretty odd. Then again, I have trouble comprehending the "the militant vegans were rude to me on the 'net, so I'm going to eat cheese" thinking, too.



I don't think it quite works that way. We are demanding that people make some extrmely radical changes, not just adopt a new diet, but to reevaluate many of the key values regarding the relationships between human beings and the universe. Why should I trust you (rhetorical you) to be a moral exemplar if you engage in actions that seem less than completely ethical towards me (rhetorical)?



Quote:
Originally Posted by bethanie View Post

Why expect peta to be different than anyone else who uses sex to sell things? It's not as if it's an uncommon tactic.



"The Master's Tools Will Never Dismantle the Master's House" -Audre Lourde



To the extent that they choose not to be different from Coca-Cola, or Tommy Hilfinger, they are not really able to address the core issues at stake.
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#58 Old 06-23-2005, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Vicarinatutu View Post

Precisely. And in this case, unlike clothing or make-up corporations who tend to use sexually provocative advertisements to profit money, PETA actually gains greater benefits - more people becoming interested in vegetarianism/veganism which, if successful, will benefit the environment and actually more respect and gratitude for the fact that they were willing to sink this "low" to promote vegetarianism/veganism. That's dedication, my friends.



A turd laid for the best of reasons, still stinks. Having and acting on a consistent moral backbone in my mind reveals better dedication.
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#59 Old 06-23-2005, 05:44 PM
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I've found that most PETA supporters don't agree 100% with all of the group's actions. They apparently, however, do agree with enough of the group's philosophy to warrant their support. I'm sure it's probably the same with many members of the ACLU or the NRA or any other large, controversial group.

There are legitamate reasons to respect PETA's historical contributions to the animal rights struggle. From the get-go, it was apparent they weren't going to be an old-guard animal welfare group, which spent a lot of time handing out pretty calendars but not as much time investigating corporate and institutional animal abuse. Outspoken, left-field groups like PETA have forced essential issues into the spotlight. Without them, it's not hard to imagine that we'd still have a world in which "animal rights" groups hosted barbeque fundraisers (as the Fund for Animals did in the 1970s) or fired a spokesperson for supporting vegetarianism (as the ASPCA did in the early 1990s). Today, even the most glossy, mainstream groups have admitted there are some problems in the agriculture and research worlds. And I still have a hard time imagining the Animal Welfare Institute or American Humane sending undercover workers with cameras to chicken slaughterhouses or contract testing labs.

At the same time, animal advocates who decline to support PETA have a plausible reason, too. There's no doubt their at times ill-advised stunts and offensive ads have done permanent damage to the image of animal advocates and veg*ns. Most of us who have debated ethics with omnis know that discussions about animals or veg*nism often turn into debates about what PETA has done (or in the countless urban legends associated with the group, is said to have done). I've found that the best response is to remind the person that you don't speak for or control their activities, and you're just an individual trying to live the way you feel is kindest in your community.

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#60 Old 06-23-2005, 05:45 PM
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Yes, you're right that using sexually-provocative tactics in a usually moral and good-intentioned organization such as PETA can definitely be considered disgusting. However, sex is alluring. It's alluring to many people. The more people who can see these sexually-suggestive advertisements, the more people who will be interested in learning more about vegetarianism/veganism. It's a business tactic that's been used for generations, but in this circumstance, it's being used for only good intentions. And again, I admire that.
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