Question for vegans... re honey - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 05-30-2003, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sunshinemelissa

Epski,

I never said you two were having an unhealthy debate, I just found it interesting hearing both poin of views. Sorry if I came across wrong.



Enh. No need to apologize. Most matters are fairly easy to clear up so long as everyone is respectful and listens openly to others. Glad you found the discussion interesting. Honey is an ongoing vegan headache, obviously.
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#32 Old 05-30-2003, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by epski

Enh. No need to apologize. Most matters are fairly easy to clear up so long as everyone is respectful and listens openly to others. Glad you found the discussion interesting. Honey is an ongoing vegan headache, obviously.



cool!
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#33 Old 05-30-2003, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hedgefrog

you can still be vegan and eat honey. it's all to do with how far you want to push yourself and what you consider right or not..there is no perfect proper vegan in my opinion



Thank you for your disservice veganism.
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#34 Old 05-30-2003, 12:45 PM
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I avoid honey as much as i can catch it. that doesnt sound right.. i look before i eat something and if honey is in it, i wont eat it. my mom made some kew sesame candy stuff and two weeks ago i told her i dont eat honey, but when i asked if these were good for me to eat she said yes. then after a week of eating it i asked what was in it, and she said honey, sesame seeds and some other stuff. i was kinda pissed off and i dont eat it anymore. nore do i really trust what she makes me.
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#35 Old 05-30-2003, 01:55 PM
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I don't eat honey (or bee barf as I like to call it) but I'm sure some vegans do. I think it's personal choice. Honey is made by bees for bees.
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#36 Old 05-30-2003, 02:07 PM
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i avoid honey because i don't wanna take food the bees made for themselves? anyways it's not a big deal to me cos i never even liked honey in the past.



however, i am just wondering, how about bee pollen? royal jelly? beeswax? what are your takes on these?



i don't buy stuff with any of the above (to the best of my knowledge), not because i am well informed and know wht is involved in deriving them but it's because i don't know and want to find out first before i make my choices on them.



i just found out my fav drink at my local HFS has royal jelly in it and i have not bought it since, though i really really miss it does anyone know how royal jelly comes about?



having said tht, i have problem skin and nothing works on me (so far). wht i use now is vegan and it's ok but it's not great. (because now i have a new problem in tht my skin is a little dehydrated and i drink TONS of water, so it's not lack of water! probably stress induced?)

i am considering trying clarins cos my mum swears by it and my bf got me a gift voucher for a facial at clarins which i used recently. the facial was DIVINE and it made my skin feel really good for a few days. i know clarins is not vegan and i have emailed them to ask which of their products are, but have not had a reply.
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#37 Old 05-30-2003, 02:16 PM
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Trader Joe's Organic Wheat Bread does not have honey.
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#38 Old 05-30-2003, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oatmeal

edit: just saw the posts...



Peebs was stating his opinion, he wrote "
I think if vegans want to avoid honey that is totally cool, but it shouldn't be a major part of the argument for veganism.". I agreed with his opinion and offered an explanation (my explanation) for it.



Peace.



Yeah, anything I post is my opinion unless I can prove it true. All I meant was that honey production is nothing to get hysterical about with the abuse that goes on to make meat, milk and eggs.



Also, I should mention that I do not consider myself a vegan. I usually say I am a "near-vegan", that I eat a "predominantly vegan diet" or that I am a "strict vegetarian". I dislike the last one because it implies that I eat eggs and dairy. I do not eat these, however, I won't really be vegan until I am rid of my leather things and stop eating the drops of honey I consume. Maybe I am being strict but oh well. I'm not (almost!) vegan to impress people.
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#39 Old 05-30-2003, 07:32 PM
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I don't think owning leather items makes you "un-vegan." Purchasing them does. Does that get you a little closer, Peebs?
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#40 Old 05-30-2003, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by epski

I don't think owning leather items makes you "un-vegan." Purchasing them does. Does that get you a little closer, Peebs?



There is also the issue of "advertising" leather useage. Spud discovered this with a fur coat she had since before she went veg. A woman came up to her one day when she was wearing it as a veg, and the woman excitedly said she was going to go buy one just like it.

Q: How many poets does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1001...one to change the bulb, 1000 to say it's already been done.
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#41 Old 05-30-2003, 11:51 PM
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My family always introduces me as "The Vegan" to everyone and anyone, to which I always have to reply that I'm not vegan because my mother refuses to buy whole wheat bread without honey and I don't care enough about some honey to go and buy it myself. I figure as long as we leave enough for the bees who's getting hurt? (rhetorical question please)



But at least I don't claim veganhood when I don't deserve it. I don't think a vegan can eat honey and truely be vegan. But I don't think that it's possible to be vegan at all because computers cars and many other things necessary to modern living have animal derived products in them or are used in the making so as to prevent most everyone from being truely vegan.



Basically the best any of us can hope for is strict vegetarianism. Let's be honest here.



rigmarole
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#42 Old 05-31-2003, 01:08 AM
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Yeah. I don't wear my leather pants anymore, but I haven't gotten around to giving them away yet. Still consider myself vegan, though.
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#43 Old 05-31-2003, 01:17 AM
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Vegans with leather cloathing from pre-vegan days is nothing..... I had the skin/hair of a Cow in my cupboard long after I became vegan (from my mediaeval group days; we'd use it to make armour).
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#44 Old 05-31-2003, 05:09 PM
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I have a leather pair of sandals from before I went vegan...The thing is recently, trying to find jeans with no leather tags on them.... pisses me off that they put them on there anyways,,, its a stupid tag for crying out loud... ummm but oh concerning honey... I dont eat it, mostly because I dont like it.... Sure is hard around here to find bread without honey in it. I should look into making my own I guess.
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#45 Old 06-01-2003, 06:47 AM
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Hmm. L.E.I, and GLO jeans don't have leather tags. Weird, most of the jeans I used to work around (hooray! I worked retail) had cloth tags.



Erm, I don't think Gloria Vanderbilt uses leather on the jeans, I think Levis does. But many major brands tend to not use leather. Makes me happy!
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#46 Old 06-01-2003, 08:02 AM
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for me vegan is definately NO HONEY (yuk!). It's like 'vegetarians' who do eat fish or even chicken!



I've never heard of whole meal bread containing honey here in the UK.



best regars to all

tony
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#47 Old 06-01-2003, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TonyF

I've never heard of whole meal bread containing honey here in the UK.



I think it might be a North American/USA thing, because here in Australia I rarely see any breads with honey (or milk) in them. I have seen the occassional type sometimes, somewhere (with bread or honey.... and even one with Fish oil in it).
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#48 Old 06-01-2003, 08:36 AM
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i'm a vegan who for the most part avoided honey (didn't buy it but ate it occasionally if it was a secondary ingredient in something that i couldn't get otherwise) until the other day when i caught my mother feeding my baby honey graham crackers. no more honey here.



i'm also a freak with the whole leather issue in that i WON'T sit on leather furniture. this was pushed to it's limit when my midwives bought all leather furniture and i (very pregnant) had to stand and wait and wait and stand in the reception area. they finally found me a wood chair after several visits .
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#49 Old 06-01-2003, 08:50 AM
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about this whole bee issue that was brought up earlier. how don't bees feel pain they have a nervouse system don't they.
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#50 Old 06-01-2003, 12:21 PM
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*smack head* Oh no! I never thought about looking at the tag on jeans! Arrrrgh! You try and try, and then their is always something else.



On honey, I go to a really cool place to eat that is all vegetarian. They have lots and lots of vegan selections. I find out from a nice(non vegan) employee that all their drinks"(veg and fruit juices) and all their desserts have honey in them. I almost cried. It is so weird, they are all labeled vegan. I wonder how many other vegans have eaten this stuff with good conscience not knowing of the honey issue. I had not really taken a strong stand with honey, only not buying things that obviously had honey in them, but I could not buy any of these things from this restaurant. They are really nice people, I just think they don't realize vegans don't really want to eat honey. They only use honey as a sweetner, sometimes molasses, but I feel as if it shouldn't be too hard to change their recipe. Sometimes I wish he would not have told me, but I know I am better off in the long run...
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#51 Old 06-02-2003, 02:13 PM
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I guess i don't agree with Equal Rights for Bees. They'll make honey in a tree somewhere anyway, we as humans just riegn them in and use the honey. I think it's sorta good cause then it doesnt' go to waste.



I've heard arguments for cows the same way, but with cow's milk, if we didn't use (and abuse) it, it would just be for the baby cows and that's it. The cow would just be the way it's supposed to be. Bees make honey no matter what...so i don't have a problem with it.
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#52 Old 06-02-2003, 07:19 PM
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Bees use honey, for example to keep warm during the Winter. They've been known to run out of it.



Quote:

The cow would just be the way it's supposed to be.



As would the Bees if we left them alone.
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#53 Old 06-03-2003, 12:44 AM
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jwnyc, I think you miss the point that vegans raise for avoiding honey. The honey industry is a business where bees are treated like machinery and the only concern is profit. They're not making honey in a tree somewhere, they're making in a factory. They're not getting their pollen from a flower, they're getting sugar-water from a machine. For a detailed look at the honey industry and reasons why many don't believe honey is vegan, check out http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm
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#54 Old 06-04-2003, 02:05 PM
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Well, I just want to drop my own little pile of opinion here.



I still do consume honey, but am on my way out of it. I agree that honey isn't the major issue. I think this world could be a pretty peaceful (vegan) place even with controlled honey production (for profit).



For me, personally, I just find more reasons NOT to consume honey than reasons to do so. And my logical conclusion is to try not to eat any more honey and avoid products that contain any.



I don't know if bees are aware of being exploited, or I don't even know if you can really call it exploitation. But after reading some about it, I would call it just that.

I don't run around saying honey is the work of the devil, but I do believe that if I want to live a violence-free live and one where I don't want to use another "being" for my own purposes, I shouldn't make the exception for honey bees. They are just not "meant" to be used as a machine to produce some sugar product for us, that neither contains any essential nutrients, nor can't be substituted by something else.



Except for the fact that many food manufacturers put honey in products that really don't need honey in them, I think we are easily able to just use something else instead (molasses, maple syrup, etc.).



We don't need refined sugar, we just like it. I don't want to use honey if all I can gain from doing so is some taste that I can get from other sources.
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