Cats & Veggies/vegans - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 05-06-2003, 06:40 PM
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I've noticed a heap of cat avatars on this board and I was wondering if any of you are veggie/vegan for environmental reasons how you reconcile having a cat as a pet especially when they enjoy munching on endangered and native species (particularly in Aust. & NZ)? I understand that cats would normally kill birds etc however keeping them as pets has introduced them to places that are naturally cat free. I know feral and pet dogs also cause damage but cats are generally free to roam where they please and if you leave them out you have no idea what they do or what they eat. When I was kid my parents had our cat (a stray) desexed because of the amount of animals he was killing (even as a kitten) but sadly it didn't help. And yes I hate cats *achew**sniffle*.
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#2 Old 05-06-2003, 08:01 PM
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just search for my thread on why i hate cats and you will know if i like'm or not.
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#3 Old 05-06-2003, 08:22 PM
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First off, I wasn't the one who domesticated these animals. If I would have been around when this was happening, maybe I could have done something to prevent it. Now that cats (and dogs, alike) are domesticated we have no choice but to take on the responsibility to these animals that our ancestors gave us.

I have one cat living in my house. He was adopted from my local humane society. He was having lots of different health problems (as a result to being abused and malnourished in his previous home), at the time, and they were discussing putting him down for these reasons. If I would not have adopted him, he would have surely died. My love for the environment is just as strong as my love for animals.. and because of this I couldn't have just stood back and watched him die.

Also, my cat is rarely outside, he is neutered, and he is declawed in the front (his previous owners did this, as well). When he is outside, he stays in the yard. The only animal that he has ever brought to my doorstep was a small toad (it was covered in worms, so I'm assuming it was already dead when he found it). He's a very gentle cat and is scared of his own shadow.



Anyway, what I'm getting at is there isn't really anything that we can do, now that these animals are domesticated. We have to take care of them- leaving them all to die would be extremely horrible and inhumane. Loving the environment and loving animals can occasionally be like a tug-of-war.. but in the end, neither win over the other.
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#4 Old 05-06-2003, 08:32 PM
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I would venture to guess that the majority of those on this board who have companion cats do not let them roam freely.
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#5 Old 05-06-2003, 09:22 PM
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yes, cats are adept hunters and have been known to devastate the bird population in some areas...but, not all cats are free to roam at will. My cats are indoor only and are happy as can be. Also, the majority of pet owners do not let their dog roam free either. I feel bad for people who say they hate cats, I thought veg*n's were generally animal friendly.
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#6 Old 05-06-2003, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
I feel bad for people who say they hate cats, I thought veg*n's were generally animal friendly.



I am animal friendly but cats make me itchy and sneezy. I don't hate them enough to be a cat exterminator (i'm not a sicko that runs them over or anything) but I will never own one - maybe I should have said dislike, because I really dislike them. And as for the "I didn't domesticate them" comment by buying cats you encourage the breeders to breed even more for sale (some under dubious conditions). Shelter animals are a different thing entirely, even though I'd rather save a dog, snake or even a big, hairy boar than a cat. But that's just me.
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#7 Old 05-07-2003, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sindy

I feel bad for people who say they hate cats, I thought veg*n's were generally animal friendly.



I hate cats, too. It's a personal preference. Veg*n or not, animal-friendly or not, most of us can think of at least one animal that we fear, dislike, or positively can't stand.
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#8 Old 05-07-2003, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by thefragile77

I'd rather save a dog, snake or even a big, hairy boar than a cat. But that's just me.



So you would have just allowed them to put the cat down, regardless of the fact that he only needed a little bit of money to live long, healthy, happy life?
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#9 Old 05-07-2003, 08:07 AM
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Just watch out for snuggles.
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#10 Old 05-07-2003, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by thefragile77

I've noticed a heap of cat avatars on this board and I was wondering if any of you are veggie/vegan for environmental reasons how you reconcile having a cat as a pet especially when they enjoy munching on endangered and native species (particularly in Aust. & NZ)? I understand that cats would normally kill birds etc however keeping them as pets has introduced them to places that are naturally cat free. I know feral and pet dogs also cause damage but cats are generally free to roam where they please and if you leave them out you have no idea what they do or what they eat. When I was kid my parents had our cat (a stray) desexed because of the amount of animals he was killing (even as a kitten) but sadly it didn't help. And yes I hate cats *achew**sniffle*.



None of this makes any sense at all.



I have a cat. She hasn't munched on any endangered species.

What is desexing? Why didn't your parents just keep that cat inside? I'm confused. What do you want cats to do? Do you want us to poison them all so that they stop eating other species? Your post doesn't make any sense to me at all.
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#11 Old 05-07-2003, 08:31 AM
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and this thread needs to be moved to the compost heap
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#12 Old 05-07-2003, 09:10 AM
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Well, I'm an animal lover, but there are definately animal species that I am not too fond off. Or rather, that I definately wouldn't want to snuggle up to. But I certainly don't hate them.



I do have a cat, I adopted him from my school's shelter. He was a stray and still has very very strong hunting instincts. That's part of the reason I don't let him outside. That coupled with cars, stupid punk kids, other animals, diseases, parasites, etc.



It's not a cat's fault if he hunts. That's what predatory species do. You shouldn't hate an animal because of what they have to do to survive.



stellar26, great post
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#13 Old 05-07-2003, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by thefragile77

I've noticed a heap of cat avatars on this board and I was wondering if any of you are veggie/vegan for environmental reasons how you reconcile having a cat as a pet especially when they enjoy munching on endangered and native species (particularly in Aust. & NZ)? I understand that cats would normally kill birds etc however keeping them as pets has introduced them to places that are naturally cat free. I know feral and pet dogs also cause damage but cats are generally free to roam where they please and if you leave them out you have no idea what they do or what they eat. When I was kid my parents had our cat (a stray) desexed because of the amount of animals he was killing (even as a kitten) but sadly it didn't help. And yes I hate cats *achew**sniffle*.



I've met very few people who let their cats run amok, because it's too dangerous for the cat. But that's beside the point.



What are we going to do? Kill all carnivores (including quite a large number of feral dogs and their relatives, the wolves and coyotes)? Talk about destroying the balance. This is the nature of things, the circle of life. There is a food chain. If species are endangered, it's more likely we are the cause, and not cats. In fact, even if you blame cats, we are the cause, because breeders and irresponsible animal guardians allow cat populations to grow out of balance.



As usual, humans are the real problem here.
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#14 Old 05-07-2003, 10:44 AM
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I adopted my cat from the local humane society. She had been there for over a year and a half when I adopted her and the shelter volunteers said that I was one of the first people to show serious interest in her. It is a no kill shelter so had I not adopted her she probably would have spent the rest of her life there mostly in her cage. She is between five and six years old and has a serious weight problem which has led to other health problems including feline asthma. I don't let her roam - the only time she goes outside is when she is on her leash and I am with her. She does have a hunting instinct, but the only thing she hunts is her toys and occasionally a cricket or two. She eats commerically prepared cat food which contains meat, but that is what she eats. Cats are designed to eat meat. I am glad that I was able to give my cat a better life, a nice home and a loving owner. She is thriving now and although she still has weight to lose, she is doing a lot better.
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#15 Old 05-07-2003, 11:35 AM
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I have never met anyone who actually bought a cat from a breeder. Everyone I know who has a cat got it from the pound or humane society or SPCA.



Rescued them from destruction, in other words.



Let me introduce you to Simon, who is here at your left. He's the sweetest kitty in the world, but for some reason, someone didn't want him. So he was sitting in a cage at the SPCA. And I was lucky enough to be able to save him from such despair. I'd rescue them all if I could, but just don't have that much money to spend on litter. LOL.



Dogs, on the other hand - seems more people buy dogs from breeders than cats. Yet you don't complain about dogs.



Why the problem with cats? Why not dogs too? Or birds? Or reptiles?



Or do you just have a problem with ALL pets in general? Why single out cat owners?



amy

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#16 Old 05-07-2003, 12:20 PM
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hell i was close to throwing the cat out the window at my old apartment. as much flaming as that will get its true. i hated that thing with a passion.
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#17 Old 05-07-2003, 12:26 PM
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This is clearly a topic for debate and needs to be moved. Debating pets is always fun as it's a sticky spot in veg*n philosophy.



(although I don't think Mike's too fond of the topic--I think he might just be tired of it coming up again and again)
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#18 Old 05-07-2003, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by V3gan

hell i was close to throwing the cat out the window at my old apartment. as much flaming as that will get its true. i hated that thing with a passion.

That's just... sick.
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#19 Old 05-07-2003, 01:31 PM
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Ok, my cat has never been to Aust or NZ, so if there's anything that was munched, endangered or otherwise, my cat's not to blame.



My cat, Imogene, was not from the humane shelter or a breeder (most of the breeders that I know only do dogs, not cats anyway), she was from a lady at my work whose daughter was moving and the new place wouldn't allow pets. The lady told me that either they find someone to take her (the cat) or she would have to go to the pound. Our cat Stanley, had just died and we were still fresh in mourning for him when we went out to see Imogene. Even though there were dogs running around, kids screaming and all kinds of chaos, we managed a brief look at Imogene while she was running for shelter under the couch and we were in love immediately. The lady told us that she was desexed (a/k/a "fixed") and declawed and didn't like dogs or men but loved women. It took her about a month or two to figure out that the new home was nothing like the old home and after she realized that, she was a whole new cat.



Because my cat's declawed, we don't allow her outside at all unless she's on her harness and one of us is holding the leash. She does, however, love to have windows open and if the weather's nice, glass open so she can smell things outside. We also feed her a carnivoire diet as well, but she also likes beans, rice, peas, corn, onions, and tomatoes. We don't give these to her all the time, but we will give her an occaisional bite every once in a great while (or sometimes, we don't give her anything, but have found her "helping herself" to the dinner dishes that we have just finished with). When Hub makes taco meat *ulp*, she starts the "lobbying" process before he can even get the meat out of the freezer to thaw and she's not keen on onions in her taco meat, but she does love garlic and won't eat her taco meat if it's not properly spiced. She's a smart cat, too. She does tricks for her morning treats and she tells you when her box is too full, her dish is not right, or her watermug needs filling. Sometimes, she just wants lap time and will tell you that, too. She also answers you back when you talk to her and often meows a "thank you" when you open a window or something. Like I said, smart cat.



I know there are some cat-haters here and that's ok. Just don't group cats or their owners into one collective pile of generalities. I don't buy cats and have never bought a cat, so I don't participate in the "[encouraging] the breeders to breed even more for sale". Like I said in the top of my post, most of the breeders I know of only breed dogs as cats are a "dime a dozen" and not worth much (in the breeder's mind). The only exceptioin to that would be a cat breed that is valuable or rare, but again, I do not buy cats and I certainly do not buy cats that cost more than my house. The breeders do not cause the population problem either, the people that let their cats roam is what causes the population problem and a host of other things. In fact, letting ANYTHING roam is purely irresponsible.



Cats can make a person itchy and sneezy. That's understandable. I'm also allergic to my cat, but I also take sub-lingual allergy meds that I get from HFS and it helps me out just fine. There are people that don't want to do that, though and that's fine, too. They can adopt a lizard, iguana, snake, hairy boar, whatever. Anyone can tell you that the humane centers are full of all kinds of pets that need love and affection, not just dogs and cats.



V3gan - You can't see my "fingers up" for your attitude about wanting to toss your cat out the window but I'm holding up 1 finger on the left hand (guess which one) and 2 up on the right, so that you know what I'm trying to say. If your cat upset you that badely, why didn't you give it to someone that would love it instead of making it live in an enviroment like yours being around hate like that?
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#20 Old 05-07-2003, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DeeYahMK

V3gan - You can't see my "fingers up" for your attitude about wanting to toss your cat out the window but I'm holding up 1 finger on the left hand (guess which one) and 2 up on the right, so that you know what I'm trying to say. If your cat upset you that badely, why didn't you give it to someone that would love it instead of making it live in an enviroment like yours being around hate like that?





***applauds***
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#21 Old 05-07-2003, 02:08 PM
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Hooray for everything Dee said!!!
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#22 Old 05-07-2003, 02:10 PM
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what endangered animals do cats eat exactly? mine only ate mice and bugs, i'm pretty sure they're not endangered.



but the cat i have now, is an indoor-only cat. he doesn't "roam free to eat animals" mainly for his own safety, and because we have wild rabbits and lots of squirrels here and i would be upset if by chance my cat did hurt one. so to prevent that he stays inside with me. plus we've moved him 3 times and i'd be afraid he wouldn't find his way back home, or that he'd be one of those guys that treks hundred of miles back to their previous home for no apparant reason. plus, my city also has coyotes around i'm told, and a neighbour's dogs got out one day and killed another neighbour's cat in my backyard, which i got to watch from my back door, lucky me. for my cat's safety and that of the furred critters around my yard, he does not go outside, period.



and he's perfectly happy with the arrangement so far, he enjoys sniffing out the window and watching the squirrels from the back of the couch. if he did manage to get outside i don't think he'd know what to do with a squirrel if he did catch it, as he's never had the chance to before



and yes they probably shouldn't have been domesticated but same goes for dogs, birds, goldfish, hamsters, or any other animal we see as pets, not to mention 'food' animals. we can't exactly reverse it now, domesticated animals left to fend for themselves usually die, especially in populated areas, what would you like us to do, set all our pets free into the streets and see what happens? they'd all starve to death or get hit by cars. yes great solution. wait let's just toss them all out the windows



my cat makes me sneeze and itch too but he's part of my dysfunctional little family here. do you toss your kids out into the street because they smell funny or drew on the walls? no, you discipline them, teach them correct behaviour, and you put up with the smelly diapers because you love them and it's not their fault they poo themselves every 10 minutes.

I'm singin' here to get rid of fear
Hope it disappears right here with the rain
But I know life is pain, not like a fairytale
Meaningless to pray, so just goin' on my way
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#23 Old 05-07-2003, 02:51 PM
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Just to clarify, there are lots and lots of cat breeders where I'm from. However most of them are what I call accidental breeders. Oops, didn't spay or neuter their cat, the cat got out, got pregnant, and now they have a litter of "free to good homes" to get rid of. There are cats for sale, mostly free, in the newspaper here all the time.



I don't let my cat go outside. Best he can do is sit in the window. But he is neutered in case he would ever accidentally get out somehow.
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#24 Old 05-07-2003, 03:05 PM
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DeeYahMK :



Before you talk about something make sure you know the situation. it wasnt my cat. it was my roomates. and the little ******* ripped a lot of my **** up and piddled on my sleeping bag many times. i wont raise a finger to you bcuase you were lacking in a lot of the details, but i sure feel like it

oh yea, and in this instance i guess you could say it was a figure of speech considering we were on the basement floor.
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#25 Old 05-07-2003, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kpickell

Just to clarify, there are lots and lots of cat breeders where I'm from. However most of them are what I call accidental breeders. Oops, didn't spay or neuter their cat, the cat got out, got pregnant, and now they have a litter of "free to good homes" to get rid of. There are cats for sale, mostly free, in the newspaper here all the time.

Oh yes! The accidental breeders. I didn't really mention them because I was more talking about the "professional breeders" (the ones that do this for money), not the ones that found that sweet "Fluffy" got out and met with "Romeo", and now has a boatload of little question marks that they now have to get rid of. That's how we got Stanley. He was a question mark kitty but we got him in front of a wal-mart, out of a box and yes, he was free to a good home. I see those ads in my local paper all the time as well, and my heart breaks like mad because what cats don't go to a good home, will end up in a shelter either living its life out in a cage or living its life out for "x" amount of time until termination. From someone raised as the daughter of a dog-breeder parent (there! I said it), I still go back to my feeling of it being purely irresponsible to let [domesticated] animals roam, desexed or not.



V3gan - I'm not trying to turn this into a war or anything, but if you would have posted the full situation and not just the "cat-toss" part, I would have prolly been a little more sympathetic. As it is, I would just have to say that maybe the cat was trying to tell you something...



Just my guess, anyway. But then again, I don't know your situation or why the animal kingdom feels necessary to say it with pee....
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#26 Old 05-07-2003, 03:25 PM
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V3gan, I think DeeYahMK's response was justified given what you said: "hell i was close to throwing the cat out the window at my old apartment. as much flaming as that will get its true. i hated that thing with a passion." I hope you never have kids, because I'd be afraid of what you'd do when they inevitable rip a lot of your stuff up and piddle on your sleeping bag. You're the cat's guardian and it's your responsibility to teach the cat. Anger won't teach a cat not to claw up your stuff, nor will it teach the cat to use a litterbox. But anyways, I'm glad you lived in the basement. =)
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#27 Old 05-07-2003, 03:36 PM
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see thats the thing i hate with message boards, you think you know me when in reality you know f/a about me. lets see, you know i hate cats. infact thats the only living being i cant tolerate. and how the hell do you get off comparing a child to a cat. and like I said IT WAS MY ROOMATES CAT, NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY.



no more i hate V3gan posts. you can send me hate Pm for that, dont waste this thread.
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#28 Old 05-07-2003, 04:09 PM
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I'm not doing a "I hate V3gan post" nor am I willing to turn this into a "I hate V3gan" thread. I have no time for that bulls hit! I don't hate anyone. Not even if they hate cats. As much as it would be almost (and I do mean "almost") justifyable to feel that way against someone that holds that opinion, I just can't. I won't either, so don't make it sound like I am or am trying.



What I can't understand is that you post about a thing and say "...as much flaming as that will get its true" and then get upset because there are comments about it. NOT FLAMES, mind you. Comments. That is all. I've been on boards that are into flames and I can assure you, this ain't it. No one has said anything against you as a person, there have just been COMMENTS made about how you feel and why you feel that way.



You hate message boards. Fine. But isn't that what message boards are about? Give an opinion and watch that opinion be countered or agreed with (along with reasons why)? We are supposed to be here to stretch each other and make each other think instead of beating everyone into one form of thought.
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#29 Old 05-07-2003, 04:17 PM
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We have a lot of cats on my property, both feral and house... the feral cats eat gophers and stuff (good for the garden) as well as food. Sad part is, a couple of the house cats have NO idea what to do with them... we flushed out a baby gpher once, one of them went over to catch it, and jumped back when he realized it was alive (imagine a boy cat going (EEEEWWWW Gross!!! What do I do with it?)

The gopher escaped, with a good story...
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#30 Old 05-07-2003, 04:49 PM
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I didn't say I hated you, I was just commenting on the fact that you wrote "I hated that thing."



As for how I can compare a child to a cat, I was using the analogy about how both of cats and babies need to be trained--both need to be potty trained and taught house manners.
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