I got the "Eff It's" - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 09-20-2016, 08:26 AM
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I got the "Eff It's"

I converted due to my Buddhist beliefs. I did this at the same time (converting religion and diet). So it shocked and confused the wife a lot. In the beginning it was.... " your just going to stop eating meat right?" and "not going to get all reading label crazy right?" Hehe yea..... In the beginning it was like that. So as time goes on i begin to read more and more...

<<fast forward a blah blah of story>>

Do you ever let it slide? i mean like there is that one thing (Ingredient)that's in it that ruins heaven and earth bound bliss? So you say Eff it and hit neurological nirvana for those few minutes? ( then feel horrible for like ever afterwards? ) I used to but....but now as i keep keeping on I am finding it to be harder. even if its that one thing.....I am really happy boards like this are here. because it helps me keep keeping on. and standing behind my beliefs.

I was just wondering how many of you still struggle like this at times.
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#2 Old 09-20-2016, 10:18 AM
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Everyone will have a different take on this, but mine is that occasional deviations aren't a big deal. It's the big things, not the little ones, that matter. Most Americans eat almost a pound of meat a day. Compared to that, if you occasionally order the clam chowder at a restaurant on a special occasion, it's not really a big deal. So eat up, enjoy life, and don't feel guilty. You're still part of the solution, not part of the problem. I'm in a similar situation, except that I never eat meat, but will occasionally have cheese in social settings. Therefore, I eat vegan maybe 98% of the time, but am technically a vegetarian. The label, though, is not, in my view, as important as recognizing the plight of factory farmed animals and doing something concrete to help with it, by reducing or, if you choose, eliminating the amount of animal products consumed.

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#3 Old 09-20-2016, 02:33 PM
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I find that lapses make me feel crummy, and in the final analysis, it's better to stay strong. Saying eff it is easy, but it's really not worth it. Keep on keepin' on!

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#4 Old 09-20-2016, 05:52 PM
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I'm hardcore when it comes to food, supplements, clothing, toiletries etc. Even if the only unacceptable ingredient is honey in a product, I will turn it down no exceptions.

My "exceptions" are for prescribed medications I can't live without (for example, I am on a synthetic hormone replacement due to losing my ovaries and it's the only way I can function), or when I go to the dentist twice a year, I am aware that the toothpaste they use probably isn't vegan, but it's not something I am going to refuse (unless a vegan dentist office comes to town). I've thought about bringing my own toothpaste but I am also aware they use a specific type that fits into their cleaning tools. Sometimes I use the soap in the dispensers at work or in public bathrooms because I can't always remember to bring my own and I find it's more important to wash my hands and not spread germs then use nothing at all in a shared place. Where I work, in a medical establishment, I am required to get the flu shot also. I've inquired about the egg free version but so far they say it's too costly and hard to get hold of. It's reserved only for those with allergies to egg.

Yes, it is maddening though when an otherwise perfectly nice product has one little ingredient in it that makes it not vegan (or vegetarian if that's where you're at). Just keep standing your ground and know you are doing the right thing!
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#5 Old 09-20-2016, 06:16 PM
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You guys are really strict. I ate something with a small amount of mayo on it today. I am just really happy she took the time to prepare me a nice veggie burger with avocado, tomato and lettuce, it was great. I let it pass on the mayo thing for today.

Everyone has to choose where to draw the line.
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#6 Old 09-20-2016, 08:04 PM
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I just want to assure LordDema that it's possible to make a hugely positive difference without being strict. Everyone has their own views about this. Those of you who never ever consume any animal product, I salute you. However, the world we live in is one in which there are animal products everywhere. If for social, work, taste, ceremonial or other reasons, you wish to occasionally consume some, then my view is still go for it and don't feel guilty. This is a bit off topic to this thread, though maybe not totally off topic, but I think that to some extent, the veg community in recent years has become so obsessed with purism (insisting on not only vegetarianism, but strict vegansim, and insisting on "no lapses" even with regard to trace ingredients, and often insisting on so-called "whole plant foods" rather than convenient processed items) that a standard has been created that no more than a percent or two of the population will ever follow, imo. I believe a big tent is better, and will allow easier adoption of low-animal product diets and thus cut deeper into the wallets of the animal ag industry. Just one tiny example of the problem is that Ellen Degeneres, who has done far more for farmed animals through her advocacy than anyone on this thread, has mentioned that she occasionally eats eggs from her neighbor's back yard hens and has been pilloried by many in the animal rights community. As I say, a big tent is the way to go, and LordDema, I say do what you feel comfortable with. That's my take.
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#7 Old 09-20-2016, 11:40 PM
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Note: I am not saying the name of my "God" in the following, so that it can be altered to Buddda!

As a Messianic Jew, what I do to keep me in my own personal Faith belief is say that "If my body is a temple and that my God made me and wants me to be Holy because He is Holy then I need to eat and act in a manner that respects the body He gave me." For you, you would insert Budda for "God" and I would insert the name of my God.


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#8 Old 09-21-2016, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
I just want to assure LordDema that it's possible to make a hugely positive difference without being strict. Everyone has their own views about this. Those of you who never ever consume any animal product, I salute you. However, the world we live in is one in which there are animal products everywhere. If for social, work, taste, ceremonial or other reasons, you wish to occasionally consume some, then my view is still go for it and don't feel guilty. This is a bit off topic to this thread, though maybe not totally off topic, but I think that to some extent, the veg community in recent years has become so obsessed with purism (insisting on not only vegetarianism, but strict vegansim, and insisting on "no lapses" even with regard to trace ingredients, and often insisting on so-called "whole plant foods" rather than convenient processed items) that a standard has been created that no more than a percent or two of the population will ever follow, imo. I believe a big tent is better, and will allow easier adoption of low-animal product diets and thus cut deeper into the wallets of the animal ag industry. Just one tiny example of the problem is that Ellen Degeneres, who has done far more for farmed animals through her advocacy than anyone on this thread, has mentioned that she occasionally eats eggs from her neighbor's back yard hens and has been pilloried by many in the animal rights community. As I say, a big tent is the way to go, and LordDema, I say do what you feel comfortable with. That's my take.
How do you know that Ellen Degeneres has done more than "anyone on this thread"? How do you know what kind of activism I have been involved in over the years? Maybe I am not rich or a millionaire, but I assure you I have worked hard and done my own share of activism, including leafleting on the streets and at schools, tabling (not easy as someone with social anxiety and avoidant personality disorder), bringing awesome vegan meals to work and family and other events, raising money for Farm Sanctuary, donating to animal causes and animal rights organizations, serving as a moderator on this forum (which is completely voluntary there is no pay) and simply making the choice not to buy or support the animal product industry wherever possible. I may not get the recognition because I am not a famous actress, just a lowly person working a full time job to support herself and her sick partner, who struggles with mental illness and does the best she can. I don't need to be judged and ridiculed for standing up for what I believe is right. My choices are based on ethics, not convenience. Does that make me an impossible person with too high standards?

I've encouraged many people here on the path to veganism, whether they still consume dairy, meat or whatever. I don't think I am being too judgmental of others or condemning them. Maybe I challenge ideas a bit. Heck I challenge my own beliefs and try not to become too complacent. I understand that veganism or vegetarianism etc is not an end all be all. But it's also not something that should be stretched to mean something else. If you consume eggs, you shouldn't call yourself vegan. An occasional slip one feels bad about and is trying to overcome is different.

For me it isn't about personal purity either. It is about taking a stand against animal exploitation and making a clear and non confusing statement about what is acceptable and what isn't as a vegan for ethical reasons. There is a difference between accepting a product that might have a trace of palm oil or a little sugar in it, or wearing out a nonvegan clothing item you had long before you went vegan while you are transitioning, compared to deliberately making the choice to consume eggs or another product with animal ingredients, especially when this has an impression on someone else who then thinks it's ok to eat animal products sometimes as a vegan. I think it weakens our cause, from an ethical standpoint.
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#9 Old 09-21-2016, 06:38 AM
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Naturebound, your comment is exactly what I'm talking about. It's people like you passing judgment on others, including those who are doing a lot but slightly less than you, that has caused the problem. I guarantee you that only one or two percent of the population will ever be strict and absolute like you in abstaining from animal products (at least not under current societal and technological conditions). I understand the problem of farmed animals, but it's just one among many problems in this world I'm concerned about, and I'm not going to turn my personal life upside down dealing with it. if someone wants to share a cheese pizza at a restaurant on occasion with their omni friends, then they should do so and not feel guilty about it. I note that the veg/animal rights movement is the only movement that widely promotes the meme that 100% devotion in one's personal life is required in order to be concerned about an issue. The environmental movement doesn't commonly claim that if you ever drive or ride in a car, bus, or airplane you're "weakening the cause" or whatever. I say people should do what they're comfortable with.

Again, big tent. This will also bring more people into the tent than is the case now when people like LordDema dip a toe in the water and get preached to and told they're not worthy by the very, very tiny percentage of the population that is completely abstaining (or, actually, that claims to be completely abstaining, because most self-described vegans I know occasionally lapse, even if only by grabbing cheese and crackers at a party).

As for Ellen, she has a show watched by millions of people every week, and on it she regularly promotes veganism. She has almost certainly flipped thousands, even hundreds or thousands, of people to veganism, vegetarianism, or at least meatless Mondays, thus saving, almost certainly, millions of farmed animals. Unless you have done the same, I stand by my comment that Ellen has done more for farmed animals than anyone on this thread.

Also, hint: palm oil is vegan, even if some orangutans die to clear some of the land where it is farmed. Just like rice, wheat, and soy, are vegan, even if mice and other small animals die when fields are plowed and harvested to grow it.

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#10 Old 09-21-2016, 05:07 PM
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At first, when I decided to go vegan, it did seem overwhelming and I told myself I could let a thing or two slide here or there, but very quickly on I realized there was no budging for me; I'm an all or nothing kinda girl ^_^ I know others who are pescatarian, lacto-ovo or even omnis reducing their meat intake, and I agree, there's no sense in bombarding them with the pressure to go "all the way", but to celebrate the difference they ARE making and encourage them to try to make changes a little at a time. For me, however, I'm finding that the longer I go on, the more likely I am to make even MORE positive changes rather than let things slip back to where I was before. It's not about judging other people, it's about being conscious of my own footprint and how to refine and re-evaluate my own decisions the more I learn and grow. For me, veganism is much more than about what I eat, or following a set of rules someone else has set so I can please the vegan police; it is about how I live my life, and doing as little harm as possible to the earth and those who live upon it.

ETA: and no, that does not include eating a cheese pizza - if you eat dairy, you're a vegetarian, not a vegan. No judgement, but vegans don't eat animal products, even occasionally.

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#11 Old 09-21-2016, 05:28 PM
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@Dilettante --Did you not read the OP? Here's the question:
Quote:
Do you ever let it slide? i mean like there is that one thing (Ingredient)that's in it that ruins heaven and earth bound bliss? So you say Eff it and hit neurological nirvana for those few minutes? ( then feel horrible for like ever afterwards? ) I used to but....but now as i keep keeping on I am finding it to be harder. even if its that one thing.....I am really happy boards like this are here. because it helps me keep keeping on. and standing behind my beliefs.

I was just wondering how many of you still struggle like this at times.
Where did you find judgement, or condemnation, in Naturebound's posts? I read through them a couple times and found her sharing her values--which is exactly what was requested.
We all have mind sets. I struggled with being veg'n from my teens, going back to omni during a marriage, and kids. I had always struggled with OCD and while I had a couple years of being a solid vegan, I stopped calling myself vegan as I I've been slip with ingredients, often intentionally like additives in bread. Another with getting gelatin algae DHA capsules when I was totally convinced I needed them, and they were crazy cheaper than the veg caps. I rarely find myself needing to eat out, but when I do I don't ask too many question other than the general ones about meat or broth, dairy and egg.
I highly admire Naturebound, and can verify that she has been a real mentor to members here.

I'd like to address your comparison to Ellen. When Ellen became vegan she advocated it a lot. Many celebraties came on her show and openly discussed animal rights, and the benefits of a plant based diet. In the last year or so, it stopped. Her website that had a tab at the top solely about veganism, is long gone. If you search "vegan" it brings up 2 recipes with lost links She has run a clothing company that includes CASHMIRE sweaters, and LEATHER shoes.
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but celebrities like her have done more to keep the image of vegan as a fad, and an diet that doesn't last. If you look at celebrities like Joaguin Phoenix, who routinely advocates AR, you find people that truly do live the life of a vegan, as Naturebound describes.

You have to follow your own mindset. I do understand that for so many there's a weird disconnect that happens when you try too hard and end up quitting. There is so much more to a persons life, I understand times of compromise. BUT, not everyone is the same. There ARE real vegans who oppose the use of animals as completely as most anyone else feels about humans.
As for palm oil or other things that are far more harmful to animals and the environment than you seem to be aware of, that's also a very personal decision, and yes, vegans should at least attempt to avoid it.
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#12 Old 09-21-2016, 05:30 PM
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Let's remember that this is the VEGETARIAN thread!
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#13 Old 09-21-2016, 08:36 PM
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Yes. This is a vegetarian thread, and I am technically a vegetarian, one who eats vegan almost all of the time. As for Ellen, I suspect the reason she no longer advocates for veganism much is that the vegan community disowned her after she mentioned the back yard eggs. She wasn't "perfect," so the vegan and animal rights community jumped all over her. Now a big megaphone has been lost. I suspect that Bill Maher is in the same situation. He's on the board of PETA and very rarely eats meat, but he's hesitant to do any segments on vegetarianism, veganism, or animal rights on his (incredibly popular) weekly show Real Time, probably because if he did he'd catch flack from the vegan police who control the animal rights movement. In the end, when the bar is set so high and generally sympathetic people with huge megaphones like Ellen and Bill Maher say (in the words of this thread title) "Eff it," who loses? Farmed animals.

By the way, regarding eating cheese pizza when out with friends occasionally, that's me, and I never claimed I was vegan. I've always described myself on this thread as vegetarian. I will say that the couple of people I know in real life who call themselves "vegan" make exceptions involving cheese or eggs on very rare occasions, so people on forums like this wouldn't consider them vegan despite all the inconvenience they go through in life and all the flack they catch from their omni friends and coworkers. The whole label thing (vegan, vegetarian, plant-based, etc.) is, imo, not that important anyway.

Now, regarding LordDema's original post, I say do what you're comfortable with, and if that means you don't worry if once in a blue moon you order the clam chowder at a restaurant, so be it. That's still a hugely positive step, and feel free to consider yourself a vegetarian, quasi-vegetarian, mostly vegetarian, or whatever you want. Know that your lifestyle is making a big difference to hundreds of farmed animals a year, and you can feel good about that. Don't worry what the super-strict vegans that currently control the animal rights movement think.

Finally, I'll say that I strongly respect people like NatureBound who have gone all the way to completely eliminate the use of known animal products. That's doing everything reasonably possible in their personal lives for farmed animals, it's admirable, and if it works for them, that's truly great. Other approaches and other compromises work for others, including people of good conscience who recognize the problem of animal ag and would like to eventually see humans take steps to reduce or eliminate our reliance on it.

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#14 Old 09-22-2016, 01:20 AM
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Consistency is very important to me.

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#15 Old 09-22-2016, 06:44 AM
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Interesting. Consistency is not important to me. My diet isn't a religious thing (I'm not religious at all). What is important is that humans as a species make long term progress toward reducing animal agriculture. Hopefully in a century or so it will be significantly reduced and eventually will be largely phased out in the developed world. This will mostly come about because cheaper synthetic substitutes for the animal foods that people like will come out, I suspect. This, and some pressure from the animal rights movement, will make a long term difference.
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#16 Old 09-22-2016, 01:21 PM
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Technically speaking, Buddhists are supposed to gratefully accept what they are given. Which is, of course, in direct violation to the precept of "do not kill". Like in all things, there is a middle way, and that is the true Buddhist path. Where it is for you or me or anyone else is the quest. To balance all things in this universe is the challenge and there's no way to to it perfectly every time. Open communication with those we love, help with the shopping and cooking and cleanup, and working toward mutually agreeable meals - and allowing time for everyone to adjust are key. I have one vegan Buddhist friend who lets his 75 year old mother make him a jello cake for his birthday because it was always his favorite. Who can judge him for that? Our call is live beyond labels, attachments and presumptions. Good luck!
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#17 Old 09-22-2016, 01:50 PM
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@Poppy -- I've never heard it said so well!
100% agreed!

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#18 Old 09-22-2016, 03:42 PM
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Dilettante, you are making a good general point here, and I would agree with it, but maybe you are overstating it as well. I never eat meat, fish or eggs. My exceptions are smaller impact things. I am currently using a non-vegan toothpaste of a different family member because mine run out and I haven’t got to the shop these last few days. Cheese pizza just because you feel like it I don’t agree with in terms of what I personally do. That said, I would not likely criticise anyone else for doing it. It wouldn’t feel right to do so since that’s only a small amount different to some things I do do and it’s about drawing the line.


Although I would agree with your general point, I would quibble a couple of details.


1. I don’t think it’s fair to characterize Naturebound as passing judgement or causing a problem.


2. I don’t fully accept your environment analogy. The reason is that needlessly harming a sentient creature is deeply wrong in a stronger way than just emitting some pollution. The atmosphere can handle a certain amount of CO2 or other pollutants it’s more about restricting the total amount. However, a dead cow is not comforted by all the other cows you’ve left alive. The other weakness of your analogy is that not using any fossil fuels ever (or reducing 99%) would require major sacrifices in our lives for most of us, whereas not consuming an animal products at all (or reducing 99%) is easier.
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#19 Old 09-22-2016, 05:55 PM
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The environmental analogy, I think, is pretty good, though not perfect. Tail pipe emissions do kill. Smog kills a bunch of people, mostly asthamatics, in urban areas every year and causes misery among asthmatics even if it doesn't kill them, and climate change from carbon emissions over the next century is probably going to kill hundreds of millions of people as well as cause untold loss of life among non-human animals. The fact that an individual car trip (probably) doesn't directly kill a particular human or non-human animal isn't relevant. It contributes to the problem, and if everyone stopped driving the problem would go away, just like if everyone went vegan, the problem of animal ag would go away.

Where I DO think the analogy breaks down a bit is with your point that it's easier to go vegan than to forego all travel by car, bus, or planes, though even the latter isn't totally impossible. But I agree, it's not a perfect analogy.

I also don't want to take the analogy to extremes and make it a reductio ad absurdum argument. Omnis a lot of times make arguments like that as an "excuse" to keep eating meat (i.e. saying to vegs "do you kill a mosquito when it's hovering over you?")

My overall point is that demanding 100% devotion to a cause in the way one structures his/her personal life, which is what the animal rights movement currently does, is a recipe for disaster for the movement's growth and for farmed animals. I don't even like the fact that labels like 'vegan" and "vegetarian" are put on people. It seems quasi-religious. I'm not a vegetarian who mostly eats vegan. I'm a person who substantially limits the harm I do to farmed animals. Way, way more than almost everyone else in society, and slightly less than the tiny percentage of the population who strictly adheres to veganism, and even most in that population don't COMPLETELY limit their harm, because a lot of ordinary household items have animal ingredients in them, and some have cats that they feed meat-based cat food. Then there personal care products and prescription medication that has gelatin in it. Again, I don't want to stray into a reductio ad absurdum argument to justify animal product use. I'm just saying that I think the movement, as currently structured, is in big trouble because of the radicalism that has infected it. People on some boards I've seen angrily proclaim that omnivores and even vegetarians are 'murderers." It's just not going to accomplish anything and is, frankly, a bit ridiculous.

Also, as a side note, I have a concern with the "veg" part of the words "vegetarian" and "vegan." It implies that we like to eat vegetables, and not all of us do. I don't even like most vegetables. Tempeh, chickpeas, rice, hemp seeds, almonds, veggie burgers? Love 'em. Kale and brocolli? Yuck. Moreover, a lot of things that vegetarians and vegans eat aren't even plants, that is not in the plant kingdom. They are fungi, and thus more closely related to animals. This includes mushrooms, nutritional yeast, the culture in tempeh and soy sauce, and the mycoprotein in the Quorn vegan line.

As for where we draw the line, I think that's up to individuals. You draw it a at a different place I do, and I do at at a different place than LordDema and NatureBound do. To be clear, I always eat vegan when I cook for myself, which is most of the time. I just am not going to live my life with social awkwardness like a lot of vegans do, being the one person who brings snack bars and almonds to the job or family outing, so I'll have cheese pizza or whatever in those situations.

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#20 Old 09-22-2016, 07:02 PM
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I call my diet "vegetarian and mostly vegan" but I actually think of it as reduced animal suffering diet (and lifestyle).

I think if I lived alone or with other vegans, I would probably go the last little bit and go full vegan though, I think that can be another factor, shared produce in the house.
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#21 Old 09-22-2016, 08:19 PM
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Exactly, Jamie. Me too. That's very similar to my situation, as my spouse isn't veg. It also seems to be the case for LordDema.

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#22 Old 09-23-2016, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamie in Chile View Post
I call my diet "vegetarian and mostly vegan" but I actually think of it as reduced animal suffering diet (and lifestyle).

I think if I lived alone or with other vegans, I would probably go the last little bit and go full vegan though, I think that can be another factor, shared produce in the house.
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Exactly, Jamie. Me too. That's very similar to my situation, as my spouse isn't veg. It also seems to be the case for LordDema.
It is possible to live a vegan lifestyle with an omni partner. I do it, as do others here on the forums. Once again, I am not passing judgment, but simply saying it is is possible, and that the compromises each of us is willing (or not willing, as it were) to make are different.
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#23 Old 09-23-2016, 11:45 AM
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No doubt it's possible, if I'm willing to make more effort, and it wouldn't even be that much of a huge effort so it just comes down to convenience and how much effort I'm willing to make.

Realistically I either need to 1.cook more myself, OR 2.do the shopping myself, OR 3.tell my wife precisely what to buy and not to buy (I could visit the stores she frequents, read ingredients, do a bunch of internet research, and present her with a massive list of acceptable and non-acceptable products).

But believe me when I say that all three would create friction with her - even just cooking for myself. At times she is already finding it a hassle to make separate meals. I am the family breadwinner currently and she currently doesn't work. She deals with the food side.

Maybe over time but we've got enough other things going on for now. I'd rather focus on making progress cutting carbon emissions for now, again that is going to create more friction since it means sacrifices again, less energy use, less visiting family, less holidays or whatever. There is a limit to the things she is going to agree to.

She would prefer it if I eat meat, so 98% vegan is probably not a bad compromise. Marriages are about compromise. You can't push your opinions too hard.

Still, I admit that it would be ethically better to be vegan and this just amounts to a bunch of excuses, but there you are.
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#24 Old 09-27-2016, 04:15 PM
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No doubt it's possible, if I'm willing to make more effort, and it wouldn't even be that much of a huge effort so it just comes down to convenience and how much effort I'm willing to make.

Realistically I either need to 1.cook more myself, OR 2.do the shopping myself, OR 3.tell my wife precisely what to buy and not to buy (I could visit the stores she frequents, read ingredients, do a bunch of internet research, and present her with a massive list of acceptable and non-acceptable products).

But believe me when I say that all three would create friction with her - even just cooking for myself. At times she is already finding it a hassle to make separate meals. I am the family breadwinner currently and she currently doesn't work. She deals with the food side.

Maybe over time but we've got enough other things going on for now. I'd rather focus on making progress cutting carbon emissions for now, again that is going to create more friction since it means sacrifices again, less energy use, less visiting family, less holidays or whatever. There is a limit to the things she is going to agree to.

She would prefer it if I eat meat, so 98% vegan is probably not a bad compromise. Marriages are about compromise. You can't push your opinions too hard.

Still, I admit that it would be ethically better to be vegan and this just amounts to a bunch of excuses, but there you are.
It certainly makes things more complicated when your partner is the one doing the cooking! ^_^ Since I'm the one doing the cooking, and my husband really just wants yummy food, he is quite happy to eat vegan at home with me LOL ^_^ Perhaps you could learn to make a few yummy vegan dishes for your wife, even if it was only once or twice a week - I'm sure she'd be thrilled to have you cook for her, no matter what the dish was ^_^
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#25 Old 09-27-2016, 04:47 PM
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When I do cook she tends to nosey about in the kitchen and ask what I'm doing and maybe find a fault with it or eventually try and take over. There a more traditional roles here vs developed countries; you rarely see a man wash a plate.

She also tends to plan out what to cook and when so when I start cooking for myself with x and y it turns out that apparently x was the plan for tomorrow's dinner which I have now spoiled, and y is supposedly only for the kids' school bags.

Still, even though I am not focusing on any of this right now, I could see myself trying to do more of these kinds of ideas over time.

I was a meat eater 8 months ago, and now mostly vegan, so that is not bad progress.
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#26 Old 09-27-2016, 04:50 PM
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It certainly makes things more complicated when your partner is the one doing the cooking! ^_^ Since I'm the one doing the cooking, and my husband really just wants yummy food, he is quite happy to eat vegan at home with me LOL ^_^ Perhaps you could learn to make a few yummy vegan dishes for your wife, even if it was only once or twice a week - I'm sure she'd be thrilled to have you cook for her, no matter what the dish was ^_^

Jamie doing some of the cooking himself and making vegan dishes sounds great, if that's what works for him and his wife. If not, and he's happy in his current situation with doing mostly vegan, with some minor exceptions, then that's great as well, as far as I'm concerned.
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#27 Old 09-28-2016, 04:20 AM
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I definitely feel fed up sometimes (no pun intended). I feel like I can't acquire the food I need to supplement my lifestyle choices - some days I feel hopeless but I never give in or 'give up' - as you should't either!

Feeling terrible I've been there! But you need to do something to incorporate your beliefs into your life more-so than just the changing your diet. For example start training with your wife (exercising etc.) let her do her thing with the food as you do yours (and this can still strengthen your relationship with her and your beliefs if you allow it.

Don't allow yourself to get stuck sitting there feeling bad - you've made good choices and for reasons I cannot name (your beliefs - such a great way to find this path by the way!) do not get down about it, instead remember you found this for your own reasons, that you have the will to continue with such and to never give up on something that means so much to you! There is always ups and downs in life, and unfortunately it effects the way we eat and even digest our food, however I wish the best for you and I hope you come out on top!

-Andy
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#28 Old 09-28-2016, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
Everyone will have a different take on this, but mine is that occasional deviations aren't a big deal. It's the big things, not the little ones, that matter. Most Americans eat almost a pound of meat a day. Compared to that, if you occasionally order the clam chowder at a restaurant on a special occasion, it's not really a big deal. So eat up, enjoy life, and don't feel guilty. You're still part of the solution, not part of the problem. I'm in a similar situation, except that I never eat meat, but will occasionally have cheese in social settings. Therefore, I eat vegan maybe 98% of the time, but am technically a vegetarian. The label, though, is not, in my view, as important as recognizing the plight of factory farmed animals and doing something concrete to help with it, by reducing or, if you choose, eliminating the amount of animal products consumed.
I really liked this posters response. I, too, would feel guilty when I found myself in situations where I was not in control. I figured I had two options: 1. Spanish inquisition the waiter or host about every item on the menu 2. Do the best you can in the situation you find yourself. I chose the latter and will not eat meat but will eat some cheese.

I think the last choice allowed others, who do not hold my beliefs, to talk to me and discuss why I chose this stance. It started a conversation. I get a lot of "Why do you?...How do you?..Is it hard?" While being purely plant based when I cook and not stressing myself out and forgiving myself in social situations allows me to enjoy my social times with family and friends. Social time and enjoying life is as important to health and emotional well being as nourishing yourself with plants.

Last edited by veggielover838; 09-28-2016 at 05:36 AM.
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#29 Old 09-28-2016, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
It certainly makes things more complicated when your partner is the one doing the cooking! ^_^ Since I'm the one doing the cooking, and my husband really just wants yummy food, he is quite happy to eat vegan at home with me LOL ^_^ Perhaps you could learn to make a few yummy vegan dishes for your wife, even if it was only once or twice a week - I'm sure she'd be thrilled to have you cook for her, no matter what the dish was ^_^

Jamie doing some of the cooking himself and making vegan dishes sounds great, if that's what works for him and his wife. If not, and he's happy in his current situation with doing mostly vegan, with some minor exceptions, then that's great as well, as far as I'm concerned.
I think it's great that it's OK with you and I'm sure Jamie will sleep better tonight knowing that (LOL) but to be honest, I have no opinion on what someone else does in their own home one way or another; I simply offered a suggestion on what has worked in my own life based on the previous comment that it was less possible to live with an omni and be 100% vegan, and the fact that I have some personal experience in the matter. We are all here to help and support one another, and whatever place we are all at in our journey, I think we can all agree we are on the same team ^_^
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#30 Old 09-28-2016, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamie in Chile View Post
When I do cook she tends to nosey about in the kitchen and ask what I'm doing and maybe find a fault with it or eventually try and take over. There a more traditional roles here vs developed countries; you rarely see a man wash a plate.

She also tends to plan out what to cook and when so when I start cooking for myself with x and y it turns out that apparently x was the plan for tomorrow's dinner which I have now spoiled, and y is supposedly only for the kids' school bags.

Still, even though I am not focusing on any of this right now, I could see myself trying to do more of these kinds of ideas over time.

I was a meat eater 8 months ago, and now mostly vegan, so that is not bad progress.
I can definitely understand the delicacy of that situation! ^_^ Meal planning is a lot of work and it can be tricky when something happens to throw it off kilter! :P Kudos to you for sticking to it and I wish you the best of luck as you continue your journey
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