A realized veganism - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 06-08-2016, 11:53 PM
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Arrow A realized veganism

If I had to survive in cold lands, I'd be chomping on moose meat. If I found myself on an isolate island, I'd also take what I can and eat crabs and fish. We, people, have found ways into unlivable places and made our conditions in them endurable mainly thanks to animals. Would I eat that what I mentioned above in my situation? I have access to tens to hudreds of stores and markets where I can buy food. I do not have to survive, just like everybody else here. No longer such times in developed countries take place where people have to hunt for themselves yet people choose to sacrifice an animal for their own sake - without even feeling a gratitude to their prey, especially because there is no more connection between consumer and food. No, I would not and I do not eat meat in my situation for it is unnecessary. Only now I've realized what I ought to hear from veganism spreaders. They're mainly religious about veganism claiming that all animal exploitation must be stopped. It has to be stopped where it can be stopped - in the lands of the developed nations where access to food is stretch of a hand away.


Thanks for reading! I've got something off-topic that I've been thinking about, expecially due to my roomate being quite complete the opposite of vegan. What would happen to the farm animals if everyone stopped exploiting them? Would we let them die or would we feed them the same amount of food that is necessary for meat production?
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#2 Old 06-09-2016, 12:28 AM
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Do you live somewhere where veganism would be by your definition impossible? No?

Don't move there.

Y'know, I don't eat human flesh, but never once have I felt the need to qualify that with "but if I was in a plane crash in the Andes ..." to justify my non-cannibalism.

As far as what to do with the animals ... That's kind of basic supply and demand. As demand decreases, producers breed fewer animals. That's kind of the way this stuff works.

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Last edited by Dave in MPLS; 06-09-2016 at 12:40 AM.
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#3 Old 06-09-2016, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chestnutjam View Post
If I had to survive in cold lands, I'd be chomping on moose meat. If I found myself on an isolate island, I'd also take what I can and eat crabs and fish. We, people, have found ways into unlivable places and made our conditions in them endurable mainly thanks to animals. Would I eat that what I mentioned above in my situation? I have access to tens to hudreds of stores and markets where I can buy food. I do not have to survive, just like everybody else here. No longer such times in developed countries take place where people have to hunt for themselves yet people choose to sacrifice an animal for their own sake - without even feeling a gratitude to their prey, especially because there is no more connection between consumer and food. No, I would not and I do not eat meat in my situation for it is unnecessary. Only now I've realized what I ought to hear from veganism spreaders. They're mainly religious about veganism claiming that all animal exploitation must be stopped. It has to be stopped where it can be stopped - in the lands of the developed nations where access to food is stretch of a hand away.


Thanks for reading! I've got something off-topic that I've been thinking about, expecially due to my roomate being quite complete the opposite of vegan. What would happen to the farm animals if everyone stopped exploiting them? Would we let them die or would we feed them the same amount of food that is necessary for meat production?
The honest truth? As the demand for meat goes down slowly, the amount of animal breeding will as well. This sort of thought experiment acts as though the world will go vegan in an instant, in a vaccuum, whereas the process of change is infinitely more gradual. It starts with things like the recent World Health Organization's recommendations to people in developed nations to begin scaling down their meat consumption in favor of a plant based diet. It starts with celebrities that are legitimately vegan using their platform to further the cause without hypocritical contracts from the meat and dairy industries for advertising. And it starts with individual vegans luring people into their kitchens with the delicious smells of cooking vegan food. When people demand less animal products, less animals will be bred for production, and the populations will diminish as a result, making the concern of "where will they all go" less significant. Those that are left, in a vegan planet scenario, could be either kept in sanctuaries and allowed controlled breeding, or those that have enough natural instinct left to return to the wild could be slowly reintroduced back into it.

As far as developing countries are concerned, that's a whole different animal. As controversial as this is to say, humans did reach where we are now through animal exploitation, and for countries that are more or less frozen in the developing state, milk and meat may provide concentrated enough calorie sources for survival. The problem we in the developed world face is providing charity that teaches and enriches, promotes self-sustainability rather than dependence, and helps with the unique challenges of war-torn areas with weak central governments. Many people in those areas are resistant to the developed way of life, including in "civilized" areas like Australia where many hunting and gathering tribes still continue their native ways of life via permits from the government to hunt. It takes longer than anyone would like to think to slowly reteach culture, though many of these subsistence farmers are mostly vegetarian anyhow, considering animals are more valuable for their milk, eggs, and labor than they are for their meat in those situations.

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Originally Posted by Dave in MPLS View Post
Do you live somewhere where veganism would be by your definition impossible? No?

Don't move there.

Y'know, I don't eat human flesh, but never once have I felt the need to qualify that with "but if I was in a plane crash in the Andes ..." to justify my non-cannibalism.
I didn't get any anti-vegan vibe off of the post, and the OP has posted several other things defending veganism, I think this was just a thought experiment.

It's better to burn out than fade away! - Def Leppard


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#4 Old 06-09-2016, 12:52 AM
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Aliakai, you bring such harmony. I know it's just letters and stuff, but I went rough with replying to Dave, although I changed my mind. You seem wise and understandable, and to me it feels so fatherly... like... like Gandalf.

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Originally Posted by Aliakai View Post
I think this was just a thought experiment.
This life is but an experiment, and so started my veganism, too. But why would a vegan not question their own deeds and the ones of their kind, especially if a though has not been fueled? This is a way of growing wiser and stronger. Sticking to "all vegan good, all non-vegan bad" is immature and does no good, and is one of the reasons why vegans seem so whiny on the internet and have become a meme.

Last edited by chestnutjam; 06-09-2016 at 01:00 AM.
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#5 Old 06-09-2016, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by chestnutjam View Post
Aliakai, you bring such harmony. I know it's just letters and stuff, but I went rough with replying to Dave, although I changed my mind. You seem wise and understandable, and to me it feels so fatherly... like... like Gandalf.


This life is but an experiment, and so started my veganism, too. But why would a vegan not question their own deeds and the ones of their kind, especially if a though has not been fueled? This is a way of growing wiser and stronger. Sticking to "all vegan good, all non-vegan bad" is immature and does no good.
Thank you for the compliment. I've started a few fights here and there, but I really try to be understanding. I would call myself more motherly than fatherly though, mostly because I am a cisgendered female.

It's better to burn out than fade away! - Def Leppard


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#6 Old 06-09-2016, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliakai View Post
The honest truth? As the demand for meat goes down slowly, the amount of animal breeding will as well. This sort of thought experiment acts as though the world will go vegan in an instant, in a vaccuum, whereas the process of change is infinitely more gradual. It starts with things like the recent World Health Organization's recommendations to people in developed nations to begin scaling down their meat consumption in favor of a plant based diet. It starts with celebrities that are legitimately vegan using their platform to further the cause without hypocritical contracts from the meat and dairy industries for advertising. And it starts with individual vegans luring people into their kitchens with the delicious smells of cooking vegan food. When people demand less animal products, less animals will be bred for production, and the populations will diminish as a result, making the concern of "where will they all go" less significant. Those that are left, in a vegan planet scenario, could be either kept in sanctuaries and allowed controlled breeding, or those that have enough natural instinct left to return to the wild could be slowly reintroduced back into it.

As far as developing countries are concerned, that's a whole different animal. As controversial as this is to say, humans did reach where we are now through animal exploitation, and for countries that are more or less frozen in the developing state, milk and meat may provide concentrated enough calorie sources for survival. The problem we in the developed world face is providing charity that teaches and enriches, promotes self-sustainability rather than dependence, and helps with the unique challenges of war-torn areas with weak central governments. Many people in those areas are resistant to the developed way of life, including in "civilized" areas like Australia where many hunting and gathering tribes still continue their native ways of life via permits from the government to hunt. It takes longer than anyone would like to think to slowly reteach culture, though many of these subsistence farmers are mostly vegetarian anyhow, considering animals are more valuable for their milk, eggs, and labor than they are for their meat in those situations.



I didn't get any anti-vegan vibe off of the post, and the OP has posted several other things defending veganism, I think this was just a thought experiment.
Excellent response.
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