Is there such a think as cruelty-free dairy? - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 04-11-2009, 04:12 PM
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To be kosher the animals cannot be stunned before they are killed, so it is actually the least humane method of slaughter.
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#32 Old 04-11-2009, 04:41 PM
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The Cow must be killed in a special way that we call "sh'chitah," ritual slaughtering. It can't be just killed. There are many, many Laws in the Torah about the proper way to do this killing, and it takes a great deal of training to learn how to do it properly.



The point is, it was properly killed.
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#33 Old 04-11-2009, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by OilPatch197 View Post

The Cow must be killed in a special way that we call "sh'chitah," ritual slaughtering. It can't be just killed. There are many, many Laws in the Torah about the proper way to do this killing, and it takes a great deal of training to learn how to do it properly.



The point is, it was properly killed.

Sometimes, momentarily, I think pot should remain criminalized.
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#34 Old 04-11-2009, 06:16 PM
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Sometimes, momentarily, I think pot should remain criminalized.



nooooo...
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#35 Old 04-11-2009, 06:50 PM
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There are Hare Krishna farms where they don't kill the calves, and take only excess milk that the mother cows produce
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#36 Old 04-11-2009, 08:11 PM
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human milk could be cruelty free...



http://www.wptz.com/news/17539127/detail.html
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#37 Old 04-11-2009, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by beepbeeplove View Post

There are Hare Krishna farms where they don't kill the calves, and take only excess milk that the mother cows produce



Uh yeah...there's only one person on the board who claims to get some dairy from that kind of source.



It doesn't solve any of the environmental issues with "livestock" either. It just puts more greenhouse gas polluting cows on the planet for humans to use for awhile. It seems to be really difficult for some humans to wean themselves from breastmilk.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

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#38 Old 04-11-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboMonkey View Post

To be kosher the animals cannot be stunned before they are killed, so it is actually the least humane method of slaughter.

I guess when its done "properly" it doesn't need to be humane.



Quote:
Originally Posted by OilPatch197 View Post

The Cow must be killed in a special way that we call "sh'chitah," ritual slaughtering. It can't be just killed. There are many, many Laws in the Torah about the proper way to do this killing, and it takes a great deal of training to learn how to do it properly.



The point is, it was properly killed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kuhliloach View Post

human milk could be cruelty free...



http://www.wptz.com/news/17539127/detail.html

But it won't make cheese!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

It seems to be really difficult for some humans to wean themselves from breastmilk.

It seems to be really difficult for many humans to grow up period!

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#39 Old 04-13-2009, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

Uh yeah...there's only one person on the board who claims to get some dairy from that kind of source.



It doesn't solve any of the environmental issues with "livestock" either. It just puts more greenhouse gas polluting cows on the planet for humans to use for awhile. It seems to be really difficult for some humans to wean themselves from breastmilk.



It's still cruelty-free though
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#40 Old 04-13-2009, 03:59 PM
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Nope, no such thing as cruelty-free. The milk is for the calf. There is no such thing as extra milk. If the calf doesn't drink all the milk than the supply will adjust itself to produce just what is needed. If you take the 'extra' milk then you are just telling the mother to produce more milk. It is very uncomfortable if not downright painful to constantly be walking around with all that milk. By telling the cows body to produce more milk for your consumption you are turning her into a milk production machine for your benefit and enjoyment, at the expense of her comfort and excess wear & tear on her body.
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#41 Old 02-19-2018, 07:52 AM
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As far as production goes...I don't think it possible to eliminate all exploitation of the animal on a dairy farm. It seems to boil down to what you an live with.<br><br>
There is a place in MN ( my state) that rotates their milk cows in and out of production, does not seperate calf from mother, uses no injections, and grass feed the animals. Pasture is available and used by the animals. They process their own products so nothing is contaminated by "factory" dairies. they mostly sell in coops, farmers markets, and buying groups with home delivery.<br><br>
Great people cuz, you can talk to them at the market, call them on the phone, and even go out to visit.<br><br>
To me, this is humane farming, conscientious farming, respectful farming. That family really works hard, they are dedicated to proving that the small family run business can thrive and be kind to the animals that provide their lively-hood. My son does milk, daughter eats cheese, I eat Icecream...so, they have our business.<br><br>
C-Sta

Hello. Where is this particular farm in MN? And do you have contact details?

Thank you!
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#42 Old 03-09-2018, 07:56 AM
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No , only vegan alternatives
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#43 Old 03-09-2018, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by OilPatch197

My opinion is this:



Drive by a large beef cattle feed lot in the summer, now drive by the dairy farm.



Um, lets see dairy cows that have grazing pastures, or angus cattle that walk in their own filth?




Now drive past the veal crate...



Quote:#35 is a two-days old baby, his umbilical chord is still attached, his coat is still slick with birth fluids, his eyes are unfocused, his legs, wobbly. He is crying pitifully for his mother. No one answers. He will live his entire short life an orphan, his only experience of mother love will be one of yearning for it, his only experience of emotional connection, one of absence. Soon, the memory of his mother, her face, her voice, her scent, will fade, but the painful, irrepressible longing for her warmth will still be there. At four months old, he and other orphans like himself will be corralled into trucks and hauled to slaughter. As he will be dragged onto the killing floor, he will still be looking for his mother, still desperately needing her nurturing presence, especially at that dark time when he will be frightened and needing her more than ever in the midst of the terrible sights, and sounds, and scents of death all around him and, in his despair, in his want for a shred of consolation and protection, he, like most baby calves, will try to suckle the fingers of his killers.



He is the face of the "rose" veal we are encouraging "responsible restaurant leaders" to use.




Quote:#6, is a first time mother. She is frantic. Her baby is missing. She is pacing desperately up and down the paddock, bellowing and crying, and calling for her lost boy, fearing the worst, having her fears confirmed. She is one of the thousands of defenseless females born into a quaint, verdant, organic dairy farm. She will spend her entire short life grieving the loss of baby after baby. She will be milked relentlessly through repeated cycles of pregnancies and bereavements. Her only experience of motherhood will be that of a mother's worst loss. In the prime of her life, her body will give, her spirit will break, her milk "production" will decline, and she will be sent to a horrifying slaughter, along with other grieving, defeated, "spent" mothers like herself.



She is the face of organic milk.


\t

http://www.peacefulprairie.org/letter.html
The above is all that should be needed to turn a compassion-driven lacto-vegetarian into a vegan. All arguments about magical places where it's wonderful for dairy cows and calves hold no water. Why is a vegan most against dairy? In a word, VEAL!

As a male I particularly despise the cruel end for more males in dairy and egg industries.
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#44 Old 03-12-2018, 02:19 PM
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The closest thing to a cruelty-free dairy farm that I know of would be Hare Krishna farms. Cows (and bulls) are taken care of for the duration of their natural life. They also run the "Care for Cows International" (at careforcows.org ) which rescues abandoned cows and bulls in India; and also the International Society for Cow Protection (at iscowp.org).

There are about 60 Hare Krishna farms around the world, several are in the U.S. Here is the current list: centers.iskcondesiretree.com/farm-and-rural-communities/
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#45 Old 03-12-2018, 02:43 PM
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Cruelty free dairy? What does that even mean?

The premise is that dairy products would be okay if only the cows were treated well. But lets go back a few steps. "Dairy products" are made from milk. Milk is a substance that all female mammals produce to feed their young. Evolution has resulted in many species of mammals, from kangaroos to koalas, gorillas to yaks, mice to dolphins and elephants to humans. Every mammal has mammary glands (hence the word mammal) and when the female of any mammalian species is pregnant, her body prepares sustenance for her offspring. The milk produced by a human is formulated to grow an infant person into a toddler who will stop drinking mother's milk once he/she has teeth for chewing solid food. The same is true for each species. Cow milk has the right nutrients to sustain and nurture an infant calf, who will grow very rapidly into a large, muscular animal with large bones and a long digestive tract. Whale milk is similarly formulated with appropriate nutrients for an infant sea mammal who will eventually weigh several tons. And so it goes with each species. Mouse babies grow rapidly from birth to maturity, while horses take longer for their bones to calcify and their teeth to mature for chewing grass. Wolves nurse longer than horses and suckle until they are able to chew the partially digested food their mother provides from the hunt. Do you get the picture? Each mammal produces a substance for her own species, with the appropriate nutrients to feed and sustain her babies until they are able to eat solid food. Only our species, humans, intentionally consume the milk of other species, and continue to do so long after our teeth and digestive tracts can handle solid food., Bottom line - cow milk is not meant to be human food. Neither is goat milk. And even human milk is not supposed to be human food after our teeth grow in. The whole idea of the slogan "milk is a natural" is false. It's the most unnatural substance we can put in our bodies. And going back to the purpose of milk, it's produced by mammals to nourish their babies. That means it is "byproduct" of pregnancy, not a substance that any species continually produces. When an animal is pregnant, the offspring is just as likely to be male as female. Only females will ever produce milk so the males become an unwanted expense to those whose only interest is in "dairy products." Raising animals for their milk, no matter how kindly they are treated, is expensive. In fact, the better the care, the greater the expense. So even if a cow is treated like a princess, and even if she naturally produces more milk than her baby can drink, and even if her baby is a boy and he is allowed to drink as much as he wants and then cared for the rest of his life, his mother will eventually stop lactating unless she is pregnant again. This explanation is way too long already, but I really wanted to make the point. Milk is not a natural food, and in my opinion it can never be produced without cruelty and exploitation. Meanwhile, there are dozens of really great recipes for soy cheese, cashew cheese, almond cheese, and even recipes that use cauliflower and sweet potatoes to make macaroni & cheese. There's hemp milk, rice milk, hazelnut milk, pea milk and more.
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#46 Old 03-13-2018, 04:14 AM
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Replying about cheese and dairy is not humane

I actually like the Daiya block cheese. It doesn't melt super well, but it does have the flavor of cheese and slices like cheese.

As far as cows, unless a person is keeping a cow for life as a pet or the cow is on a sanctuary, then having a cow is not acceptable. They also give off too much waste, take in too much food, and give off too much CO2 and methane. We must end all forms of farming. And what about branding, dehorning, castrating, etc? Nothing is humane about farming and we see too many farmers (undercover videos) who are abusive to their cows and other animals, even with "certified humane" standards.
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#47 Old 03-13-2018, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by OilPatch197

My opinion is this:



Drive by a large beef cattle feed lot in the summer, now drive by the dairy farm.



Um, lets see dairy cows that have grazing pastures, or angus cattle that walk in their own filth?




Now drive past the veal crate...



Quote:#35 is a two-days old baby, his umbilical chord is still attached, his coat is still slick with birth fluids, his eyes are unfocused, his legs, wobbly. He is crying pitifully for his mother. No one answers. He will live his entire short life an orphan, his only experience of mother love will be one of yearning for it, his only experience of emotional connection, one of absence. Soon, the memory of his mother, her face, her voice, her scent, will fade, but the painful, irrepressible longing for her warmth will still be there. At four months old, he and other orphans like himself will be corralled into trucks and hauled to slaughter. As he will be dragged onto the killing floor, he will still be looking for his mother, still desperately needing her nurturing presence, especially at that dark time when he will be frightened and needing her more than ever in the midst of the terrible sights, and sounds, and scents of death all around him and, in his despair, in his want for a shred of consolation and protection, he, like most baby calves, will try to suckle the fingers of his killers.



He is the face of the "rose" veal we are encouraging "responsible restaurant leaders" to use.




Quote:#6, is a first time mother. She is frantic. Her baby is missing. She is pacing desperately up and down the paddock, bellowing and crying, and calling for her lost boy, fearing the worst, having her fears confirmed. She is one of the thousands of defenseless females born into a quaint, verdant, organic dairy farm. She will spend her entire short life grieving the loss of baby after baby. She will be milked relentlessly through repeated cycles of pregnancies and bereavements. Her only experience of motherhood will be that of a mother's worst loss. In the prime of her life, her body will give, her spirit will break, her milk "production" will decline, and she will be sent to a horrifying slaughter, along with other grieving, defeated, "spent" mothers like herself.



She is the face of organic milk.


\t

http://www.peacefulprairie.org/letter.html
^ This.


Furthermore, even in supposedly ideal circumstances (which are rare or virtually nonexistent in the majority of the world), where none of the animals are ever slaughtered and all live out their natural lives in comfortable surroundings ... we'd still be feeding off the teats of another species on milk that's made for her baby. She's not giving it to us, we're taking it. How this should be seen as normal and ok is beyond me ... but the reality is that such scenarios are "udderly" and completely unsustainable for milk "production" generally, both financially and environmentally (there's not enough land on the planet to "grass feed" the number of agribusiness cows that are kept, never mind the pollution of our seas and streams from their waste, and our skies from their methane emissions - climate change, anyone?). So milk consumption is unethical in several ways ... but again, the VAST majority of milk consumed is horribly inhumane in its origin, much better to simply not eat the stuff.


Consuming cows' milk is COMPLETEY unnecessary for humans (75% of us are lactose intolerant, so how "necessary" can it possibly be?), and it's also very unhealthy, full of harmful animal protein, saturated fat, hormones, and contaminants. It's mind boggling that some folks can be concerned about soy consumption (which is not unhealthy, despite myths surrounding this) but be fine with drinking milk from cows, which s very demonstrably unhealthy. Bad for our health, bad for the planet, and very, very, horribly bad for those mothers and babies. Got milk? Got cruelty.
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