Vegetarian documentaries have no effect on me... - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 05-27-2015, 05:56 AM
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Vegetarian documentaries have no effect on me...

So I've been trying to transition to vegetarian for around 3 months now, mostly for health reasons and for when I go to university it will be cheaper for me in the long run.

I've tried to watch Earthlings and Oprah Winfrey Goes Vegan but I just feel that documentaries like Earthlings are set ups to fit an agenda and I just can't believe it. When watching the Oprah documentary it wasn't THAT bad.

I don't want to scare myself obviously, I just want to have more of a reason to be doing this. I've had people ask "why are you going vegetarian" and I can't really come up with a certain answer. If I watched one of these documentaries and used it for back up of why I am doing this, I'd be called "gullible".

I just need more of a reason to do this because I feel that I'll just slip back into my omnivore ways if I don't have a reason.
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#2 Old 05-27-2015, 06:31 AM
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Why do want to go veggie in the first place? There's your answer.
If you are uncomfortable relying on the ethical aspects of vegetarianism, you can always blame the myriad health benefits. Have some facts on hand if you feel the urge to explain your decision.
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#3 Old 05-27-2015, 06:49 AM
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You don't needa good reason to do a good thing.
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#4 Old 05-27-2015, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mecanna View Post
Why do want to go veggie in the first place? There's your answer.
If you are uncomfortable relying on the ethical aspects of vegetarianism, you can always blame the myriad health benefits. Have some facts on hand if you feel the urge to explain your decision.
Yes it's mostly health reasons, also because I do not enjoy handling raw meat and it will be a struggle cooking away from home, I have fears about meat being uncooked and food poisoning. It's very rare to get food poisoning from anything other than meat that is in date and I've been ill many times because of badly stored and uncooked chicken and beef.

I just feel like these 'fears' don't make me good enough, I see people on here really caring about animal welfare and being really affected by the documentaries so I feel a bit heartless!
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#5 Old 05-27-2015, 07:02 AM
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You don't needa good reason to do a good thing.
Yeah, I mean that's what I thought although when I do tell people I'm veggie they'll automatically try and see if my reason is good enough (and I don't have a certain reason at all, I just feel it's right!).
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#6 Old 05-27-2015, 07:14 AM
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Just remember, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone.

You can say, " I'm veggie for health reasons." If they press further, you can say, "That's a bit personal," and cut the questions off before they start (in some cases.)

Other than, spout off health statistics. "A vegetarian diet is healthy because A,B, and C. I'm choosing to live a healthier life."
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#7 Old 05-27-2015, 07:19 AM
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#8 Old 05-27-2015, 07:38 AM
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There's no right, nor wrong, reason to become vegetarian or vegan. You do however, need to have a reason in order to stick it out in the long run.

I can somewhat relate to how you're feeling about the documentaries you've watched. Years prior to becoming vegetarian and vegan, I too watched documentaries and videos of what was going on in the meat, egg and milk industries, and while they horrified me, it had no lasting effect on my behavior. An hour or two later, I'd forgotten what I had watched and how it made me feel and I would continue eating and living as before. This continued until one day, it just clicked and I could not simply forget anymore.

Awareness is a journey, and people take different roads to get there. Just keep gathering information, and trying!

And please, don't concern yourself with your reason not being 'good enough' in the eyes of those around you. It's enough that you find it satisfactory.
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#9 Old 05-27-2015, 09:22 AM
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I think you should watch "Forks Over Knives" it's a documentary about human health. From your initial post I gather that your main reason is for health, this documentary will help you explain to people the health of effects of a vegetarian diet vs. an omnivorous diet.
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#10 Old 05-27-2015, 09:30 AM
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Just remember, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone.

You can say, " I'm veggie for health reasons." If they press further, you can say, "That's a bit personal," and cut the questions off before they start (in some cases.)

Other than, spout off health statistics. "A vegetarian diet is healthy because A,B, and C. I'm choosing to live a healthier life."
Yeah, I mean if I said "health reasons" they might assume I have some sort of allergy so might not push on that, that's a good idea though! c: Thanks!
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#11 Old 05-27-2015, 09:49 AM
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[Mod Message. Quoted post advocating meat eating deleted. Leedsveg]


Of course, however I feel that my fear of meat and being poisoned is enough for me to give it up, maybe I'll continue with the lifestyle after university or maybe I won't, but I want to make my time being veggie educational. I don't want to give up unless I have a reason to give up

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#12 Old 05-27-2015, 09:49 AM
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only you know why your going vegetarian.

theres no point in telling your friends the reason, that i went vegetarian. you have to find your own path in life. if you can't stomach the thoughts of a pig being born in captivity, torn away from his mother, fattened up and then put in a cue, watching his friends get an iron bar smashed in there faces, knowing he's next then your going because for ethical reasons. if not then for health reasons.
i don't know how you were brought up, but if you have no emotional connection to animals, it could be you've never petted a cow, or raised chickens, I've met very caring people, that have no feelings for animals.
because either. they grow up on a farm, and they were told animal-food, from a very young age. or they were brought up in a city, where they have never been with animals.
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#13 Old 05-27-2015, 11:01 AM
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only you know why your going vegetarian.
i don't know how you were brought up, but if you have no emotional connection to animals, it could be you've never petted a cow, or raised chickens, I've met very caring people, that have no feelings for animals.
because either. they grow up on a farm, and they were told animal-food, from a very young age. or they were brought up in a city, where they have never been with animals.
Some people have less empathy than others. Don't feel forced to feel empathy. Your choices will be less emotional but that doesn't mean they'll be bad. I've recently read "meat the truth" http://www.meatthetruth.nl/en/ (it's also a movie). The book gives you different reasons to be vegetarian (or reduce animal products intake). You can know those different reasons, and you can also agree with some. Which will give you more ideas when people ask you about the veggie thing.



I first didn't care much about animals and after being veggie for some years I'm now feeling concerned about it.


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#14 Old 05-27-2015, 11:52 AM
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only you know why your going vegetarian.

theres no point in telling your friends the reason, that i went vegetarian. you have to find your own path in life. if you can't stomach the thoughts of a pig being born in captivity, torn away from his mother, fattened up and then put in a cue, watching his friends get an iron bar smashed in there faces, knowing he's next then your going because for ethical reasons. if not then for health reasons.
i don't know how you were brought up, but if you have no emotional connection to animals, it could be you've never petted a cow, or raised chickens, I've met very caring people, that have no feelings for animals.
because either. they grow up on a farm, and they were told animal-food, from a very young age. or they were brought up in a city, where they have never been with animals.
Yes of course, there's no point lying about it!

"if you can't stomach the thoughts of a pig being born in captivity, torn away from his mother, fattened up and then put in a cue, watching his friends get an iron bar smashed in there faces, knowing he's next "
- I'd rather you skip the guilt-tripping though, I see vegetarianism in a diet perspective and not ethically.

I've never petted a cow, never raised chickens. However, I don't think it's a lack of empathy but an understanding of how things are done. I don't want to be seen as 'soft' or 'sensitive', I mean animals are killed and eaten for meat and I know and accept that. The whole "if we keep dogs as pets why don't we eat dogs" but some cultures eat dogs, some eat cats, some eat rabbit. I think when I start saying "well I'd eat this animal but eating THIS animal is GROSS, it kind of feels disrespectful of other cultures to me. I've just been brought up in this sort of household and I need more of a ground for my vegetarianism.
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#15 Old 05-27-2015, 11:53 AM
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Some people have less empathy than others. Don't feel forced to feel empathy. Your choices will be less emotional but that doesn't mean they'll be bad. I've recently read "meat the truth" http://www.meatthetruth.nl/en/ (it's also a movie). The book gives you different reasons to be vegetarian (or reduce animal products intake). You can know those different reasons, and you can also agree with some. Which will give you more ideas when people ask you about the veggie thing.



I first didn't care much about animals and after being veggie for some years I'm now feeling concerned about it.
Wow that's a really good link thank you, I'll give it a watch! It'll help me base my arguments too
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#16 Old 05-27-2015, 01:02 PM
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sorry I'm not trying to guilt trip you. and i know vegys have a rep for that, but what i mean is.
I know a guy he bought two pigs ''old breeds big hairy fellas'' He had them a few years when they were ready to eat he had gotten attached to them. but he didn't want to seem soft, and he did buy them for food, After a couple of months thinking about it, He went out one morning filled there troff with nice food, they turned there back on him, And he was left there thinking dose he really like bacon that much, in the end he couldn't kill them, but got some one else to kill one of them, But when they were all frozen up he couldn't eat any of it.
So my point was no documentary, is going to turn you off meat. paul mcCartney said if the slaughter house had glass walls every one would be vegetarian. and and i agree the world is a very nasty place. but if you limit the cruelty you cause at least you can say i did my best.


i know this all sound very preachy. but really on less you experience some thing like that your self its hard to have conviction.
that one day changed that guys whole out look on life.
its not like hunting down a wild deer that could easily stick a antler thru. you when you feed an animal, they see you as the boss there friend some one that looks after them.

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#17 Old 05-27-2015, 01:12 PM
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I just feel that documentaries like Earthlings are set ups to fit an agenda
For what it's worth I went out for dinner with a friend of mine who is a vet after I watched Earthlings. I asked her what she knew about factory farming and it turns out as part of her training she spent time in factory farms and slaughter houses in both Canada and the United States. She says that what she saw there was horrifying and that documentaries like Earthlings and Meet your Meat are in fact accurate portrayals of the system.

Oddly enough she's still an omnivore. She told me she is comfortable with her disconnect and isn't looking to change at this time.
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#18 Old 05-27-2015, 06:21 PM
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For what it's worth I went out for dinner with a friend of mine who is a vet after I watched Earthlings. I asked her what she knew about factory farming and it turns out as part of her training she spent time in factory farms and slaughter houses in both Canada and the United States. She says that what she saw there was horrifying and that documentaries like Earthlings and Meet your Meat are in fact accurate portrayals of the system.

Oddly enough she's still an omnivore. She told me she is comfortable with her disconnect and isn't looking to change at this time.
My husband worked on a large dairy farm many years ago before we met. He witnessed terrible things (separation of calves from mothers, still born calves etc). And he too is still an omnivore, though he won't kill bugs or flies now, defends wild animals from hunting, and eats vegetarian at home. Go figure..

I personally witnessed the inside of a turkey warehouse once when my husband and I were driving to his parents house three hours from where we live. It was one of those large row houses with no windows and the company that owned it advertises that their meat products are "natural". At any rate, that day it was very hot outside. There must have been something wrong with the cooling system in that rowhouse because the side door was open and there was a wire cage across it covering the entire doorway. And as we drove by, I saw them. Thousands of turkeys crawling on top of eachother and cramming themselves against the wires trying to get air. They were free rangers, meaning they were allowed to roam the floors of the warehous. But there were so many of them it was ridiculous. I later called and complained to the company only to be met with lies and excuses. What I saw was very real and my husband witnessed it too and was disgusted.

I would suggest visiting a farm sanctuary and learning about the individual rescued farm animals. Or find a factory farm and get a good look at it if you aren't too far from one. Sometimes seeing that stuff with your own eyes means more than a documentary.

Also, for the record, vegetables can and have been contaminated with many of the same bacteria as meat because of pollution of the soil and animal manure/bones etc being used as fertilizer and so on. I remember massive cases of spinach recalls in near history due to salmonella or ecoli or something like that. Mostly this happens to conventional vegetables but it can happen with organic stuff too. I believe there was a scare over Amy's products not too long ago but it didn't turn into anything. Plant foods are not immune, and they are sometimes sprayed with pesticides etc. But you could drive yourself insane worrying about that stuff. It is impossible to avoid every possible contaminent. Last year, without warning, the city flew over my neighborhood and sprayed some chemical to control the mosquito population. Down it came right into my garden. Sighs...

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#19 Old 05-28-2015, 07:15 AM
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Hi Sonny

I'm a vegetarian for health reasons. I've seen some of the documentaries but most of these have focussed on the environmental impact of factory farming rather than the ethical animal rights angle. Personally it's my health that keeps me eating this way. But it's my environmental concerns that keeps me looking for non animal based products. I also don't particularly feel an urge to involve myself in the Animal Rights aspect of veg*ism.

Generally I don't give much of an explanation for why - I just say 'I don't eat meat.' If pressed for an explanation I'll say it's for health reasons (usually that's enough).

S
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#20 Old 05-28-2015, 03:42 PM
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I kinda hate the line "if slaughterhouses had glass walls we'd all be veg...", because it really isn't true. I hear too often from those who have seen meet your meat, AND earthlings. They just wish it wasn't that way, but not enough to stop eating it, or pay more for more humane methods. It is that much of a disconnect.
I think it's like how those who've grown up with abuse are that much more likely to become abusers.

Anyway, I think "why would I eat animals?" is a far better question, and much harder to answer. Only good answer is 'I like it and I don't care"
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#21 Old 05-28-2015, 04:45 PM
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Why the fear of feeling/displaying compassion and sensitivity? These are GOOD qualities and having them does not make you weak.

When I was much younger I used to think the same way (I'm not saying this mindset is characteristic of young people in general, just that I was that way in my high school and early college years). I grew up in a rough school and was conditioned to walk around showing a lot of false bravado, "I'm so tough and bad and don't mess with me." If I acted like I gave a crap about anyone then I was weak. That sort of thing. Eventually I got out in a wider world of people and my mindset shifted. My 43 year old self is much "softer" and quite happier for it. Being callous toward the feelings of others and unable to show empathy for others is not strong, in my view. It shows fear of connecting with others, fear of crumbling to pieces because of experiencing an actual emotion. The truly strong and heroic people are those who can be moved by the suffering of others to the point that they care and act on their concern. Those who bravely stick up for those who defenseless and take care others who need their help. This world needs more 'weaklings' like this.
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#22 Old 05-28-2015, 08:14 PM
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I just need more of a reason to do this because I feel that I'll just slip back into my omnivore ways if I don't have a reason.
For me it's pretty easy. My reason is I don't want to cause suffering if I don't need to. For a few months after I stopped eating meat I tried to find some cheese to use for my pizza that came from an ethical source. However this turned out to be something I couldn't do. I remember an episode of DS9 that has really stuck in my mind because I saw it at this time, and in particular a quote from something sisko said...

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You're damned right you should've checked. You fired at something you hadn't identified. You made a military decision to protect your ship and crew, but you're a Starfleet officer, Worf. We don't put civilians at risk or even potentially at risk to save ourselves. Sometimes that means we lose the battle and sometimes our lives. But if you can't make that choice, then you can't wear that uniform.
To me this easily translated to animals, and at that point I realized that even the chance of causing suffering was something I was not okay with. For me, not hurting others, including animals, is the right thing to do and that's all the reason I need.
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#23 Old 05-29-2015, 09:05 AM
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i know what you mean siva. but i bet most of them worked in that area and made money out of it people like many a lot. if some one from a town was handed the gun or a outing knife i dont think they could do it.
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#24 Old 05-29-2015, 09:30 AM
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sorry I'm not trying to guilt trip you. and i know vegys have a rep for that, but what i mean is.
I know a guy he bought two pigs ''old breeds big hairy fellas'' He had them a few years when they were ready to eat he had gotten attached to them. but he didn't want to seem soft, and he did buy them for food, After a couple of months thinking about it, He went out one morning filled there troff with nice food, they turned there back on him, And he was left there thinking dose he really like bacon that much, in the end he couldn't kill them, but got some one else to kill one of them, But when they were all frozen up he couldn't eat any of it.
So my point was no documentary, is going to turn you off meat. paul mcCartney said if the slaughter house had glass walls every one would be vegetarian. and and i agree the world is a very nasty place. but if you limit the cruelty you cause at least you can say i did my best.


i know this all sound very preachy. but really on less you experience some thing like that your self its hard to have conviction.
that one day changed that guys whole out look on life.
its not like hunting down a wild deer that could easily stick a antler thru. you when you feed an animal, they see you as the boss there friend some one that looks after them.
Yeah I mean I wouldn't kill one of my cats and eat them even if I was starving, when you own a pet and when you eat an animal I feel it's a different thing.

I actually watched a documentary about a guy who was showing a presentation about being vegan and he was like "honey is basically bee vomit and that's GROSS to eat, why would anything or anyone eat vomit' and he just seemed really naive (baby birds eat mummy bird vomit...) and it was more of a "well I think this is gross so you should" and this is kind of why I've been struggling. Other people think something is awful and tragic and I feel I should too!
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#25 Old 05-29-2015, 09:40 AM
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For what it's worth I went out for dinner with a friend of mine who is a vet after I watched Earthlings. I asked her what she knew about factory farming and it turns out as part of her training she spent time in factory farms and slaughter houses in both Canada and the United States. She says that what she saw there was horrifying and that documentaries like Earthlings and Meet your Meat are in fact accurate portrayals of the system.

Oddly enough she's still an omnivore. She told me she is comfortable with her disconnect and isn't looking to change at this time.
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My husband worked on a large dairy farm many years ago before we met. He witnessed terrible things (separation of calves from mothers, still born calves etc). And he too is still an omnivore, though he won't kill bugs or flies now, defends wild animals from hunting, and eats vegetarian at home. Go figure..

I personally witnessed the inside of a turkey warehouse

I would suggest visiting a farm sanctuary and learning about the individual rescued farm animals. Or find a factory farm and get a good look at it if you aren't too far from one. Sometimes seeing that stuff with your own eyes means more than a documentary.
Yeah of course, I just feel very disconnected to the ethical side. I do feel sad when watching documentaries such as Earthlings but there's this voice in the back of my head saying "don't be so soft and child-like, this is how the world is".

I'm still a transitioning vegetarian (I still eat meat at home for various reasons, I don't eat eggs and have minimal milk, when out of the house I eat veggie, when I move out to go to university I will be 100% veggie and possibly onto rice/almond milk as well), I always move snails off paths, bees too, and I'm doing what I can to help any creature. Visiting an actual farm might help though, there's none that close in my area but I have free train travel so I could go on a little day trip somewhere!
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#26 Old 05-29-2015, 09:50 AM
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Hi Sonny

I'm a vegetarian for health reasons. I've seen some of the documentaries but most of these have focussed on the environmental impact of factory farming rather than the ethical animal rights angle. Personally it's my health that keeps me eating this way. But it's my environmental concerns that keeps me looking for non animal based products. I also don't particularly feel an urge to involve myself in the Animal Rights aspect of veg*ism.

Generally I don't give much of an explanation for why - I just say 'I don't eat meat.' If pressed for an explanation I'll say it's for health reasons (usually that's enough).

S
That's me exactly, my family meat consumption is very high and I just want to cut meat out of my diet altogether because of fears of illness. I feel very distant to the rest of the community as most of them are in it for ethical reasons and although I do believe in animal ethics I just feel that it's not a huge concern to me and I just disconnect from the whole ethics arguement.

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I kinda hate the line "if slaughterhouses had glass walls we'd all be veg...", because it really isn't true. I hear too often from those who have seen meet your meat, AND earthlings. They just wish it wasn't that way, but not enough to stop eating it, or pay more for more humane methods. It is that much of a disconnect.
I think it's like how those who've grown up with abuse are that much more likely to become abusers.

Anyway, I think "why would I eat animals?" is a far better question, and much harder to answer. Only good answer is 'I like it and I don't care"
I know, even after watching slaughterhouse documentries I don't really feel that my avoidance of meat alone will help the animals. The only thing that has kind of had an effect on me was a KFC documentary in the UK a few months back but even so it's just made me not want to eat in KFC. Even though your abusers quote is quite extreme I completely understand your point, people who've always experienced something means it'll become normal in their lives.

My answer to the question "why would I eat animals?" is probably because I've also found it hard to be vegetarian in the world. Even when avoiding meat products, I've often bought drinks and sweets and then discovered they have geletine or other product in. I've had to cut out a lot of my favourite sweets (I could cut out actual meat completely but it's the stuff added in sweet things that gets me!) but I think it's a process of me learning what I can and can't have.
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#27 Old 05-29-2015, 09:59 AM
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Why the fear of feeling/displaying compassion and sensitivity? These are GOOD qualities and having them does not make you weak.

When I was much younger I used to think the same way (I'm not saying this mindset is characteristic of young people in general, just that I was that way in my high school and early college years). I grew up in a rough school and was conditioned to walk around showing a lot of false bravado, "I'm so tough and bad and don't mess with me." If I acted like I gave a crap about anyone then I was weak. That sort of thing. Eventually I got out in a wider world of people and my mindset shifted. My 43 year old self is much "softer" and quite happier for it. Being callous toward the feelings of others and unable to show empathy for others is not strong, in my view. It shows fear of connecting with others, fear of crumbling to pieces because of experiencing an actual emotion. The truly strong and heroic people are those who can be moved by the suffering of others to the point that they care and act on their concern. Those who bravely stick up for those who defenseless and take care others who need their help. This world needs more 'weaklings' like this.
I totally understand, I used to be bullied horrifically in high school but as soon as I developed an attitude and started hanging round certain people the bullying stopped. I don't take anything from anyone and my debating skills are pretty good since I do a lot of research to support causes I believe in.
In the last 2 years I've done a lot of community action projects, volunteering, and general helping out around college. Quite a few people have looked down on me saying "why volunteer if you're not getting paid" and "volunteering won't get you anywhere" but I guess the satisfaction I feel in me has really helped me out in the long run. Helping animals is my next step and I just want to become a more ethical person, someone that people can turn to. As well as doing this for my health I want to be sure I'm doing it to the ones most affected - the animals in this horrific industry.

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For me it's pretty easy. My reason is I don't want to cause suffering if I don't need to. For a few months after I stopped eating meat I tried to find some cheese to use for my pizza that came from an ethical source. However this turned out to be something I couldn't do. I remember an episode of DS9 that has really stuck in my mind because I saw it at this time, and in particular a quote from something sisko said..

To me this easily translated to animals, and at that point I realized that even the chance of causing suffering was something I was not okay with. For me, not hurting others, including animals, is the right thing to do and that's all the reason I need.
Of course, I mean when I buy meat I don't know where it is coming from, either a really bad slaughterhouse or one of the 'best' slaughterhouses in the country and I wouldn't want to take that risk. I could probably give up milk, eggs (they taste gross to me anyway), and I only have cheese on my pizza but when I ordered a vegan pizza in my local italian restaurant (still an omnivore then but just wanted to try it - italian sun-dried tomato and basil and it was all traditional) it was the BEST thing I'd ever tasted, so juicy and crispy, and I thought "no animal harm has gone into this and it's still amazing" which has made me reconsider my dairy consumption too!
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#28 Old 05-29-2015, 10:31 AM
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to say honey is bee vomit is kind of silly. thats not to say farmed honey is ethical perfect to eat, seeing that they take all the honey and leave sugar in stead.
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#29 Old 05-30-2015, 08:26 AM
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Yeah of course, I just feel very disconnected to the ethical side. I do feel sad when watching documentaries such as Earthlings but there's this voice in the back of my head saying "don't be so soft and child-like, this is how the world is".
But the world doesn't have to be like that.

Do you feel the same way about child labor? Slavery? There are a lot of ****ty things about the way the world works, but that doesn't mean that we have to be complacent and accept things as they are. "Be the change you wish to see in the world" and all that.

"you know, nowhere in the bible does it say that jesus was not a raptor"


www.animal-adoptions.org

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#30 Old 05-31-2015, 02:55 AM
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Yes of course, there's no point lying about it!

"if you can't stomach the thoughts of a pig being born in captivity, torn away from his mother, fattened up and then put in a cue, watching his friends get an iron bar smashed in there faces, knowing he's next "
- I'd rather you skip the guilt-tripping though, I see vegetarianism in a diet perspective and not ethically.

I've never petted a cow, never raised chickens. However, I don't think it's a lack of empathy but an understanding of how things are done. I don't want to be seen as 'soft' or 'sensitive', I mean animals are killed and eaten for meat and I know and accept that. The whole "if we keep dogs as pets why don't we eat dogs" but some cultures eat dogs, some eat cats, some eat rabbit. I think when I start saying "well I'd eat this animal but eating THIS animal is GROSS, it kind of feels disrespectful of other cultures to me. I've just been brought up in this sort of household and I need more of a ground for my vegetarianism.
You've already written a lot of stuff about your reasons, so I hope this isn't going over old ground for you.


But this stuck out to me because, well, it's one of the reasons I didn't consider vegetarianism for a really long time. Put it down to a whole range of things, growing up on a farm, being told to be 'stronger' than the boys (because you don't succeed any other way), working in a male dominated industry where you have to 'be one of the boys' or suffer the consequences. Meat= power.

My love of meat was one of the things that made me 'strong', in my mind. Look at me, not being sensitive because sensitivity is for wimps!

Right?

But here's the thing, that idea that it's 'wimpy' to go veg (especially going veg for the animals), is a lie. It takes a lot more strength for me to be a vegetarian in a carnist world than it ever took for me to eat animals. I have to say no to all types of meals. I have to flout society's rules every single day and I think that's an incredibly powerful thing to do. I have to stand up against loved ones, family members and friends and tell them I'm not going to do the thing they're doing.

All people are sensitive. Some are more sensitive to their own needs, than the needs of others....And I know which ones I find most attractive. I know which ones I view as stronger.

And actually, being veg is seen as strong by loads of people. I get told a lot "Oh, you're so good! I could never do that!". People think it's something 'impossible' to do. So really, by going veg, you're not going to have to worry about people perceiving you as weak.

I just wanted to let you know that.

Good luck.
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