My son wants me to take him fishing - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 06-12-2013, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 4everaspirit View Post


I must say that was the most interesting and somewhat sad thing I have read about you Capstan. o.o


Don't be sad for me. I got over it, am retired now, and have my own place! thumbsup.gif

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#32 Old 06-13-2013, 03:22 AM
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Perhaps you could teach him bushcraft techniques such as fishing using a (humane) fish basket/trap.  This means you could release the fish rather than kill it, whilst teaching him proper survival skills but no death at the end of it.


If you actually want him to 'catch it, kill it, eat it' then I'd advise letting someone else take him.  I don't think you should confuse your son by saying you don't agree with killing animals and then facilitating that very thing.  But that's just my personal opinion.

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#33 Old 06-13-2013, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 4everaspirit View Post

I think true thieves would disagree. I think you know that too. True thieves learn all the tricks and techniques to deceive you. In a disaster world where resources are scarce, and even now, people might indeed need to know how effectively steal to survive. These people may not know a survival skill of how to grow, fish, or gather food well, but if they have another skill of effectively deceiving people that keeps them alive......How is it not a "skill??"  And of course I'm not advocating it, just like I'm not advocating fishing.

It might also be a skill to know how to capture and slaughter now wild chickens to feed yourself in your disaster world. Does that mean you should have your kid capture and slaughter a chicken so they are prepared? NO. No beings should have to die for someone's idea of need for a skill in case sh*t hitting the fan does happen.

I've worked with boyscouts with my family and I hated when they would go fishing. They wouldn't slaughter any other animal as a "skill" because of course too many people would complain, and I'm sure even many kids themselves would, but I guess when you don't see fish as sentient beings, therein lies the problem.

OK first of all....why are you arguing with me about killing animals? I never said I was going to kill animals to teach my son anything. I said I would send him to my stepbrother who hunts extra animals being killed. And second of I don't consider theft a "skill". If you have to crack safes yeah. But not in general. It simply takes a little intelligence, some balls, and depending on the situation, some disconnect from the people you may hurt in the process. So no, I won't "teach" my son to steal but when he's older I will teach him to defend himself and what's his. And I'd like to think if I teach him well he won't ever need to steal.
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#34 Old 06-13-2013, 05:32 AM
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I'm sure there are many skills to stealing, like pickpocketing.....and if society collapsed would it even be a crime?

I think it is an apt analogy.

After all killing an animal would steal its very life.

ETA: and also, what about cracking safes? That would be a skill, and people learn it as a hobby. Richard Feynman learnt it as a hobby, not to confuse the issue. grin.gif

That's the problem with criminals, a lot of them ARE skilled, at what they do.
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#35 Old 06-13-2013, 05:25 PM
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I've just found this thread and, it seems to me, perhaps totally unfairly, that you want 'the best of both worlds' - and who wouldn't! Perhaps that's putting it too baldly and perhaps this is simple projection on my part. But this is what I've been thinking: Becoming a vegetarian in an omnivore family and/or social group isn't quite as easy for most people as some others have found it. That people like yourself manage to be vegetarian after so many years as an omni and want to continue to be vegetarian is, I think most would agree, commendable. Likewise, it is commendable some such people as yourself should want to give their children the best experiences they can remember from their own childhood as well as to use such experiences as lessons for an unknown future in an uncertain world. To be able to do that would indeed to have the 'best of both worlds - especially since apocalyptic scenarios often show 'nature red in tooth and claw' (with apologies to the poet) and us in the midst of it. 


However (and here comes the big But), what my hypothetical vegetarians (whom you might decide resemble you a little) would also be teaching their children is that values can be put on an taken off as easily as, say, a pair of rubber boots. I'd worry about that, myself. I have reason to. We all make mistakes, and the error actually committed sticks as a lesson for the young, in my experience, far longer and certainly more vividly than an error avoided through a request denied.


That said :) perhaps one also ought to consider the wishes of these hypothetical vegetarians who are somewhat, perhaps, like yourself. Perhaps they might miss fishing more than they think.


It is of course as others have said your choice alone. But please don't be bullied or guilted by a boy of seven - there are others to attempt that - and enough chances for him to do so when he grows up, and I doubt it'll be over not letting him kill an animal :)  Best luck!

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#36 Old 06-14-2013, 05:25 AM
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riverrun, thanks for that - certainly worthy of respect and nice to see a thoughtful response.


I certainly feel that my children seeing that their dad has been vegetarian for their entire lives creates a more meaningful impact than any amount of preaching. I also feel that it is unfair for me to impose my values on my children without affording the opportunity to learn for themselves when that opportunity is available (within reason of course). This comes from the fact that I was omni for 28 year and I don't hate myself for that nor do I wish it were any different - I turned veg when it was right for me, not for anyone else. And I continue to be veg for me and me alone.


Thank you all for your responses (even the zombie apocalypse tangents). It's nice to be able to talk to people about this, and I am refreshed that there was conversation and not a one-sided viewpoint.

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#37 Old 06-14-2013, 10:36 AM
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So you have decided :) Good. Whatever your decision, it will be right for you and possibly even for your son. (With apologies to fellow veg*ns, I'm not commenting on the effect on the fish; that should be obvious to us all, eh?) Have the best possible time, both of you.


Best, Riverrun (as I see there's indeed another 'River' here)

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#38 Old 06-14-2013, 10:44 AM
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Have a wonderful time Siv! smiley.gif we are all friends here! IMHO if we were all the same what a boring world it would be Lol its our differences that make it interesting. 0.-
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#39 Old 06-14-2013, 11:42 AM
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Personally, I think it would be very confusing for a 7-year old to see his vegetarian father killing fish. Are you going to eat them, too? Unless you've never explained to him why you're vegetarian, or you are vegetarian for health reasons only, I think he will think you are a hypocrite.
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#40 Old 06-14-2013, 12:48 PM
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I live by a lake and people do fish there .... along with the fish ducks share the lake .... last year a duck had a hook stuck in its foot and a neighbor and I called an animal rescue to remove it (poor duck sad.gif ) .... I just felt I had to mention it .
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#41 Old 06-14-2013, 01:20 PM
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