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#1 Old 04-07-2013, 07:46 AM
 
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What do you think about people who claim they are vegetarians but eat meat once in a while? I've seen this a lot with overweight people who claim to be vegetarians and have only been doing it for a month or so, but during the weekend they eat hamburgers and other fast foods that have meat in them, but they are back being vegetarians on Monday. Would you call them out on it? I think it's pretty unfair that I've done it over 10 years and these people are telling everyone they are vegetarians and only been doing it for a week or month, then go back to eating meat.

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#2 Old 04-07-2013, 11:29 AM
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Most people simply dont take diet very seriously.

And many lie for the sake of ego.

 

Dont worry about the foolishness of others.

If you figure your doing good just be content in that and let others attend to their own thing.

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#3 Old 04-07-2013, 12:58 PM
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I don't like faketarians.

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My usual answer: I have never heard a convincing reason to eat meat.
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#4 Old 04-07-2013, 04:46 PM
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Hell to the yes, I call them out on it!

Every time they get it wrong, it increases the chances of someone serving me the wrong food. I spent a good 2 months, on and off, telling my mother that I would not be eating fish.

 

"But I knew vegetarians in the 70's....They ate fish"

 

"Then you didn't know vegetarians"

When you can barely get the concept of 'no creatures' through people's heads, it makes it damn near impossible to explain things like not eating gelatine or tallow. So if someone wants to announce themselves as a vegetarian, that's great, but they had better be following the rules or somebody gonna get a hurt real bad.

On the upside, they obviously think being a 'vegetarian' is a good thing to be. That's half the battle, now we just need them to be one :P
 

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#5 Old 04-07-2013, 05:23 PM
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They know the label is a cool one but they'd rather not actually do the real work to be a REAL part of it. I dislike them. They weaken the meaning of vegetarian and they make other vegetarians look like hypocrites and there comes a time where others start wondering what types of meat we are okay with eat....'little bacon bits here and there...' oh lordy lordy......


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#6 Old 04-07-2013, 10:14 PM
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I prefer them to people who eat meat regularly. They contribute less to animal slaughter by not eating meat the majority of the time. So they used a word wrong... okay, it is annoying yes, but let's not overblow it. 

 

Vegans and vegetarians are for the most part not seen as "cool", in my experience. I think we are disliked or regarded neutrally for what we are more often than being liked for it. I don't avoid animal products for the priviledge of being able to call myself a vegan and being cool, so I'm not really seeing the whole unfairness angle of this. The only problem, as I see it, is that they are not communicating clearly and thus potentially creating confusion. 

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#7 Old 04-07-2013, 11:31 PM
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I prefer them to people who eat meat regularly. They contribute less to animal slaughter by not eating meat the majority of the time. So they used a word wrong... okay, it is annoying yes, but let's not overblow it. 

 

Vegans and vegetarians are for the most part not seen as "cool", in my experience. I think we are disliked or regarded neutrally for what we are more often than being liked for it. I don't avoid animal products for the priviledge of being able to call myself a vegan and being cool, so I'm not really seeing the whole unfairness angle of this. The only problem, as I see it, is that they are not communicating clearly and thus potentially creating confusion. 

 



Well, I don't feed them to wolves or anything like that.... Much as I may get the urge, but where am I going to find wolves at a convenient hour? I'm not, because wolves are really hard to get hold of. They never have their mobile phones on!

But I do try and point out where they've made their mistake and offer them the appropriate title. Usually- "So, you still eat animals, but less of the time? That's not vegetarianism, we don't eat meat any of the time. But, it's still awesome that you're cutting down! Let me know if you need any recipes, I know a great forum where people are always putting up vegan and vego links!"
If they choose not to take my positive approach, then we can get down into a screaming match and I win because I have a better source of protein :P It hardly ever happens.

 

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#8 Old 04-09-2013, 09:10 PM
 
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I always think of "vegetarian" or "vegan" almost like verbs, instead of noun. The reality is that we can all be doing better, since it is almost impossible not to be in some way part of another creatures death in one's lifestyle. 

 

If you think of being vegetarian it as a progression or a journey, then we all become each other's advisors and supporters. Ask questions and teach gently. If I run a mile and even walk a bit during that mile, and a marathoner scoffs at me saying I should not call myself a runner, then embarrassment and other emotions incline me to quit while encouraging and offering me tips, asking me what kind of shoes do I run in, etc. might inspire me to do better.

 

You say you are a vegetarian?  Go for it! That's great! Join the forums! Let's go out to eat! Try this recipe but be sure to use veggie broth or it isn't vegetarian. You can get it at this grocery store. Come on over for dinner! 

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#9 Old 04-12-2013, 12:22 PM
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Good points everyone.  I think it is okay to take a little pride in your restraint, whatever level of veg*nism you practice -- this society does not make it easy.  Jealousy from any direction is kind of silly, though.  Nevertheless, it would probably be for the best if we could just popularize terms like "semi-vegetarian" for clarity.

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#10 Old 04-12-2013, 12:36 PM
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If I come across a fake vegetarian, I take it to the appropriate authorities, and they destroy it. Fake vegetarians are flooding this country from Asia where they are usually made in sweatshops. Do not stand for this!
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#11 Old 04-12-2013, 01:16 PM
 
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I worked out of town for a while and got to know several people.  One said she was a vegetarian.  A group of us went to lunch one day and she was across the table from me with a chicken breast on her plate.  I said, "I though you were a vegetarian."  She said, "I am.  I eat fish and chicken but not meat."   ?????

 

Californian btw.  Thirty years ago.  Maybe they had their own definition.  I dunno.

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#12 Old 04-12-2013, 06:54 PM
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Yeah, 20-30 years ago lots of people seemingly thought fish were plants. The first adult that ever told me she was vegetarian did so while eating anchovies. Today she'd call herself vegan because she didnt eat dairy or eggs, lol.

Even harder imagining someone regarding a chicken as a plant. I have many plants and not one of them acts like a chicken.

Perhaps some people have just never seen a chicken? .... or a plant.

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#13 Old 04-13-2013, 12:42 AM
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I look at it as "at least they're trying."  There are people who eat fatty meats 3 meals a day and snacks, too.  If those people would cut out meat except on the weekends, their health would likely improve.  Also, for the AR folks, that's fewer cows and pigs slaughtered.  Isn't that a good thing?
 

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#14 Old 04-13-2013, 01:59 AM
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Also, for the AR folks, that's fewer cows and pigs slaughtered.  Isn't that a good thing?

 


It's not so good for the animal that does gets eaten by the "vegetarian" though, is it.

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#15 Old 04-13-2013, 02:50 AM
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I look at it as "at least they're trying."  There are people who eat fatty meats 3 meals a day and snacks, too.  If those people would cut out meat except on the weekends, their health would likely improve.  Also, for the AR folks, that's fewer cows and pigs slaughtered.  Isn't that a good thing?
 

 



Being a vegetarian or a vegan is a bit like using the Force. There is no try, there is only do.

Of course, people are right when they say we should be encouraging of anyone who cuts down on their meat and animal produce consumption. Let's face it, the world isn't going to go change overnight. The less harm, even if it is only a degree of less harm, that someone does with their diet, the better. But that doesn't mean we have to give away our labels, or water them down. If someone can't follow the most basic rule of 'no meat', then they don't deserve the label.


Imagine for a moment that we were all anti-slavery, it was making us fat, and lazy it wasn't nice to the people who were our slaves and we decided to stop owning slaves. Despite the fact it meant more work for us, despite the fact it went against a social convention, we stopped doing it. Now, someone comes along and says "I'm anti-slavery too....Except, on the weekends, when my slaves cater to my every whim".....Does that seem like a logical thing to accept?

 


We put up with a lot as vegetarians and vegans. How many of us have been abused and ridiculed by the people we love and care about because this is what we believe? I'm not saying we rise up and topple the Government (because I'm not ready for that part of the plan yet :P), we don't even have to yell at the people who use our labels inappropriately, but I do think we deserve to stand firm on this issue, or else what else are we standing for? We don't have to be militant, but we do need to be strong.

 

I also understand that semi-vegetarian is becoming a 'thing' these days, but I think there's already a name for people who eat vegetables and meat- Omnivores.

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#16 Old 04-13-2013, 03:23 AM
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I must admit, I can't understand how it's hard to quit eating meat.  I can understand hard for someone to get enough veggies in certain rural situations.  And even in urban environments where there are too few alternatives to corporate products, or limited transportation, I understand.  And so forth.  But finding it difficult to go without animal products when options are available... like for taste or whatever?  I don't get that.


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#17 Old 04-13-2013, 03:38 AM
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"oh, you are a vegetarian?  My sister is a vegetarian too.......but she still eats fish......"  I hear this one a lot.  I am tired of explaining that vegetarians don't eat fish!!!

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#18 Old 04-13-2013, 11:12 AM
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I must admit, I can't understand how it's hard to quit eating meat.

 

One of the biggest problems people give themselves is maintaining contradictory desires.

Like wanting good health and junk food, feeling sympathy for animals and wanting to eat them, etc.

It causes endless stress, both for them and the people around them.

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#19 Old 04-14-2013, 12:32 AM
 
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I still get the "but you do eat fish, right?" question from people who have known me for years! (I have never given anyone the impression that I do eat fish, btw). Somehow fish seems to count as a vegetable for many people. And the person who usually asks me this is a highly educated person with a lot of worldly knowledge. It seems to be a fairly common perception amongst people who are ignorant of veg*nism that fish and seafood are perfectly ok for veg*ns to eat. Often this misperception extends to chicken as well.

This perception pretty weird to say the least huh.gif However when you think about the sheer and massive ignorance of most people about food and where it comes from in general, it becomes easier to understand how seemingly intelligent people can harbour such misperceptions.

 

All we can do is keep reminding people that veg*ns don't eat ANY animals and that anyone who applies that label to themselves really shouldn't be consuming any flesh, whether its fish,bird or mammal in origin.


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#20 Old 04-14-2013, 02:24 AM
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One of the biggest problems people give themselves is maintaining contradictory desires.

Like wanting good health and junk food, feeling sympathy for animals and wanting to eat them, etc.

It causes endless stress, both for them and the people around them.

Okay, I know what you're talking about.  I have witnessed comparable thinking often in my life.  I always seem to forget that no trouble with commitment makes me unusual: .

 

I think the real question for this thread is whether someone who is told "You're not vegetarian if you eat meat on the weekends." is actually more likely to stop eating meat on weekends or to go back to eating it on weekdays, too.


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#21 Old 04-14-2013, 06:29 AM
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Most people simply dont take diet very seriously.

And many lie for the sake of ego.

 

Dont worry about the foolishness of others.

If you figure your doing good just be content in that and let others attend to their own thing.

This ^^ sums it up. Who cares what they do or label themselves?

Dilution of terms, and labels like vegan? Again, who cares? It isn't like most people know what vegans eat or how we live anyway. I won't ever be able to go into an omni restaurant and not have to be specific about my food preparation. I won't ever be able to say "veganize the Asian Chicken salad, please" and trust the results.
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#22 Old 04-14-2013, 12:06 PM
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Maybe someday, you will have more vegan restaurants to go into, however.  I don't think fake vegetarians will be starting any fake ones.  What counts is the good that we do.

 

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#23 Old 04-14-2013, 04:54 PM
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This ^^ sums it up. Who cares what they do or label themselves?

Dilution of terms, and labels like vegan? Again, who cares? It isn't like most people know what vegans eat or how we live anyway. I won't ever be able to go into an omni restaurant and not have to be specific about my food preparation. I won't ever be able to say "veganize the Asian Chicken salad, please" and trust the results.


Most people don't know what vegetarians eat or how they live either. You know why? Because of people who say they're vegetarian and then eat meat.

We won't get more people educated about what our terms mean, if we allow the terms to be diluted.
 

 

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Maybe someday, you will have more vegan restaurants to go into, however.  I don't think fake vegetarians will be starting any fake ones.  What counts is the good that we do.
 

Quote: "It is amazing how much you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit.

 

Not accepting someone mis-using the words 'vegan' or 'vegetarian' isn't necessarily about making sure they don't get credit. It's just pointing out a simple definition and when it should be applied. We don't need to get angry at them and if they're so delicate that they can't handle you gently saying "Well, veg*nism is 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. But you're off to a great start, you know, I have some yummy weekend recipes that are easy and delicious" that they're going to go on a bacon binge as a way of rebuttal, then just show them a picture of a dead pig, or if you're into the cute and fuzzy, show them a youtube of a cute piglet. That should put them off all ham sandwiches for LIFE!


What is the point in the good we do, what's the point in having the guts to say "No, I won't be eating that meat" if we don't have the guts to stand up for the words that define what we do? It's like letting a guy who yells out obscene things from his car 'occasionally' call himself a feminist. Hey, if we point out that, due to his actions, he can't call himself a feminist he might just start groping women at work!


But aside from all that, let's say we don't correct people who call themselves vegetarians but still eat meat. The meaning of the word will change and, hypothetically speaking, we'll see meat eaters on these boards in years to come. Everyone here okay with that? I'm guessing, no.
 

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#24 Old 04-14-2013, 05:46 PM
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Gently saying "Veg*nism is 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. But you're off to a great start, you know, I have some yummy weekend recipes that are easy and delicious" sounds like a great idea.  I doubt anyone will literally rebut such a statement by eating more meat spitefully.  I was only trying in a broad way to propose strategic thought.  For the record, I personally support your basic argument as I understand it, although I don't mind if you address me with points as a way to also broadly express yourself to everyone.  To be more accurate, what I suggest is still that people who eat some meats or eat meat sometimes, in spite of positive encouragement to go fully vegetarian, which I am totally in favor of, should be encouraged to call themselves "semi-vegetarian" for so long as that's all they really practice.  What I was thinking is probably counterproductive is flatly discounting semi-vegetarianism.  (In general; this is not to say specifically you have definitely done just that.)  We will continue to discourage use of such terms if neither veg*ns nor non-veg*ns have any respect for it.

 

I actually have tried the dead pig picture course before; and it has not always worked out just like I hoped.  Fortunately, we live in an era when assaulting women is illegal.  Not so with assaulting farm animals.  As a progressive, I don't want to risk our gains by overreaching.  Sometimes leading by example is the best that one can do.


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#25 Old 04-15-2013, 10:10 AM
 
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Labels! For the life of me, I can’t understand the issue.

I don’t get offended when someone tells me they’re part time veg*ns, or they say they are veg*ns and order meat in front of me. I just tell them something like «Me, I’m full time vegan.» (well, the French version of it)

It always leads to a discussion with them asking me how I can manage to do it, and it is always a pleasure to explain and help them understand how it can be done.

A woman I know is vegan 95% of the time, vegetarian 99% of the time. Should I be telling her she’s a “faketarian”? She lives a compassionate life and she’s an advocate for animal rights. Should I shun her in public because she had a taste of the Xmas turkey at her mom’s? Should I go and tell her “You’re not a vegan, you know, so stop using that word to describe yourself because you are diluting the label?”

As for the association with slavery, it would be better made if we said someone used to have many slaves, and freed them all, but one. For whatever reason, he will keep the one slave. It is abhorrent, but would spitting in his face convince him to free his last slave? Wouldn’t congratulate him on freeing the others and try to convince him to let go of the poor soul be more productive? I‘m sure to antagonize him would not help.

I get the same itch when I see some vegans criticize vegetarians. For them, vegetarianism wasn’t enough, but to go and question vegetarians for their ethics seems couterproductive.

I really think there would be a lot more veg*ns if there wasn’t so much bickering with people who haven’t fully embraced compassionate living, be it by being a part-time veg*n or by not being vegan.
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#26 Old 04-16-2013, 01:55 AM
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Labels! For the life of me, I can’t understand the issue.

I don’t get offended when someone tells me they’re part time veg*ns, or they say they are veg*ns and order meat in front of me. I just tell them something like «Me, I’m full time vegan.» (well, the French version of it)

It always leads to a discussion with them asking me how I can manage to do it, and it is always a pleasure to explain and help them understand how it can be done.

A woman I know is vegan 95% of the time, vegetarian 99% of the time. Should I be telling her she’s a “faketarian”? She lives a compassionate life and she’s an advocate for animal rights. Should I shun her in public because she had a taste of the Xmas turkey at her mom’s? Should I go and tell her “You’re not a vegan, you know, so stop using that word to describe yourself because you are diluting the label?”

As for the association with slavery, it would be better made if we said someone used to have many slaves, and freed them all, but one. For whatever reason, he will keep the one slave. It is abhorrent, but would spitting in his face convince him to free his last slave? Wouldn’t congratulate him on freeing the others and try to convince him to let go of the poor soul be more productive? I‘m sure to antagonize him would not help.

I get the same itch when I see some vegans criticize vegetarians. For them, vegetarianism wasn’t enough, but to go and question vegetarians for their ethics seems couterproductive.

I really think there would be a lot more veg*ns if there wasn’t so much bickering with people who haven’t fully embraced compassionate living, be it by being a part-time veg*n or by not being vegan.



On the point of slavery (and terms of veg*nism), I'm not saying you spit in the person's face, figuratively or otherwise. I'm merely saying, that I would tell that person that they can't be 'anti-slavery' and keep a slave, any slave, at any time.

As for the lady you know who is vegan 95% of the time.... To me, it's like if I said "I don't wear red ever! Except for the 5% of my time when I wear red".

It's not about shunning people, or making them feel bad, it's about using the right term and educating people as to what those terms mean. It's not about feeling 'better' than someone because you think you're morally superior.

If you're not concerned with diluting the meanings of words, then that's fine. But please, consider first what it is already beginning to mean in the wider community.

Example- I bought a shower wash that was Vegan and later discovered that the company that made it, had tested that product (or it's base ingredients) on animals.

 

Are you willing to have that happen in restaurants? With food labelling? At family dinners, because 'vegan' now means 'only a little bit of cheese'?

If that is so, and I think I've said it before, prepare to shut down the 'Stupid Things Omnivores Say' thread because it won't be stupid for them to ask us questions like "But you still eat fish, right?" or "But, a little bit of cheese won't hurt you" because that's what we allow when we allow the dilution of terms such as vegetarian or vegan.

I understand the desire to tread softly, to not put people off by being militant and it's not at all what I'm suggesting (though it seems to be what most people are reading into my comments). All I'm saying is that we should be able to point out someone's misuse of a word that is intrinsic to us communicating who we are, to the rest of society. But it's not just about us, it's about society understanding what we are to them. Half the problems I seem to encounter with people is that they don't know what they can and can't offer me to eat because they're getting mixed messages about what 'vegetarian' is.
 

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#27 Old 04-16-2013, 02:35 AM
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I think the battle over labels has already been lost. Words change their meaning over time according to popular usage, it's something that can't be defended against.

 

I really like the increased use of the term "plant based diet". Vegans obviously eat an *exclusively plant-based diet* but someone who eats a *predominantly plant-based diet* isn't implying any contradiction, or increasing any confusion if they have a piece of salmon once a month or whatever. I'd really like to see this term replace the popular and often inaccurate use of vegetarian and vegan, not because I'm interested in owning labels, but simply because it reduces confusion about what words like 'vegetarian' and 'vegan' actually mean.

 

On a similar note, I think the use of factually unambiguous terms like "dairy-free" "egg-free" "meat-free" on food products and services, are probably more practically useful than using terms like "suitable for vegetarians/vegans", which like it or not, outside the veggie community, have become through popular usage rather woolly in the minds of the wider population.


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#28 Old 04-16-2013, 05:41 AM
 
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Are you willing to have that happen in restaurants? With food labelling? At family dinners, because 'vegan' now means 'only a little bit of cheese'?

I understand the desire to tread softly, to not put people off by being militant and it's not at all what I'm suggesting (though it seems to be what most people are reading into my comments). All I'm saying is that we should be able to point out someone's misuse of a word that is intrinsic to us communicating who we are, to the rest of society. But it's not just about us, it's about society understanding what we are to them. Half the problems I seem to encounter with people is that they don't know what they can and can't offer me to eat because they're getting mixed messages about what 'vegetarian' is.

There. This is what I don’t like: Us and Them.

The lady I was talking about has lurked in some vegan forums, and because of things like this, she diesn’t feel she “belongs” in the vegan community. She is an advocate for veganism, she talks on radio shows about how it is cruel to eat animal products, but she told me she feels she doesn’t belong to the vegan community, because she feels judged for her rare slides. If half the population would be just half as vegan as she is, I can’t even calculate the damage it would do to the meat industry! But no, she “wears red” once in a while. So she can’t say she’s a vegan. Now she’s saying she has adopted a “mostly vegan lifestyle”. But that’s still unacceptable to some. She wouldn’t even be allowed to post here!

As for labels in products, family dinners, restaurants and the like, I go at them like I was an allergic person: I read the labels or I ask what’s in my food. And until I can find a planet where everyone is vegan, that is what I’ll do.


'IckenNoodleSoup: I like your idea of “plant-based” diet (and lifestyle).

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#29 Old 04-16-2013, 05:59 AM
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I take a different view. Being a vegetarian isn't a contest. And, there is no vegetarian police. I say do your own thing and don't worry about anyone else. What is there to gain by calling someone out? It just adds to the perception of vegetarians being militant and overbearing. 

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#30 Old 04-16-2013, 08:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiling View Post

I take a different view. Being a vegetarian isn't a contest. And, there is no vegetarian police. I say do your own thing and don't worry about anyone else. What is there to gain by calling someone out? It just adds to the perception of vegetarians being militant and overbearing. 

Wise words applicable to so many things in life.

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