Another pro-low-carb (anti-vegetarian?) article... - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 02-14-2013, 05:29 AM
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A friend shared this link http://authoritynutrition.com/11-biggest-lies-of-mainstream-nutrition/ on facebook. What do you think? 

 

Obviously, it promotes a low-carb diet with lots of animal products and implies that vegetarian, especially vegan diet, is unhealthy. And it gives references to other sources and studies proving it (I haven't really read into it yet, so I don't know how reliable those sources are).

 

I used to be a member on a low-carb forum before I went veggie, so I know this mindset. I have to say that a lot of the things that the low-carb community is claiming seem to be rather true. For example, I remember that a lot of members were able to actually lover their cholesterol levels by following a low-carb diet while eating a lot of saturated fats and foods that were obviously very high in cholesterol. And I do remember reading a lot of recent articles stating that the connection between heart disease and saturated fats are not that straight-forward. Also the things about grains. I don't think they are bad for you per se, but the quantities promoted by the infamous food pyramid seem to be ridiculous. I also remember that many new low-carbers always pointed out that they'd never felt better or had more energy etc. then after they went low-carb. Funny, that this is also what a lot of new veggies claim, too. 

 

I don't know.... I'm not vegetarian for health reasons, I'm in it for the animals,I would probably stay veg even if it was proven that this is not the healthiest diet, but still... 

 

I don't know. Any thoughts? Any reliable sources straight-forward contradicting the article?

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#2 Old 02-14-2013, 05:38 AM
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Also, important thing that I need to add: low-carbers believe that eating foods high in fats and protein is safe ONLY if combined with a low-carb intake, so examples of high-obesity high heart-disease rates among the general nonlow-carb population who eat a lot of fatty foods combined with lots of refined starched and sugars isn't necessarily proving them wrong,

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#3 Old 02-14-2013, 05:38 AM
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Here is a very large and interesting study proving how whole grains help our cardiovascular system.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23355358/
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#4 Old 02-14-2013, 05:54 AM
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Per the med student claims:
1. Eggs are good for you.
The Western researchers studied 1,231 patients, using ultrasound to measure the plaque build-up on the inside walls of their arteries. Most heart attacks and strokes are caused when the built-up plaque ruptures.

Patients in the study filled out questionnaires about their lifestyle and medications, including their consumption of egg yolks and cigarettes.While the build-up of plaque was a straight-line increase for people after age 40, it rose exponentially for smokers and regular egg-yolk eaters.

Researchers also found people eating three or more egg yolks a week had significantly more plaque on their artery walls than those eating two or fewer yolks a week.Eating yolks triggered plaque build-up at two thirds the rate for people who are smokers."In the long haul, eggs are not OK for most Canadians," Spence said.The research was published online Monday in the international journal Atherosclerosis.
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#5 Old 02-14-2013, 06:05 AM
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http://www.bupa.co.uk/individuals/health-information/directory/b/colonic-cancer

Quote:

Your risk of bowel cancer increases if you have:

  • a diet that is low in fibre, fruit and vegetables and high in red and processed meats

 

There is evidence that taking the following steps can help to reduce your risk of getting bowel cancer.

  • Eat five or more portions of fruit and vegetables every day.
  • Cut down on the amount of processed meat and red meat you eat.
  • Eat foods high in fibre such as wholegrain bread, cereals and pasta.

http://www.bupa.co.uk/individuals/health-information/directory/c/carbohydrates

Quote:
  • Carbohydrates seem to have been given a bad reputation in recent years. Say the word ‘carbs’ and for many people, stodgy food and weight gain spring to mind. But in reality, your body wouldn’t be able to function without carbohydrates.
  • Carbohydrates are your body’s main source of energy. You use them as fuel, not only to help you walk or run, but also to keep your heart, lungs and other vital organs working properly.
  • When you eat any type of carbohydrate, your digestive system will break it down into simple sugars, such as glucose – the main form of fuel for your body. Glucose is then circulated in your blood to every cell in your body.
  • If you don’t have enough carbohydrate in your diet, your body will start to break down fat and then protein to get the glucose it needs. Protein is important for your body to be able to grow and repair itself, so using it as an energy source means there will be little left to carry out these vital functions. If you eat enough carbohydrate, you can prevent this.
  • There has been much misconception in recent times that carbohydrates are fattening. Of course, as with many things, it’s not good to have too much. If you eat more carbohydrate than your body can burn off as energy, your body’s glucose stores will become saturated and the excess will be converted to fat. In other words, you will start to put on weight. But carbohydrates are an essential part of a healthy diet. The key thing is to pick the right type of carbohydrates as some types are healthier than others.
  • In general, the best starchy carbohydrates to go for are wholegrain foods – including wholegrain varieties of breads, pasta and cereal. Wholegrains contain a host of important nutrients that are thought to reduce your risk of heart disease and bowel cancer. When grains are processed (or ‘refined’) to make them look whiter, the part of the grain that contains fibre and many useful nutrients is removed. This means that white bread, pasta and cereals aren’t as beneficial to your health.
  • Wholegrains are also more likely to keep you feeling fuller for longer – as they generally take longer to digest than foods that have been processed and contain more fibre. This can help to control your appetite and help you to maintain a healthy weight.
  • It’s thought that at least half the energy in your diet should come from carbohydrates. Many people are already eating enough, but it’s often the wrong type – with too much coming from sugary or refined products and not enough from wholegrain, starchy foods. Starchy foods should make up about a third of your diet. The easiest way to do this it to try to include some at every meal – and opt for wholegrains when possible.
  • Although it’s best to limit the sugar in your diet, this doesn’t mean cutting out fruit. The natural sugars in fruit are not as bad for your teeth as those in sugary foods and drinks, as they are held inside the cells of the fruit and only released when you chew the fruit, or if the fruit is juiced or blended as in fruit juices and smoothies. If you drink these, try to stick to one a day and drink them with a meal to reduce your risk of tooth decay.
  • Aim to increase the carbohydrate in your meals and reduce the amount of fat or protein – you could replace meat in casseroles, stews and curries with beans or lentils for a carbohydrate-rich, low-fat meal.

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#6 Old 02-14-2013, 06:08 AM
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#7 Old 02-14-2013, 06:45 AM
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In terms of fresh veggies and fruits: most low-carber believe its important to eat a lot of fresh veggies and a smaller amount of fruits. 

 

The quote about carbohydrates doesn't exactly prove anything, unfortunately. Yes, carbohydrates are the easiest source of energy for the body, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the healthiest one. And technically, out of three energy sources, they are the ones that are not essential. The body is capable of producing enough glucose from protein (and if you cut on carbs, the percentage of protein in your diet increases, so the body will use the protein from food sources to produce glucose, not the muscle or organ tissue). The body can use both fat and protein as a source of energy. Also technically speaking, brain is the only organ that requires glucose to function normally, other organs can switch to function on ketones (by-products of fat break down). And some organs, like heart or kidney actually prefer ketones if both are available. And well, not all low-carbers claim that you need to cut off ALL carbs from your diet. Some would eat lots of veggies, fruits, nuts and even whole grains in small amounts, all of which have a decent amount of carbohydrates. 

 

Quote:
It’s thought that at least half the energy in your diet should come from carbohydrates. 


I'm interested to here what this claim is based on. Why should I eat this amount of carbohydrates and what would happen if I wouldn't? I know that not eating enough of certain fats and proteins is not only unhealthy, but may also potentially life-threatening, whereas getting little carbs would only make body switch to other sources of energy and produce a needed amount of glucose out of proteins. I've also heard that some nutritional organization states that we need to consume only 5% of protein. Again, what is this information based on?  

 

Also, again, most of the articles/studies that you're providing were made on people who consumed high-fat foods WHILE also consuming a lot of carbs. Are there any studies made on people who consumed a lot of fats and protein, along with fresh vegetables while keeping their carbohydrates low?

 

NOTE: I want to make clear that I'm not supporting a low-carb diet, primarily because I think that it's unethical. But the arguments I'm giving are the ones that I myself heard many times before and couldn't say anything against it. 

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#8 Old 02-14-2013, 07:16 AM
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How about the egg yolk link I posted? Are the paleos going to say it is because the egg eaters also ate sugar and refined carbs?

The studies from the OP article by the med student do not really support the points he makes, so you may want to read his studies and break them down before believing a facebook article.
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#9 Old 02-14-2013, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longstocking
I'm interested to here what this claim is based on. Why should I eat this amount of carbohydrates and what would happen if I wouldn't? I know that not eating enough of certain fats and proteins is not only unhealthy, but may also potentially life-threatening, whereas getting little carbs would only make body switch to other sources of energy and produce a needed amount of glucose out of proteins. I've also heard that some nutritional organization states that we need to consume only 5% of protein. Again, what is this information based on?


For the first link:

  • Colorectal cancer. Map of Medicine. www.mapofmedicine.com, published 21 July 2011
  • NHS BCSP home page. NHS Bowel Cancer Screening Programme. www.cancerscreening.nhs.uk, accessed 2 November 2011
  • Bowel cancer (colorectal cancer). CancerHelp UK (Cancer Research UK). http://.cancerhelp.cancerresearchuk.org, published 16 December 2011
  • Colonoscopy. eMedicine. www.emedicine.medscape.com, published 16 May 2011
  • Colon and rectal cancers. Macmillan Cancer Support. www.macmillan.org.uk, accessed 2 November 2011
  • Colorectal cancer treatment. BMJ Clinical Evidence. www.clinicalevidence.bmj.com, published 27 April 2010
  • What is bowel cancer? Beating Bowel Cancer. www.beatingbowelcancer.org, published 21 February 2011
  • Cassidy J, Bissett D, Spence R, et al. Oxford handbook of oncology. 3rd ed. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2010:313–24
  • Start active, stay active: a report on physical activity from the four home countries’ Chief Medical Officers. Department of Health. www.dh.gov.uk, published 2011
  • Consensus vitamin D position statement. British Association of Dermatologists CRU, Diabetes UK, the Multiple Sclerosis Society, the National Heart Forum, the National Osteoporosis Society and the Primary Care Dermatology Society, December 2010
  • Colorectal cancer. American Cancer Society. www.cancer.org, published 3 February 2011
  • Bowel cancer and IBD. National Association for Colitis and Crohn's disease (NACC). www.nacc.org.uk, published April 2010
  • Weingarten M, Zalmanovici TA, Yaphe J. Dietary calcium supplementation for preventing colorectal cancer and adenomatous polyps. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 2010, Issue 1. doi:10.1002/14651858.CD003548.pub4
  • Calcium. Office of Dietary Supplements. www.ods.od.nih.gov, published 31 August 2011
  • Department of Health. Dietary reference values for food energy and nutrients for the United Kingdom. London: HMSO, 1991
  • What is a stoma? Ostomy Lifestyle. www.ostomylifestyle.org, accessed 7 November 2011
  • Bowel diversion surgeries: ileostomy, colostomy, ileonanal reservoir, and continent ileostomy. National Digestive Diseases Information Clearinghouse (NDDIC). www.digestive.niddk.nih.gov, published February 2009
  • What is an ostomy? United Ostomy Associations of America (UOAA). www.ostomy.org, accessed 7 November 2011

 

For the second link:

  • Carbohydrate. British Nutrition Foundation. www.nutrition.org.uk, published 2009
  • Carbohydrates: good carbs guide the way. Harvard School of Public Health. www.hsph.harvard.edu, accessed 31 July 2012
  • Ooi CP, Loke SC, Yassin Z, et al. Carbohydrates for improving the cognitive performance of independent-living older adults with normal cognition or mild cognitive impairment. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 2011, Issue 4. doi: 10.1002/14651858.CD007220.pub2
  • About carbohydrate. Diabetes UK. www.diabetes.org.uk, published May 2012
  • Carbohydrates. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. www.cdc.gov, published 4 October 2011
  • Sugars. Food Standards Agency. www.eatwellscotland.org, accessed 31 July 2012
  • Carbohydrates. American Diabetes Association. www.diabetes.org, accessed 31 July 2012
  • Masters B, Aarabi S, Sidhwa F, et al. High-carbohydrate, high-protein, low-fat versus low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat enteral feeds for burns. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 2012, Issue 1. doi: 10.1002/14651858.CD006122.pub3
  • Starchy foods. Food Standards Agency. www.eatwellscotland.org, accessed 31 July 2012

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#10 Old 02-14-2013, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longstocking View Post

In terms of fresh veggies and fruits: most low-carber believe its important to eat a lot of fresh veggies and a smaller amount of fruits. 

The quote about carbohydrates doesn't exactly prove anything, unfortunately. Yes, carbohydrates are the easiest source of energy for the body, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the healthiest one. And technically, out of three energy sources, they are the ones that are not essential. The body is capable of producing enough glucose from protein (and if you cut on carbs, the percentage of protein in your diet increases, so the body will use the protein from food sources to produce glucose, not the muscle or organ tissue). The body can use both fat and protein as a source of energy. Also technically speaking, brain is the only organ that requires glucose to function normally, other organs can switch to function on ketones (by-products of fat break down). And some organs, like heart or kidney actually prefer ketones if both are available. And well, not all low-carbers claim that you need to cut off ALL carbs from your diet. Some would eat lots of veggies, fruits, nuts and even whole grains in small amounts, all of which have a decent amount of carbohydrates. 

Also, again, most of the articles/studies that you're providing were made on people who consumed high-fat foods WHILE also consuming a lot of carbs. Are there any studies made on people who consumed a lot of fats and protein, along with fresh vegetables while keeping their carbohydrates low?

NOTE: I want to make clear that I'm not supporting a low-carb diet, primarily because I think that it's unethical. But the arguments I'm giving are the ones that I myself heard many times before and couldn't say anything against it. 
I'm not really educated on the subject, although I thought I ought to put out information from a trustworthy source to give the issue a different perspective!

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#11 Old 02-14-2013, 03:50 PM
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The brain needing glucose to function normally is enough for me! smiley.gif
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#12 Old 02-14-2013, 05:36 PM
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_research_related_to_low-carbohydrate_diets
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#13 Old 02-15-2013, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post

The brain needing glucose to function normally is enough for me! smiley.gif


Even if your carbohydrate intake is virtually ZERO (which is impossible, unless you only eat animal flesh) the body can produce as much glucose as needed from non-carbohydrate sources (usually from protein) through the process called gluconeogenesis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis Also, if the body is receiving little carbohydrates for a long time, it switches to ketosis and over time the brain can gradually switch to functioning efficiently on about 75% ketones, 15% glucose. Either way, your brain won't starve. Your body will produce the needed glucose.

 

Us, vegetarians have no problem with not getting DHA or EPA directly from food because the body can convert ALA to both DHA or EPA. Same thing with the non-essential amino-acids or vitamin D, the body can synthesize it on its own. So why synthesizing carbohydrates ffom non-carbohydrate sources is so different?

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#14 Old 02-15-2013, 12:50 AM
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Ewe Nanny and drowsyturtle, thanks for your links! I will read into them and get back to you!

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#15 Old 02-15-2013, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longstocking View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post

The brain needing glucose to function normally is enough for me! smiley.gif


Even if your carbohydrate intake is virtually ZERO (which is impossible, unless you only eat animal flesh) the body can produce as much glucose as needed from non-carbohydrate sources (usually from protein) through the process called gluconeogenesis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis Also, if the body is receiving little carbohydrates for a long time, it switches to ketosis and over time the brain can gradually switch to functioning efficiently on about 75% ketones, 15% glucose. Either way, your brain won't starve. Your body will produce the needed glucose.

 

Us, vegetarians have no problem with not getting DHA or EPA directly from food because the body can convert ALA to both DHA or EPA. Same thing with the non-essential amino-acids or vitamin D, the body can synthesize it on its own. So why synthesizing carbohydrates ffom non-carbohydrate sources is so different?

I'm an RN, so I'm familiar with how the body processes food into energy, thank you for the little lecture there anyway. I guess the main focus of low carb diets is weight-loss, and that isn't my interest, tbh.

Per webmd:

High protein, low-carb diets can cause a number of health problems, including:Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.

High cholesterol. It is well known that high-protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke, and cancer.

Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High-protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete a large amount of calcium in their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones. A diet that increases protein at the expense of a very restrictive intake of plant carbohydrates may be bad for bones, but not necessarily a high-protein intake alone.

Cancer. One of the reasons high-protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain your protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce your risk of developing cancer.

***Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis)***.
 Low-carb diets can cause your body to go into a *dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy*. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day." http://www.m.webmd.com/diet/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets?page=3
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#16 Old 02-15-2013, 03:52 AM
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I'm an RN, so I'm familiar with how the body processes food into energy, thank you for the little lecture there anyway.


Does RN mean "registered nurse"? Sorry, English is nor my native language.

 

I really appreciate it that someone in the medical field is participating in this discussion. I don't know about the extent of your knowledge on the subject and I wasn't trying to lecture you. However, your argument about brain needing glucose to function didn't make sense to me (still doesn't) because as I've already mentioned before that, the body can produce enough glucose from non-carbohydrate sources. This is why I thought that I wasn't clear initially and felt that I needed to repeat myself and go into more detail about it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post

I guess the main focus of low carb diets is weight-loss, and that isn't my interest, tbh.

Not for everybody. Many start a low-carb diet to lose weight, but then start to see it as a life-style and a way to stay healthy, and continue stay on this diet for years after reaching their goal weight. In fact, from my past experience on a low-carb message board, most active members there considered it the most effective and natural diet for health.   

Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post

High protein, low-carb diets can cause a number of health problems, including:Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.

I've heard this many times before, but as far as I know high-protein diet is only unsafe for people who ALREADY have kidney disease and that it is safe and doesn't contribute to kidney disease for people with healthy kidneys. But I will read more on it and get back to you!

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post
High cholesterol. It is well known that high-protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke, and cancer.

 

Again, if I understand correctly those studies weren't made on people who follow a low-carb diet, but simply on those who eat a lot of read meat, eggs etc. As I've mentioned before, according to what the low-carb community believes it's the combination of high-carb, high-fat that is dangerous, nut the fat or cholesterol alone. I repeat, many people who follow a low-carb diet claim to be able to lower their cholesterol levels and blood-pressure.

 

 

Now, about ketosis. There's a lot of controversy surrounding this state and there's no unanimity about it among medical professionals. Here is a quote from wikipedia:

 

Quote:
 

Some clinicians regard restricting a diet from all carbohydrates as unhealthy and dangerous. However, it isn't necessary to completely eliminate all carbohydrates from the diet in order to achieve a state of ketosis. Other clinicians regard ketosis as a safe biochemical process that occurs during the fat-burning state.

...

The anti-ketosis conclusions have been challenged by a number of doctors and advocates of low-carbohydrate diets, who dispute assertions that the body has a preference for glucose and that there are dangers associated with ketosis.

Also, I've read a lot of anti-low carb articles (even on medicine-related websites) that simple confuse ketosis with ketoacidosis, which is a similar, but a different process that is dangerous and occurs primarily in patients with type I diabetes.  

 

Thanks for the links on cancer and osteoparosis! I will look into them and get back here.

 

One last thing that I'd like to point out is that even though many of the articles are written by doctors, it doesn't necessarily mean that what they say is undisputable truth. We, as vegetarians, know very well that when it comes to nutrition, doctors, unfortunately, may not be always the most informed source. I myself was told several times by doctors that a vegetarian diet isn't healthy because "I'm not getting enough nutrients". There were threads about doctors and nutrition here before. 

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#17 Old 02-15-2013, 04:53 AM
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Yes, I have read many threads here about doctors and nutrition. rolleyes.gif

I also do not like any weight loss diets that tout meat as being a weight-loss assist. Let's kill a bunch of animals so we can lose weight.

Instead, how about they exercise a tad and cut back on the calories? As if most overweight people don't eat more meat than they should. rolleyes.gif
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#18 Old 02-15-2013, 05:00 AM
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And heavens, I'm trying desperately to be nice here, but do you really think I am confusing ketoacidosis with ketosis? I just had a patient with ketoacidosis last month.
Doesn't mean ketosis is healthy.
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#19 Old 02-15-2013, 10:41 AM
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I'm sorry if I came across as aggressive or arrogant. That wasn't at all my intent. I am obviously not trying to encourage you or anyone here to follow a low-carb diet. I don't support those diets either, because I consider them unethical. Unfortunately not all people care about animals or not care about them enough. And if they care about their health and believe that a certain diet is the healthiest out there or even the only healthy one (as many low-carb adherents do believe), they will follow it. And like I said, most "serious" low-carbers don't do it for weight-loss, they believe it's the only diet that is truly healthy and will defend this idea ad nauseam. And well, you seem have a somewhat distorted idea about low-carbers. Most of the ones I've met control their calorie intake, eat a lot of fresh (non-starchy) vegetables and exercise several times per week. Some are athletes or bodybuilders. It reminds me of the way many low-carbers see vegetarians as emaciated yoga geeks who only eat kale and sprouts.

 

I honestly don't question your competence as a nurse or your medical knowledge. I don't doubt that you personally know very well the difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis. I was simply stating the fact that I've read "medical" articles on the subject that obviously confuse the two. 

 

Please understand, that I am not interested in proving you wrong. On the contrary I'd be happy to find the unquestionable proof that low-carb diets are unhealthy and that vegetarianism is the only healthy diet, because I've chosen this diet, too). However, what I care most about is the truth. I firmly believe that vegetarian diet is the most ethical one. But when it comes to health there's still a debate even in the medical community. And I've noticed that both sides here, vegetarians and low-carbers are always ready to believe any article or study that proves that the diet that they chose is the right one without questioning the arguments provided or the source. But if there's an article against their diet they will either dismiss it right away as an unreliable source or will scrupulously try to find the weak spots to prove it wrong. Personally I believe just because a certain article seems to prove that the vegetarian diet is healthy it doesn't necessarily mean that all that is said in the article is true or that the arguments it provides are valid. I believe that a wrong thing said for the right reason is still a wrong thing.    

 

I've participated in discussions with low-carbers before and couldn't contradict all of their arguments. In the future I want to be able to "stand my ground" and be able to defend my choice to go veggie from the health point of view. The arguments I'm providing here are the ones that I've heard myself many times before.   

 

I would like to make it clear, that I'm not arguing with you here. I'm questioning an idea. If I'm starting to annoy you with my questions or arguments you may obviously simply not respond in this thread anymore. Maybe someone else will join the discussion.

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#20 Old 02-15-2013, 11:10 AM
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Maybe you can read all the articles and medical studies that vb people took the time to post here; that may help with your quest for health.

Best of luck. smiley.gif
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#21 Old 02-15-2013, 11:58 AM
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Thank you! I have time to read them more thoroughly now. If I find something I haven't heard before I will talk to the low-carbers I know to see if they will be able to contradict me. The osteoporosis and kidney stone link is something I haven't heard before and looks especially promising so far.

 

Thanks again for all the links! I really do appreciate it! smiley.gif

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#22 Old 02-15-2013, 04:51 PM
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Regardless if weight loss occurs for these low-carb folks (and why aren't they staying at a healthy weight, anyway....), that doesn't mean it's a high nutrient diet.  I'd be shocked if they are meeting their vitamin and mineral needs.  In fact, most of the cooked food diets, even vegan, I have sampled and factored, esp. high-grain and processed foods, fall short in nutrients.  Diets high in dark leafy green vegetables, sweet fruits, nonsweet fruits, and some nuts and seeds seem to be best, IMO.

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#23 Old 02-17-2013, 01:22 PM
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I am truly worried "Fatkins" will rear its ugly head again in some form. It's been about a decade since the last Atkins fad, so people will have forgotten how awful/unhealthy it made them feel. Also, meat sales are down in the US, and the meat industry has taken a real battering with graphic facory farm exposes.


slops, gloops, and gruels.
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#24 Old 02-17-2013, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longstocking View Post

Even if your carbohydrate intake is virtually ZERO (which is impossible, unless you only eat animal flesh) the body can produce as much glucose as needed from non-carbohydrate sources (usually from protein) through the process called gluconeogenesis.
All animals can run on fats and protein at least short-term....and there is a very good reason for that. Its how we deal with starvation, when there is a lack of food we can start burning fats and using the proteins in our muscles to keep our bodies running. Using this fact to promote low-carb diets makes no sense though, again, its an ability all animals poses since we all store energy as fat and have protein throughout our body.

How well does the human body perform in carbohydrate deprived state? Not very well.... The body can maintain on fats, but fats can't supply the body with enough energy to perform well athletically. And contrary to your suggestion, the body cannot get as much glucose as it wants from protein. Unlike fats and carbohydrates, the body has a limited capacity to process dietary protein and gluconeogensis is even more limited.

For weight loss low carbohydrate diets may be effective at least in the short-term, but they don't maintain the body in a state whether it can perform well, etc. Of course most low-carbohydrate dieters are overweight and aren't very active, they never notice the reduced energy levels. Take one on a hike....and watch in amusement. Low-carbohydrate dieters call the reduced energy levels "the low-carb flu", some claim its a temporary condition that lows a few months.

Regardless, you can create a low-carbohydrate vegetarian diet so low-carbohydrate diets aren't in themselves anti-vegetarian. Of course in practice low-carbohydrate diets are used to justify the consume of bacon, steak, eggs, etc....

There is really no reason to take low-carbohydrate diets seriously though, there aren't any long-term studies that show that they promote good health. Indeed, we are seeing the opposite, the long-term studies that track health outcomes (not just short-term biomarkers like cholesterol levels) keep showing that these diets are problematic. Of course, since many of these studies aren't looking at people with very low carbohydrate intakes they will excuse them, but the burden of proof is on them. They need to support their position and until they do there is no reason to take it seriously.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/06/27/atkins-type-diets-may-raise-risk-of-heart-problems-study

Our understanding of saturated fat, etc has changed though.
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