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#1 Old 01-21-2013, 04:31 PM
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This may be the wrong place to post this but I'm curious what others think of the Paleo diet? it is becoming very popular. According to the FAQ's on the website they believe vegan and vegetarian diets are not healthy. They claim all grains are bad for you.

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#2 Old 01-21-2013, 04:41 PM
 
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I think it is certainly immoral and probably unhealthy. You'll notice the Paleo people never talk about animal ethics. They seem to be more concerned with what cavemen ate and less concerned with morality. Veganism is a moral philosophy and the Paleo diet is just that...a diet.


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#3 Old 01-21-2013, 04:48 PM
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I think it is certainly immoral and probably unhealthy. You'll notice the Paleo people never talk about animal ethics. They seem to be more concerned with what cavemen ate and less concerned with morality. Veganism is a moral philosophy and the Paleo diet is just that...a diet.


yes I agree but I'm curious what others think about the fact that they claim all grains and even beans are so bad for you. If I gave up grains and beans I'm not sure I could keep enough veggies in the house to eat. I agree that wheat can be an allergen, but what about brown rice?

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#4 Old 01-21-2013, 04:53 PM
 
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yes I agree but I'm curious what others think about the fact that they claim all grains and even beans are so bad for you. If I gave up grains and beans I'm not sure I could keep enough veggies in the house to eat. I agree that wheat can be an allergen, but what about brown rice?


I do not like talking about health since I am not qualified, but I find their claims highly questionable.

 

Try this experiment: Try to find one credible medical or health related organization that recommends anything remotely like the Paleo diet. Most of them recommend eating more plants and less animal products. And where is the Paleo equivalent of the China Study and Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease?


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#5 Old 01-21-2013, 04:57 PM
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I think it's a fad. Every few years a new fad pops up: low-fat, no-fat, low carb, high protein, blood type, food combining, Mediterranean, etc... It's just a new way to sell diet and cook books, imho.

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#6 Old 01-21-2013, 05:00 PM
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One doesn't have to eat grains as a vegan! Paleo vegan diets exist!

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#7 Old 01-21-2013, 05:11 PM
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I think the Paleo Diet works as much as, it does make people lose weight.


However, it's been built on a false theory- The idea that cavemen ate mostly meat.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/27/caveman-diet-stone-age-humans-meat_n_2031999.html
 

 

Even before I read that article I thought the idea of eating that much meat, every single day, was a bit of a far stretch. I mean, it takes time to hunt the animal, kill the animal, bring the animal back. That could take a whole week and what was the tribe doing then? Existing on fruits and nuts that the women gathered. (I assume from a very basic understanding of tribal cultures)

 

As for beans and grain, there are people who have an intolerance for those things. But not every person. Just like every person isn't lactose intolerant. Or intolerant to eggs, or gluten, or wheat.

There was probably a month where my body wasn't too fond of beans. But, I also wasn't preparing them properly. After that, everything seems fine. There are arguments for and against, but in my personal experience, it's not caused me a problem.

Though, on the point of grains. If those on the paleo diet really believe in what they're doing because "it's what cavemen did" even though cavemen probably DIDN'T. They should be opting for free range meat that eats grass. Not grain. (Grain isn't particularly healthy for cows either, something to do with the way they digest it, I think.) Something that none of them seem to talk about too much, which makes me wonder exactly how much they've thought about their diets.

 

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#8 Old 01-21-2013, 05:14 PM
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I should also add- I don't think it makes people lose weight in a healthy or truly sustainable way for most people. It also appears to be pretty dangerous.

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#9 Old 01-21-2013, 06:12 PM
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I should also add- I don't think it makes people lose weight in a healthy or truly sustainable way for most people. It also appears to be pretty dangerous.

It certainly doesn't seem very heart-healthy.
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#10 Old 01-21-2013, 09:04 PM
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I am not too concerned about idealizing diets, but making a vegan diet work. My main concern is not eating the best diet possible, but eating an ethical diet.

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#11 Old 01-21-2013, 09:17 PM
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It's an insane fad diet.

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#12 Old 01-21-2013, 10:31 PM
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Though, on the point of grains. If those on the paleo diet really believe in what they're doing because "it's what cavemen did" even though cavemen probably DIDN'T. They should be opting for free range meat that eats grass. Not grain. (Grain isn't particularly healthy for cows either, something to do with the way they digest it, I think.) Something that none of them seem to talk about too much, which makes me wonder exactly how much they've thought about their diets.
Its not just "free range" meat, it would be wild game. When you talk about "meat" (and grains) like this its a Trojan for their gibberish. Grains are just seeds of particular plants that humans domesticated 10,000~20,000 years ago and paleolithic humans certainly ate seeds. The paleo group uses the very general term "meat" to cover up the fact that the "meat' they are eating, like today's grains, didn't exist either....they are eating domestic animals.

Why is the consuming of a domesticated animal food some how more paleolithic than the consumption of a domesticated seed food? I don't know..... Raw food folks often make the same mistake, forgetting that the fruits, nuts, etc we eat today are all domestic varieties of wild plants.

With that said, I think its highly instructive to look out the sort of diets our species evolved around. But when you do that its a lot closer to a vegan diet without refined foods than it is a carnivorous diet without refined foods.
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#13 Old 02-24-2013, 06:50 AM
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It's an insane fad diet.

Agreed, my sister who is paleo constantly tries to get me on board.


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#14 Old 02-24-2013, 08:37 AM
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I agree that it is an extreme diet - and not (likely) a long-lasting lifestyle.
 

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#15 Old 02-24-2013, 09:54 AM
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Didn't the cavemen only have a life expectancy into their 20's.  That may be all we need to know.
 

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#16 Old 02-24-2013, 01:28 PM
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"Cavemen" primarily died of communicable disease, starvation and injury so comparing life expectancy with today doesn't tell you much about dietary lifestyle.

The point of looking at our evolutionary history is that it tells about the foods our body would have adapted towards, for example if our ancestors have been eating tubers for millions of years (and they have) then we would have developed mechanisms to deal with them (and we have).
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#17 Old 02-24-2013, 01:53 PM
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There are a ton of diets making a ton of claims out there. The pertinent questions are do they have evidence and how strong is that evidence? 

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#18 Old 02-24-2013, 04:47 PM
 
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I also think it's a misguided fad. I applaud the notion of removing processed foods and eating whole foods, but I think they have it wrong when it comes to meat consumption and grains. Early humans didn't live long enough to suffer the diseases that hit us in older age (heart disease, cancer, Alzheimer's, etc) that have been linked to the consumption of animal-based proteins.
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#19 Old 02-24-2013, 10:58 PM
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Evolution is non-directed. It also is not guaranteed to result in optimal solutions, often (maybe even usually) resulting in just-good-enough solutions. The paleofantasists, like many diet faddists, are seeking a mythical ideal and using a junior high level of "understanding" of science to convince themselves they know how to obtain it.

 

logic - are you suggesting malnutrition was not an issue in prehistory? An awful lot of evidence suggests otherwise.

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#20 Old 02-25-2013, 07:35 AM
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It's Atkins 2.0...meat sales are actually going down in the US for the first time in a long time, and the meat industry has recieved several black eyes regarding food safety and ethics in recent years. Expect them to be fighting back by appealing to short-term dieters with fad diets.

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#21 Old 02-25-2013, 03:17 PM
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Assuming they are correct, I'm cool with it, so long as you spend 4-5 days looking for your meat and walk 10 miles per day looking for said meat.  Oh, and sacrifice a friend or two ever few months to simulate "death by sabertooth tiger." 

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#22 Old 02-25-2013, 03:22 PM
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Assuming they are correct, I'm cool with it, so long as you spend 4-5 days looking for your meat and walk 10 miles per day looking for said meat.  Oh, and sacrifice a friend or two ever few months to simulate "death by sabertooth tiger." 

Plus use something like a sharpened stick and leap on the back of your prey. Then tear it apart raw with your highly- touted canine teeth.
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#23 Old 02-25-2013, 07:18 PM
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Evolution is non-directed. It also is not guaranteed to result in optimal solutions, often (maybe even usually) resulting in just-good-enough solutions.
Yep, its not a guarantee, but its a good guide post. Theories in nutrition need to be tested experimentally, but evolutionary considerations can provide direction and context.
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logic - are you suggesting malnutrition was not an issue in prehistory? An awful lot of evidence suggests otherwise.
No, I didn't say anything about malnutrition. I said that looking at our evolutionary history can tell us about the sort of foods our body adapted around.
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#24 Old 07-09-2013, 12:32 PM
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Low carb veggies help you lose weight too and realistically exercise plain and simple move it to lose it .... Every omni at my job that went on a crazy meat only diet wanted that magic lose weight and sit on my bum all day results however they missed their fruits and veggies and they looked so sad watching me eat my yummy salads and sweet potato ..... Man/Woman cannot live on meat alone imho we can live without putting animals and their products on our plates.... Cavemen are so pase' lol
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#25 Old 07-09-2013, 01:13 PM
 
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I'm coming of a primal experiment of several months and I ate meat, veggies, some dairy and limited amounts of fruit, nuts, honey, olives etc (primal is a more laid back version of paleo and dairy is allowed). I was already in maintenance when I started so my focus wasn't on weight loss and I didn't see a fluctuation in the scale, though I did lose more weight when I cut out most wheat products. But, after a while I started gaining weight-not a lot, but it creeped up enough to get me out of my maintenance safety zone. And I also started having stomach/digestion issues. I did focus on eating beef and pork since I don't like poultry/fish, so that may have been more the issue, than just eating a lot of meat in general. Honestly, I enjoyed this way of eating, but it's expensive and also the weight/stomach issues made me realize this way of eating is just not a good fit for me. So my quest for the perfect way of eating for me, for maintenance continues-hence why I'm here and trying the vegetarian thing :) I'm eating very similar, except moving veggies to my biggest focus, a bit more fruit, and then I will eat a few things I hadn't been-like oatmeal and I'm going to experiment with beans (don't really care for them but a couple times a week for the nutrients should be doable).

 

As far as the whole science idea behind paleo/primal-I'm pretty much a creationist so that part of the diet never clicked with me lol.

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#26 Old 07-09-2013, 09:43 PM
 
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I know somebody that is on the Paleo-Diet and we have had many debates (always friendly). Personally I believe just like a lot of other diets its a fad but my biggest argument for it is, if grains are bad then are you eating organic meat? because if you're not then you are taking in bad meat that was fed nothing but corn and grain.... Also though I do avoid milled grains as much as possible! but my friend that is doing the Paleo-Diet read a bunch of stuff on-line and I showed him countering arguments, but there is a great documentary called forks over knives and its PRO VEG and shows a lot of health concerns with eating meat.

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#27 Old 07-10-2013, 12:51 AM
 
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Do these people also live in caves? Or do they just pick abs choose which part of a cavemans life and diet they want to live?

I can't find the link but I read an interesting story that their diets have been misrepresented for years due to the simple fact that bones from animals have survived but the waste from grains, veg & fruit obviously hasn't. It is believed that we ate a diet similar to that of chimps where about 2% of out calories came from meat & eggs.

Also read that the whole grain debate is also wrong because fossils/skeletons have been found with grains within their teeth.

I will try and find them.
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#28 Old 07-10-2013, 02:37 AM
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If they are trying to argue that humans weren't designed to eat grains and beans, they might want to take a good look at our modern lifestyle too.  Humans weren't really designed to sit at an office desk and type on a computer all day either, or drive cars everywhere, or wear highly technical tennis shoes.  I doubt too many people are going to give up those luxuries.

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#29 Old 07-10-2013, 02:59 AM
 
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Naturebound that's exactly my point. They just want to pick and choose what aspect of 'caveman living' that suits them and then make ludicrous claims that 'it's what we're designed to eat!'. Thanks for the post!
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#30 Old 07-10-2013, 04:40 AM
 
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I know somebody that is on the Paleo-Diet and we have had many debates (always friendly). Personally I believe just like a lot of other diets its a fad but my biggest argument for it is, if grains are bad then are you eating organic meat? because if you're not then you are taking in bad meat that was fed nothing but corn and grain.... Also though I do avoid milled grains as much as possible! but my friend that is doing the Paleo-Diet read a bunch of stuff on-line and I showed him countering arguments, but there is a great documentary called forks over knives and its PRO VEG and shows a lot of health concerns with eating meat.


The big names in paleo/primal eating (Sisson, Wolf etc) do advocate only eating local, grass fed organic meat, produce and dairy (if you eat dairy),and to avoid buying conventional store bought. That was another issue I had with eating primal-while I do actually get most of my beef and eggs from a local source, it's not feasible for me to get pork or chicken, because of the cost. And I'm not going to buy part of a cow share to get around our state's laws on raw milk because that just creeps me out lol. I can buy local, grass fed cheese but again-it's $5 for 1/2lb. I can do that once in a while but not every week. And local, grass fed butter is very rare around me and if I can find it it's very cost prohibitive. Being truly primal/paleo is EXPENSIVE! That was one of the biggest negatives for me during my experiment-I was spending more on food for me, than I was for the rest of my family of a husband and three kids!

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