evangelical vegatarians - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 12-28-2012, 06:59 AM
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I have only met a few vegatarians in my life, but all of them tried to shove their views down my throat.

And i think that's where alot of hostility towards vegatarianism comes from. The whole 'eating meat is bad' thing simply doesn't work and it only manages to piss people off.

How can you expect someone to listen to you, let alone agree with you, when you're being hostile towards any opinion but your own? You reap what you sow they say.

Like it or not, humans are predators. We have been eating meat for thousands of years.
Eating meat isn't wrong nor unhealthy (in moderation). It's just considered unethical by some people.

Some respect for meat eating people would take vegatarianism a long way.
Focus on the benefits of vegatarianism instead of the bad things about eating meat.
Lead by example, not by preaching. And people will follow naturally.

But perhaps i just met the wrong vegatarians. tongue3.gif
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#2 Old 12-28-2012, 07:19 AM
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Lead by example, not by preaching. And people will follow naturally.
You don't think your post was a tad preachy?
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#3 Old 12-28-2012, 07:38 AM
 
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Just for clarification, it's vegetarian(s).

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#4 Old 12-28-2012, 07:56 AM
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I was all excited.  I thought this thread was going to be about Evangelical Christians who are vegetarians.  I guess not.


"It is far better to be happy than to have your bodies act as graveyards for animals. Accordingly, the apostle Matthew partook of seeds, nuts and vegetables, without flesh"- Clement of Alexandria
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#5 Old 12-28-2012, 08:00 AM
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Welcome to Veggieboards smiley.gif

 

Writing an antagonistic rant for your introductory post probably wasn't the finest of your ideas rolleyes.gif

 

Having said that, I get exactly where you are coming from. I understand because I used to be one of those judgemental ass-holes myself, (many years ago, I'm happy to say).

 

The problem is that people go vegetarian/vegan when they get 'it' : when they understand that animals can feel pain and emotion, and when they understand that there is no difference between pets and farm animals - and it's so bleeding obvious that they can't understand why everyone else can't see it as well. So they get all preachy and rant and rave. It can sometimes take years for someone to suss that this behaviour alienates people rather than gets them on your side. And some people will never get to the point where they stop judging others who have a different perspective on animal welfare.

 

But yes, the way forward, and the way to get results, is to lead by example. Or as Ghandi aptly put it: 'be the change you wish to see in the world' 

 

And I think maybe you have just met the 'wrong' vegetarians. Most vegetarians I know are kind and accepting, and not ranty at all. smiley.gif

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#6 Old 12-28-2012, 08:43 AM
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I have only met a few vegatarians in my life, but all of them tried to shove their views down my throat.
Chances are pretty good that you've met dozens more vegetarians than you realize, and less than 5% of those you've met have been like that. Those are just the vocal minority who stood out.

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#7 Old 12-28-2012, 11:44 AM
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Like it or not, humans are predators.

 

Is that why so many people have a tremendous aversion to killing an animal or even watching one being killed?

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#8 Old 12-28-2012, 12:00 PM
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Are you a vegetarian, wolfsa? This is a support forum and not a place for pro-meat debate, you can read our rules here: https://www.veggieboards.com/t/61578/rules-infraction-system-please-read-prior-to-posting

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#9 Old 12-28-2012, 12:09 PM
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Eating meat isn't wrong nor unhealthy (in moderation). 

 

I get the feeling the Wolfsa is not a vegetarian. I would comment on this, but I sense that a ban is coming soon, and it is impolite to argue with someone who can't talk back.

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#10 Old 12-28-2012, 12:46 PM
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Yes Werewolf Girl, i'm a vegetarian.
But that doesn't mean i'm against eating meat.
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#11 Old 12-28-2012, 01:14 PM
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Is that why so many people have a tremendous aversion to killing an animal or even watching one being killed?

Because people aren't used to it. 200 years ago animals were food, not cute. They didn't have any problems slaughtering animals back thenl
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#12 Old 12-28-2012, 02:01 PM
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Coming soon on veggieboards, somebody posting "I don't own slaves but I'm not against slavery" and expecting polite applause. 

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#13 Old 12-28-2012, 02:10 PM
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... you're calling veg*ns preachie? Any omni I have ever met is 9000x more preachie than a veg*n. And don't get me started on the advertising world.


You may have nothing wrong with eating animals, in the same way white people werent against slavery even though they didn't own slaves, or men against womens rights. The way injustice is corrected is by being loud about the evils of it.


Your opening post is an interesting start to this board for vegans and vegetarians.
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#14 Old 12-28-2012, 02:45 PM
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Chances are pretty good that you've met dozens more vegetarians than you realize, and less than 5% of those you've met have been like that. Those are just the vocal minority who stood out.
--Fromper
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This ^
Check your assumptions. For the next week begin every conversation with "just curious, are you vegetarian?" then take note of the responses.

Also, there's a name for "evangelical vegetarians and vegans". It's vegangelical.
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#15 Old 12-28-2012, 02:49 PM
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Also, there's a name for "evangelical vegetarians and vegans". It's vegangelical.

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#16 Old 12-28-2012, 04:07 PM
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Because people aren't used to it. 200 years ago animals were food, not cute. They didn't have any problems slaughtering animals back thenl

Even 200 years ago - put a toddler with a rabbit and an apple see which one it eats!

 

Humans are omnivorous - we survived eating whatever we could. Meat is very calorie dense - little need for that now.

The fact is, our ancestors ate a lot after carnivour kills, and a whole lot of bugs. I don't anything about bug eating.

 

To think that the vast majority of people do eat meat, the percent that is openly nasty towards veg'ns is ridiculously large!

I've never met a veg'n in real life that ridiculed people for eating meat, but just responding to wrong arguments about diet will get a veg'n criticized as preachy. 

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#17 Old 12-28-2012, 06:46 PM
 
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http://derailingfordummies.com/complete.html#hostile

 

Note: Vegetarians aren't "marginalized" per se, not in the same way of other margializations anyway, but the "you're being hostile so nobody will listen to you" argument as derailing still applies here.

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#18 Old 12-28-2012, 07:52 PM
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This thread is bona fide evidence we need a dislike button alongside the new like button. Nothing like an inexperienced, ill-informed, rash, detached, canonical nay-sayer blundering clumsily in, spewing drivel on its peers. What is it?  popcorn.gif


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#19 Old 12-29-2012, 06:37 AM
 
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I have only met a few vegatarians in my life, but all of them tried to shove their views down my throat.

It's usually the other way around. Probably around 50% of the meat eaters I talk to try and tell me how I'm missing out on taste and nutrition. By contrast, I almost never initiate a conversation about vegetarianism/veganism, and nor do any of the other vegetarians I know. I do participate in the occasional formal debate, but that's a little different.
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How can you expect someone to listen to you, let alone agree with you, when you're being hostile towards any opinion but your own? You reap what you sow they say.

Welcome to the world of social evolution. Aggressive memes are successful memes; just look at religion and politics. Meek, passive traits quickly die out because they're not passed on.
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Like it or not, humans are predators. We have been eating meat for thousands of years.

Not so. The early hominids are thought to have been foragers and scavengers, eating meat only where they could find animals that were already dead - I'd actually feel fine about people eating roadkill, if they so wish. We never had the bone structure to be predators, and hunting is very recent in our history (maybe 70-100 thousand years at most), where meat still made up only a fraction of our diets.

Our digestive tracts and teeth are representative of a herbivorous species.
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Eating meat isn't wrong nor unhealthy (in moderation). It's just considered unethical by some people.

What exactly is the difference between "wrong" and "unethical"? They're practically synonymous.

Either way, it's unnecessary and is linked with a lot of health problems. I'm struggling to see a reason why anyone would want to eat meat; it's just learned behaviour (which is why tastes vary so much between cultures; fillet steak is considered offal in some East Asian countries)
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Some respect for meat eating people would take vegatarianism a long way.

Respect isn't given, it's earned.
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Focus on the benefits of vegatarianism instead of the bad things about eating meat.

One of the best things about vegetarianism, is that you don't have the drawbacks that you get from eating meat (health, ethics, environment). They're intrinsically linked, and I have no interest in pandering to someone's preconceived notions about how great meat is.
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But perhaps i just met the wrong vegatarians. tongue3.gif

Based on your posts here, I would suggest vegetarians are preachy towards you because you deliberately bait them into it. Maybe if you were less preachy yourself, you would encounter less resistance to your views?
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Is that why so many people have a tremendous aversion to killing an animal or even watching one being killed?

Because people aren't used to it. 200 years ago animals were food, not cute. They didn't have any problems slaughtering animals back thenl

This, again, was only ever learned behaviour. If you place a cat in front of a young child, they don't instinctively bite its head off and eat its flesh; they stroke it and play with it. We have no killer instincts; we're not evolved biologically to hunt for food.

In fact, there is very strong evidence that slaughtering animals is not good for our physical or mental health. This is the sort of thing Pythagoras was talking about when he said "For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."

If I post anything offensive, it's society's fault, not mine.
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#20 Old 12-29-2012, 09:04 AM
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This thread is bona fide evidence we need a dislike button alongside the new like button. Nothing like an inexperienced, ill-informed, rash, detached, canonical nay-sayer blundering clumsily in, spewing drivel on its peers. What is it?  popcorn.gif

Well I've only got slightly more 'likes' than somebody else so what do I know? 

 

Think I'm gonner shave my beard off.

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#21 Old 12-29-2012, 09:57 AM
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That entire post is fairly provocative You tell us, without even knowing us, that we are being rude, that we are unsuccessful in our approach, and by saying "Eating meat isn't wrong nor unhealthy (in moderation). It's just considered unethical by some people" you are pretty much saying we are wrong. If that is how you approach vegetarians, yeah, they are going to be hostile. 

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#22 Old 12-29-2012, 10:15 AM
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My gut tells me that you're not a vegetarian, or you're a "vegetarian" who "only" eats fish and chicken. 

Exhibit A:   "I have only met a few vegatarians in my life, but all of them tried to shove their views down my throat."

 

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#23 Old 12-29-2012, 11:20 AM
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My gut tells me that you're not a vegetarian, or you're a "vegetarian" who "only" eats fish and chicken. 

Exhibit A:   "I have only met a few vegatarians in my life, but all of them tried to shove their views down my throat."

 

I want to agree. It really seems written from the perspective of an outsider looking in. Since OP has no moral issues with meat, and doesn't believe that it is unhealthy, if they are a vegetarian at all, it would just be because they don't like the taste. I've noticed that a lot of times they still eat fish, as the taste/texture if pretty different. Either way, there are part are boarder on pro-meat talk, which is not allowed regardless. At the very least maybe move this to the compost heap since it is quickly turning into a debate about the nature of the human diet.

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#24 Old 12-29-2012, 12:14 PM
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I think it's funny when preachy meat eaters complain about preachy vegan/vegetarians... Plus for every 1 preachy veg*n there are about a million preachy meat eaters. I can't even eat a veggie burger in peace in public without getting harassed, especially if my BIL is in the room. This is how our last family party involving veggie burgers went:

Him: that's not a burger, that's a VEGETABLE PATTY HAHAHAHA

Me: Your burger is just a meat patty? 

Him: Yeah, well MY FOOD ATE YOUR FOOD HAHAHA

Me: Cows don't eat water chestnuts/other ingredients that were in my burger? 

Him: They eat grass though! Har har your burger is made of grass and cardboard.

Me: - Finally snaps and tells him that the burger he is eating is not from a grass fed cow and goes on a rant-

Him: -wide eyed- Um.. okay I guess your burger isn't that bad. 

They complain about us being preachy but the only time I say anything to them is after they've been bothering me the entire time I'm eating. 

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#25 Old 12-30-2012, 12:15 PM
 
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Because people aren't used to it. 200 years ago animals were food, not cute. They didn't have any problems slaughtering animals back thenl

So in the year 1812 no culture yet had domesticated pets, had they? If you walked down the street and saw a (domesticated) cat in the year 1812 you would have tried to kill and eat it? Humans have found animals to be cute for a lot longer than 200 years. Sure, we've been completely schizo with regards to what animals we grant "cute" status, but not all animals have been regarded as food (obviously which animals depends on where you are in the world) for a long time.

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#26 Old 12-30-2012, 01:23 PM
 
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Wow, thanks OP!  I feel so enlightened now.  All those times that I've been made fun of for what I eat.  That time in high school when those kids threw the dead cat on the hood of my car.  All the WTF do you eat comments I have gotten from my coworkers...It's all because I'm a pushy vegan that is cramming my preachy beliefs down their throat.  Thanks for clearing that up.   

 

Yes, there are extremest in the veg*n community.  Just as there are in religion, in sports, in politics, and just about everything else that people are passionate about.  You can't base your opinion of the entire community on "the few vegetarians" you may have met at random.  It seems that you have a very negative view of the veg*n community for someone who is calling themselves a vegetarian.   

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#27 Old 12-30-2012, 02:07 PM
 
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I joined this forum yesterday, been a vegetarian for 27 years. Bit odd the rule banning non vegetarians! not very evangelical at all :)

Humans are omnivores. The nature of life is one of eternal conflict between lifeforms and the consumption of life by life. It is incorrect to see this process as evil or cruel, it is simply how the world works. Humans have evolved the best solution for survival with its wide appetite.

I choose to not eat meat, because I can make that choice. I chose to continue to eat dairy products, because I like them, and I like Cows and the many other lifeforms that benefit from the agriculture that supports them. The thing that disgusts me the most about modern man is not its flesh eating, its the mass production factory farm/environmental abuse that is now considered normal and the dangerous ignorance that it creates in those now isolated from the production of their food.

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#28 Old 12-30-2012, 02:27 PM
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Mr Twosheds, it is my understanding that non-vegetarians are banned here because of the trolls descending. Members of this site already know they aren't going to eat meat, and it is one of the few places that we don't have to explain ourselves or listen to people talking about how great a life grass-fed beef have before they are slaughtered. It isn't a place to convince others to become veg because we already are.
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#29 Old 12-30-2012, 02:43 PM
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I joined this forum yesterday, been a vegetarian for 27 years. Bit odd the rule banning non vegetarians! not very evangelical at all :)

Humans are omnivores. The nature of life is one of eternal conflict between lifeforms and the consumption of life by life. It is incorrect to see this process as evil or cruel, it is simply how the world works. 

I think you misread the rules.  Non-vegetarians are not banned.   The rules say:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You must be a vegetarian or have a sincere interest in going vegetarian to register and/or post here. This is not just a vegetarian forum, this is a forum for vegetarians.


We obviously can't control what you eat but we can control what you tell us. If you are not currently vegetarian that needs to be your goal. That means no chicken and no fish. Discussion of eating meat, especially with no intention of giving it up, is not appropriate and will result in an immediate ban. Examples:

Not acceptable: "I am a vegetarian who still eats chicken/fish!"

Not ok because vegetarians do not eat chicken and/or fish. If you have no desire to give these things up then this site is not for you.

Acceptable: "I want to go vegetarian but I'm having trouble giving up chicken/fish, help!"

Ok because you're seeking help in going vegetarian.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



I also believe we are/were designed as omnivores.  Obviously it made sense 10,000 years ago.   But this isn't the place to discuss it, and I respect that.  I like the rule.  I don't want to hear about someone justifying the consumption of "humane" meat in this forum.  We here enough of that IRL. 

Also, the OP is a troll.  

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#30 Old 12-30-2012, 02:48 PM
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I also believe we are/were designed as omnivores.  Obviously it made sense 10,000 years ago.   But this isn't the place to discuss it, and I respect that.  I like the rule.  I don't want to hear about someone justifying the consumption of "humane" meat in this forum.  We here enough of that IRL. 

Also, the OP is a troll.  

I agree. Being omnivores allows us to thrive on either plant or non plant food. But since in this day in age when we have an abundance of plant foods available, eating meat is a moral issue, so we should try to eat what causes the least amount of harm.

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