Stupid Things Omnivores Say, Version 6.0 - Page 50 - VeggieBoards
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#1471 Old 12-27-2013, 03:54 PM
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That's true. Its there for those reasons and all the collisions that occur. I find the term "dead carcasses" redundant and a little silly.
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#1472 Old 12-29-2013, 06:48 PM
 
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So visiting some friends today, my veganism came up. Apart from the shock and the mockery, some of the lines i got...

 

'Cows don't have to be pregnant to make milk, their udders are always full'

'They don't keep cows in small spaces'

'There's no way they constantly impregnate cows, cows need to be happy and ready to get pregnant, otherwise they can't. It's the same for any mammal'

 

The girl saying this once visited a farm as a child, and now thinks all captive animals are happy...

Maybe it shouldn't, but it shocked me more because 2 of them are vegetarians. Is this common logic among vegetarians? 


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#1473 Old 12-29-2013, 07:26 PM
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Maybe it shouldn't, but it shocked me more because 2 of them are vegetarians. Is this common logic among vegetarians? 
This may get me a warning, but it seems so. The "milk and eggs cause no harm" view is similar to the "meat comes from happy cows" view that carnists hold. As far as I can tell, the most harm and death comes in this order: Eggs, Milk, Fish, Poultry, Red Meat, Plant Agriculture. Then again, it takes a lot more feed to fatten a cow, so the red meat may be above the harm of poultry. *shrugs*
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#1474 Old 12-30-2013, 03:28 AM
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Just like with meat, egg and dairy industries differ in cruelty between countries and variety. I live in Sweden, with some of the strictest laws of animal cruelty. I also try to eat only organic eggs and dairy. This means chicken are allowed access to outdoor enclosures, enough space and decent environments in general. This doesn't mean those industries are cruelty free, but from what I can tell those animals wouldn't live much happier in the wild.

 

 

Going vegetarian was a hard step for me. Even though I agree with a lot of the vegan philosophy, cutting out eggs and dairy would be difficult for me. Both for my health and because I haven't yet adjusted to veg cooking. I have no doubt many vegetarians keep eating eggs and dairy for that same reason.

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#1475 Old 12-30-2013, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by tails View Post
 

So visiting some friends today, my veganism came up. Apart from the shock and the mockery, some of the lines i got...

 

'Cows don't have to be pregnant to make milk, their udders are always full'

'They don't keep cows in small spaces'

'There's no way they constantly impregnate cows, cows need to be happy and ready to get pregnant, otherwise they can't. It's the same for any mammal'

 

The girl saying this once visited a farm as a child, and now thinks all captive animals are happy...

Maybe it shouldn't, but it shocked me more because 2 of them are vegetarians. Is this common logic among vegetarians? 

 

I think it's difficult to make such a generalisation, because vegetarianism encompasses such a wide range of people, eating patterns and motivations - going from the people whose vegetarian diet replaces meat and fish with more dairy and eggs, to the people who eat a 99% vegan diet and buy cruelty free products.  So many vegetarians are aware of the issues with dairy and eggs and minimise their use as much as they can.

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#1476 Old 12-30-2013, 06:22 AM
 
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I think it's difficult to make such a generalisation, because vegetarianism encompasses such a wide range of people, eating patterns and motivations - going from the people whose vegetarian diet replaces meat and fish with more dairy and eggs, to the people who eat a 99% vegan diet and buy cruelty free products.  So many vegetarians are aware of the issues with dairy and eggs and minimise their use as much as they can.

 

Yeah you're right!

 

You really can't generalise like that. I was just mad because people are so hostile with this stuff sometimes.

Thanks for a better perspective on this :)


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#1477 Old 12-30-2013, 06:40 AM
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Yeah you're right!

 

You really can't generalise like that. I was just mad because people are so hostile with this stuff sometimes.

Thanks for a better perspective on this :)

 

Oh yes, the level of ignorance out there is stunning. Often it's willing ignorance as well - people just don't want to know. 

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#1478 Old 12-30-2013, 05:52 PM
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Please: no discussion about veganism versus vegetarianism.

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My usual answer: I have never heard a convincing reason to eat meat.
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#1479 Old 12-30-2013, 06:06 PM
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Just a reminder, this is stupid things omnivores say, not mistaken things vegetarians say wink3.gif
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#1480 Old 12-30-2013, 08:07 PM
 
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I think it's difficult to make such a generalisation, because vegetarianism encompasses such a wide range of people, eating patterns and motivations - going from the people whose vegetarian diet replaces meat and fish with more dairy and eggs, to the people who eat a 99% vegan diet and buy cruelty free products.  So many vegetarians are aware of the issues with dairy and eggs and minimise their use as much as they can.

This. I try to avoid dairy and eggs as much as possible but at this time I can't cut them out completely for various reasons, both financially and health-wise. I am completely aware of the suffering that occurs from production of meat, dairy, and eggs, and I feel very guilty when I eat dairy and eggs, but I do the best that I can and I believe that's better than most people out there do. 

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#1481 Old 01-01-2014, 10:10 AM
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  Saw the sign on the "mobile hog roast" place in my town.    It is a cartoon of a pig, with wheels instead of legs, and it is smiling.

 

I hate it when they have animal mascots like that.

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#1482 Old 01-01-2014, 10:18 AM
 
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  Saw the sign on the "mobile hog roast" place in my town.    It is a cartoon of a pig, with wheels instead of legs, and it is smiling.

 

I hate it when they have animal mascots like that.

That's so disgusting and just wrong. 

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#1483 Old 01-01-2014, 07:44 PM
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  Saw the sign on the "mobile hog roast" place in my town.    It is a cartoon of a pig, with wheels instead of legs, and it is smiling.

I hate it when they have animal mascots like that.

I agree.
When I see the iconic outline of a pig with dotted lines around her body representing how she is chopped up into pieces I feel so nauseous. It's usually on the menu or on the sign of barbecue places. I don't get how people can look at that and not be bothered. I even saw a christmas ornament of it at the mall! It takes away the dissociation of food and animal in a way that I would expect to turn people veg, not make their mouths water.
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#1484 Old 01-01-2014, 10:51 PM
 
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Someone today informed me that cows shouldn't be stopped from producing milk because then their calves won't be able to eat. Stupidest argument I've ever heard. I didn't even know how to respond to that one... I was just like "umm no, I've never heard anyone say that an animal should be stopped from producing milk for their own young" and walked away.  

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#1485 Old 01-03-2014, 07:55 AM
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My mom had a graduation diner for me a few weeks ago. We went to an italian restaurant I picked which is not veg but has a lot of good options. Its my favorite place. I got toasted raviolis and when I was ordering I made sure to ask for regular marinara sauce instead of meat sauce. As soon as I said this, my mom interrupted me and yelled to the waiter that I was vegetarian. I was trying to keep it low key. While we were eating I gave my fiancee one of the raviolis to try. I asked him if he wanted to dip it in the sauce on my plate. A friend of mine then pushes her plate towards him saying "Or you can dip it in this sauce which actually has the meat." ... Its a damn ravioli. Does it really matter what sauce its dipped in? I was a bit offended that she thought it was necessary to do that. After all, it was a dinner for me..


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#1486 Old 01-03-2014, 08:58 AM
 
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My mom had a graduation diner for me a few weeks ago. We went to an italian restaurant I picked which is not veg but has a lot of good options. Its my favorite place. I got toasted raviolis and when I was ordering I made sure to ask for regular marinara sauce instead of meat sauce. As soon as I said this, my mom interrupted me and yelled to the waiter that I was vegetarian. I was trying to keep it low key. While we were eating I gave my fiancee one of the raviolis to try. I asked him if he wanted to dip it in the sauce on my plate. A friend of mine then pushes her plate towards him saying "Or you can dip it in this sauce which actually has the meat." ... Its a damn ravioli. Does it really matter what sauce its dipped in? I was a bit offended that she thought it was necessary to do that. After all, it was a dinner for me..
Congratulations on your graduation.

Is your vegetarianism still somewhat new? I expect that your family and friends won't give it much thought after awhile.
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#1487 Old 01-03-2014, 11:41 AM
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Someone today informed me that cows shouldn't be stopped from producing milk because then their calves won't be able to eat. Stupidest argument I've ever heard. I didn't even know how to respond to that one... I was just like "umm no, I've never heard anyone say that an animal should be stopped from producing milk for their own young" and walked away. 

Should have answered with: Too bad the calves aren't the ones getting the milk.

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#1488 Old 01-03-2014, 01:24 PM
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Someone today informed me that cows shouldn't be stopped from producing milk because then their calves won't be able to eat. Stupidest argument I've ever heard. I didn't even know how to respond to that one... I was just like "umm no, I've never heard anyone say that an animal should be stopped from producing milk for their own young" and walked away.  

Except that's not what actually happen. The milk is used to make cheese for humans while the calves are tied to the ground so they can't move, fed milk replacement and then killed very young and sold as "veal".

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#1489 Old 01-03-2014, 01:41 PM
 
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Should have answered with: Too bad the calves aren't the ones getting the milk.

I started to explain that to them but they clearly didn't get it. I said that they were often artificially inseminated and then the calf was taken away and the cow was used for milk. Not to mention the fact that they made to produce way more milk than their bodies are meant to. But most it's amazing how so many people are so unaware of what goes on, and it kills me that they have no desire to know the truth. 

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#1490 Old 01-03-2014, 01:43 PM
 
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Except that's not what actually happen. The milk is used to make cheese for humans while the calves are tied to the ground so they can't move, fed milk replacement and then killed very young and sold as "veal".

Yeah, I started to tell them but they had no desire to listen and were just like "but if you get rid of all milk, than calves can't eat". Umm, no, not the case at all. Some people are ridiculous. 

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#1491 Old 01-03-2014, 04:56 PM
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Congratulations on your graduation.

Is your vegetarianism still somewhat new? I expect that your family and friends won't give it much thought after awhile.

No, actually I've now been vegetarian for a year! I was really upset that she did that knowing how I feel. Maybe next time I'll find a vegetarian restaurant. 


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Just because we always have, doesn't mean we always have to.

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#1492 Old 01-03-2014, 05:51 PM
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But most it's amazing how so many people are so unaware of what goes on, and it kills me that they have no desire to know the truth. 

 

I had that just the other day with a co-worker.  He was genuinely shocked at the reality; his face as well as his words made that clear.  He's in his 50's and had no idea of how milk is produced.

 

I explained that a cow is no different to a woman and will only produce milk for her offspring.  The only way to keep that milk coming for commercial use is to remove the calf/child and "express" the milk in their absence.  Once that milk starts to dry up you have to artificially impregnate them and start the cycle all over again.

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#1493 Old 01-04-2014, 05:23 AM
 
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This post in particular at the following link

 

http://animalrights.about.com/b/2009/06/17/obama-swats-kills-fly.htm

 

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I really could care less if our president swats a fly. My friend hunts, does that mean he should be put in jail for animal cruelty because he is cutting an animals life short? No. Animal rights is out of line, they care about insects now?
What about bacteria and viruses? Animal rights will never succeed because is an inborn part of human nature. I don’t see animal rights protecting humans (we’re animals too). Animal rights has now become a cow for money, it will stay alive as long as there is money involved, the day they don’t make a profit or have some donation, they’ll quit. This is sickening, “OMG, he killed a fly!! The camera man applauded him! Oh my God! He is such a horrid person!”
Animals were put on Earth by God for humans to use as a source of food and now there’s people fighting that. Oh wait I just imposed religion on people I’m a horrid person too! What a joke. I feel pity and disgust for the human race if this is what we are coming too.

Does animal rights protest war? War that kills people, people that are animals too? No. They are hypocrites, they say save animals (and insects) yet go home and eat a meal with meat in it and step on countless insects every day.

If nature has such an “intricate balance”, then why are there tornadoes floods and other natural disasters that kill countless animals? Do we protest that? No.

Example of hypocrisy
Banning the slaughter of downed cattle, so we just increased their suffering for an unknown amount of time, it could be 1 day or 10 years, but we didn’t slaughter them and kill them fast! Congat-u-censoring-lations you just turned yourself into a hypocrite and are proud of it.
Now I’m going to be mercilessly assaulted and criticized for voicing my opinion that contradicts everyone’s opinion.

I think my favorite part was the part about natural disasters that dastardly animal rights activists callously refrain from protesting against.

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#1494 Old 01-04-2014, 07:34 AM
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Yes we animal rights folks are notoriously pro- natural disasters. :sly:

I like "cows for money" ('cash cow' maybe he is thinking of? )
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#1495 Old 01-04-2014, 09:56 AM
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Has anyone else ever noticed that MOST animal rights advocates are also pro-human life (meaning, they are also aware and empathic about the plight of slaves, rape victims, child abuse, etc.)? While SOME humanitarians just don't give a damn about animals' lives (probably because they think that the lives of humans are far more superior than animals')? 

 

Or was it just me who's weird about this? 

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#1496 Old 01-04-2014, 10:03 AM
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I hate when people say (and lately I've been seeing this a lot even said by meat-eaters) "Don't test on animals. Test on people who do bad things (ex: rapists)".

I am against animal testing, but I don't think testing on people is right either, even if they're bad humans. 


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#1497 Old 01-04-2014, 10:56 AM
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I hate when people say (and lately I've been seeing this a lot even said by meat-eaters) "Don't test on animals. Test on people who do bad things (ex: rapists)".

I am against animal testing, but I don't think testing on people is right either, even if they're bad humans.

But humans can CONSENT. 

There are already studies where people get compensation for being test subjects.

I certainly don't advocate forced testing, but there are many who would volunteer.

America used to force that on people all the time without consent, sometimes without their knowledge. That fact that now that's not legal is heartening.

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#1498 Old 01-04-2014, 12:01 PM
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I don't think the people who say that care or not if humans can consent or are given money for it. They're basically just saying "Test on them because they deserve it/as punishment".


"We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form." - William Ralphe Inge

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#1499 Old 01-04-2014, 12:28 PM
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There are also many humans who would volunteer because their disease prognosis is so bleak and they are desperate to try anything, at the very least to feel as though they are fighting it.
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#1500 Old 01-04-2014, 09:29 PM
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As @silva pointed out, that's the main difference with testing on animals and testing on humans. Humans may opt to be subjected to the experiments or they can refuse (they have their reasons) but we can safely assume that ALL animals do NOT want to be tested on. (Based on their reactions before, during and after the experiments.)
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