Ask about the oyster sauce because there is a vegetarian/vegan type. We found out about it at our local Chinese restaurant. You can even get it at some supermarkets here.

I have had Chinese a restaurant put fish into vegetarian dishes and I won't eat at Thai restaurants at all any more because they say it's vegetarian - anything - but it will have fish sauce in it.

Oh, brother.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/wo69/oscar-m...ck-soccer-game

I...I don't even have the energy to read all of this... http://ubifidesibiamor.tumblr.com/po...povey-cinensis

I've been gone for a while (18 months or so) from these forums, and I can't believe this thread is still going - when are omnivores going to try and come up with better arguments?!!

A friend of mine: "you'll be really pleased with me, I've cut down on beef and pork, and eat lots more chicken instead".

Big sigh from me. And when I went on to explain that actually, more animals are being harmed not less, her face dropped. So she followed with "yeah, but it's only a chicken and chickens have smaller brains, they aren't very clever".

Another big sigh. And the start of a conversation about whether her much-loved and clever little dog (a terrier) is less intelligent than a bigger dog just because it's smaller.

Someday, someday, the penny will drop for this self-titled "animal lover".

Today on another message board I follow, someone asked for help in transitioning to vegetarianism and then veganism after watching some videos about factory farming. Within 5 minutes of her post 3 people told her the videos were bunk. I said that the suffering associated with factory farming was real, and that there were economic factors putting pressure on producers to compete and minimize costs that were contributing factors in this.

I thought that was a fairly non-controversial statement, but someone else basically accused me of special pleading and dishonesty and then offered this:

I thought it was amazing that this poster, who I've never interacted with before, knows my code of ethics so well that he/she was able to determine that there were producers in the dairy and meat industries that meet them.

Haha Omnivores become instant nutrition experts as well when they discover you don't eat meat; asking where you get your protein and iron etc from. I ask them nutrition questions back (innocently, of course) - where they get their Vitamin B6 from, and Vitamin K, and Vitamin E etc.....they generally have no idea

I really like what Matt Ball has to say about how to respond to knuckleheads in general. It’s about making small steps in the right direction until they finally see the light. Omnivores will be more receptive if we are encouraging instead of elitist or tearing them down. (mattball.org/2017/07/have-you-ever-had-bad-vegan-experience.html)

Her heart was in the right place, so I would focus on that. She’s trying. It’s obviously really mislead, but we have a habit of acting like they have all the same info we do. Not only do they NOT have that information, but most people aren’t emotionally ready to receive it anyway. Our job is to prep them, THEN teach them, not to convince, cuz it just doesn’t work.

EVERYONE should read “The Animal Activist’s Handbook” by Matt Ball, it’s taught me SO much about how to get the message across without becoming the judgmental vegan or the nazi foodie. (Mattball.org/2017/05/how-vegans-hurt-animals.html)

AND its really encouraging when you’re feeling discouraged =)

That's what I do! Don't forget potassium! I've seen a few people taken by ambulance for low potassium- found in abundance in beans and veggies

For all the smart people; is there a way to bookmark certain posts?

Yeah, that tends to be my way too. I've re-read what I wrote and it sounds like I was being a bit harsh, but really I wasn't, I explained gently rather than launched into an impatient tirade (that's not my style!) - but my heart just sinks when I hear these arguments again and again.

...And having been on the receiving end of verbal abuse myself by a few vegans on these forums some years ago, I advocate the "be kind to animals, including humans" approach. Nastiness gets us nowhere, it puts off potential veg*ns, and anyone leaning towards a plant-based diet. I'm a big fan of Matt Ball and his viewpoint. And I will check the book out as well, thanks for the recommendation.

Ugh! I have an aunt who eats fish and tells everyone she is a Vegetarian, its so annoying.

My friend "gave up meat" but still consumed chicken broth, then complains her hair is falling out, and says she's a vegetarian...

My friend "gave up meat" but still consumes food cooked in chicken broth, but she's still a "vegetarian".

My mom told me that I shouldn't go vegetarian, I should go low carb and eat meat because it is healthier and what about protein and vitamins. I facepalmed so hard at that.

My favorite is the way omnivores think it's cute...or funny...or original...or SOMETHING, when they ask, "don't you miss a good steak?!" or similar, like I'm depriving myself of something wonderful. Why, no, I don't miss the animal abuse and the flesh of a sentient being one bit!

Coworker made a stupid comment that I will probably never forgive. (And she's super-young, fresh-out-of-college too! It's not like she's old and set in her ways!)
Coworkers find out I'm vegan and wonder why I'm vegan. I explain I'm vegan for health first and animals second. I explain that 50% of people who die in the USA die of heart disease and the Top 10 causes of death are 100% diet-related (smoking and car accidents are the only things not diet-related). I point out that the vegan Seventh-Day Adventists in Loma Linda, California and the vegan Okinawans in Japan are the longest-living people on the planet with virtually no diseases of any kind.
Her reply: "It's a choice. You do your thing and I'll do mine."
"50% of people are dying of heart disease. It's more than a personal preference, it's a serious health risk."
"Anyone can write anything on the internet."
"This is written on the US gov't websites and numerous health organizations and peer-reviewed scientific studies."
"Which studies? Anyone can write anything on the internet."
And she basically just shrugs it off that there is any kind of health crisis in the world at all. She's young and thin due to extreme calorie restriction (rather than healthy eating). But I couldn't believe the level of self-denial of the health crisis in the USA, especially from someone who clearly cares enough about their physical form to calorie restrict like that. Most people I talk to will 100% admit there's a serious problem, even if they don't want to go vegan. I was thinking stuff like "WTF you moron? Have you been living under a rock? Do you not see the obesity epidemic around you? You are literally denying the sky is blue and the grass is green."

You cannot reason with someone that insane.


P.S. there is one coworker I talk to a lot about veganism, even tho I know it will never sink in because he doesn't want it to. However, I think some other coworkers have been occasionally listening in on the conversation because occasionally one of them will actually agree about dairy being bad or that the food/pharma companies are paying the gov't tons of money to lie to us about nutrition.
I always wished we could have a TV or radio playing in the background of supermarkets. Because people don't "want" the information until they have it. Only then do some of them realize they aren't comfortable knowing the truth and then doing nothing about it. (health issues or animal treatment)

It's true that there's a lot of unsubstantiated garbage on the internet, but I don't see why she is so skeptical of statements made by mainstream health organizations. You might try sending her these links:

American Heart Association's statement regarding vegetarian diets: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Health...p#.WnoHDGffOpo

American Diabetes Association's statement on vegetarian diets: http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fit...r-vegetarians/

Kaiser Permanente's (one of the largest health insurance companies in the United States) vegan nutrition guide: http://www.kphealthyme.com/Healthy-E...ased-Diet.aspx


For the sake of improved accuracy, it should be noted that, in the United States, heart disease kills closer to 25% of people, not 50%. Here is a link from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm



Link:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db26.htm



Also, it's (unfortunately) not true to say that the Seventh Day Adventists of Loma Linda are virtually free of disease (although their longevity is excellent). The peer-reviewed Adventist Health Study found that vegetarians had a 50% lower risk of type 2 diabetes, and about a 30% lower risk of heart disease mortality (37% reduced risk for males):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/70/3/532s/4714987

Today at work I brought some vegan cheese and some ritz crackers and shared it with everyone. My friend said it was good, and another guy was up there and he said, "You eat cheese made from cashews?" no rude, more like curious, and I said, "Yes, since I'm not a baby cow." Another colleague said, "Yum, veal" I very nicely didn't raise to the bait.

Good day, all. Today, from the "You Couldn't Make This Conversation Up If You Wanted To" file: over NYE, we get together as a family and go out to the coast, and one of our traditions is a "White Elephant" party. Two of the White Elephants we had this year had a box of edible crickets, and the other a box of edible larva. There was a debate on whether larva and crickets were okay for vegans or not. I, being the only vegan, said no, they aren't for vegans.

I am slightly concerned about how omnivores coming to the forum considering transition to vegan may react if they are consider themselves to have been labelled as stupid.


Do you think it would make sense to not have the word "stupid" in the thread title. How about just "things that omnivores say". We want to make this forum welcoming for people that are transitioning.


Just try and remember some of these people that are considering transitioning may find their way to this thread, and I worry that this could have a negative consequence in terms of the chance of them transitioning or joining the forum. So I also want to suggest that people keep this in mind when venting frustrations. Anyway, that is purely a suggestion so of course you may not agree with it.

I had a former friend who used the argument that Vegetarianism is wrong because people are meat during the ice age.

Honestly just because cavemen did it doesn't mean we should. We're civilized and developed to the point where we can utilize alternatives to eating meat.

I deleted him from my friends list. I simply changed my cover photo and he condescendingly commented with GIFs saying "no". I am not going to let him bash me for having empathy for animals.

Agreed 100%. Just changing the thread title would make this whole forum more welcoming to newcomers. The current thread title is insulting - I think it makes us look hostile.
.

Trust me, it's fine. I was an omni with some really dumb ideas about food until I joined. I read this thread and realized, "I don't believe that. I guess I'm not so dumb after all."

In today's episode of "Yes, That Really Was Said Aloud". We went to a farm over New Year's Eve, and they had goats and pigs and chickens. I knelt down to get to one pig's level and quoted Kafka to her. "I can look you in the eye; I'm not going to eat you." My mother asked the farmer how the pigs tasted and the farmer said, "Excellent".

While I understand that the "stupid" part might seem hostile, there is also truth in it. Sometimes we need to get the truth in seemingly harsh ways. There's a difference between being stupid and saying something stupid. The other day a coworker said that Maine Coon cats are crosses between cats and raccoons. And that, folks, is stupid.

I also think some of the common "defenses" are stupid and/or outright lies. I have a protein deficiency so I have to eat meat. Animals don't feel pain, so what does it matter? And my favorite, from a teacher, But fish aren't animals!