non slaughter dairy farms in us - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 08-01-2012, 06:23 PM
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MOD POST : The Vegetarian Discussion forum is not the place to argue that dairy consumption is not okay or that vegetarians should go vegan. Keep in mind this is primarily intended to be a support forum for vegetarians. Vegans are welcome to post here too, but these types of discussions should be reserved for other areas of the site such as the Compost Heap.

 

The rules can be reviewed here: https://www.veggieboards.com/t/61578/rules-infraction-system-please-read-prior-to-posting

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#32 Old 08-02-2012, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornsail View Post

MOD POST : The Vegetarian Discussion forum is not the place to argue that dairy consumption is not okay or that vegetarians should go vegan. Keep in mind this is primarily intended to be a support forum for vegetarians. Vegans are welcome to post here too, but these types of discussions should be reserved for other areas of the site such as the Compost Heap.

 

The rules can be reviewed here: https://www.veggieboards.com/t/61578/rules-infraction-system-please-read-prior-to-posting

Wouldn't the vegan discussion board be the most appropriate for the discussion of dairy, rather than the compost heap? It is a legitimate vegan issue that is directly relevant to living a vegan life. I don't think it should be relegated to the Heap. Just my opinion.
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#33 Old 08-02-2012, 07:34 AM
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LedBoots, by "such as the Compost Heap" I was just giving an example, not trying to imply that that is the only appropriate place.

 

Also, I did not mean to imply that the discussion of dairy is out of line here. The subject of this thread is absolutely not a problem. All my post was intended to convey is that the Vegetarian Discussion section is not the place for vegans to argue that vegetarians shouldn't consume dairy or that dairy consumption is immoral.

 

Sorry for any confusion!

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#34 Old 08-02-2012, 03:13 PM
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Thanks, I am a little touchy on the subject lately. tongue3.gif I feel as if vb is less vegan-friendly than it was previously.
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#35 Old 08-02-2012, 04:23 PM
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I don't mean "rights"in the same sense as we do, as I'm sure you would know. We gave blacks equal rights because they are human. But animals kind of have their own thing going on. The term of "rights" for them would be us not taking advantage of them for our purposes and for them to be able to live out their lives without being "slaves" to us.

 

Just because an animal's life is taken by a non human doesn't mean they lost their rights, by how you look at it, another gained a meal in order to keep living their life. :) 

 

People can always twist the words "welfare" around to suit their needs. But it's a little harder to twist a set of rights a being should be entitled to ^_^

I agree that animals have their own thing going on, but I really don't see how an animal living in "slavery" to humans- but kept by humans who genuinely understand how to keep the animal happy, and who don't cut his/her life short to eat him/her- has it so bad compared to a wildebeest or moose being eaten by lions or wolves.

 

See, this is where the radical animal rights advocates lose me: they appear to think any use of animals by humans is horrible... "slavery". But no matter how savage nature is, no judgements can be made about it. (And just to clarify: I do not believe that humans using an animal is okay just because an animal would suffer more and die sooner in nature. I shouldn;t have to say that, but I must, because so many apologists for animal use and abuse use something close to that line of reasoning!)


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#36 Old 08-03-2012, 05:01 AM
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Tom- Let's end the debate here since 4everaspirit can't defend his/her position in this thread. 

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#37 Old 08-03-2012, 06:53 AM
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Thanks, I am a little touchy on the subject lately. tongue3.gif I feel as if vb is less vegan-friendly than it was previously.

 

Really? As a vegetarian and not a vegan, I feel pretty much like an outsider on VB. From my perspective, both the vast majority of contributors to this site, and the overwhelming consensus, is vegan.

 

If anything, I get the feeling that this site is far less vegetarian-friendly than vegan-friendly - indeed I've failed to post so much since realising this is a vegan dominant site. Not because I dislike vegans (some of my best friends etc.) but because I'm aware that my lifestyle essentially isn't tolerated by the vegans on VB - or is maybe tolerated, but barely so.

 

Considering that there are far more vegetarians in the world than vegans, I imagine that the imbalance here on VB is more likely to be due to vegetarians feeling somewhat dominated by the vegan consensus here - an example of which as we've seen in this instance for example, vegan proselytising on the vegetarian support forums, which I find really rubs me up the wrong way. If I want to learn more about veganism (which I'm very much open to - I've begun cutting out all dairy (which basically means no more cheese for me as I don't use butter or cows milk) and am in the process of working on the baking thing with eggs) I'll look to the vegan fora - I don't want it pushed at me on the vegetarian support fora too, because just like most people, being pressured simply turns me off.

 

No offence intended to Foreveraspirit as I generally enjoy her postings and positive style - just making a point.


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#38 Old 08-03-2012, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 'IckenNoodleSoup View Post

 

Really? As a vegetarian and not a vegan, I feel pretty much like an outsider on VB. From my perspective, both the vast majority of contributors to this site, and the overwhelming consensus, is vegan.

 

If anything, I get the feeling that this site is far less vegetarian-friendly than vegan-friendly - indeed I've failed to post so much since realising this is a vegan dominant site. Not because I dislike vegans (some of my best friends etc.) but because I'm aware that my lifestyle essentially isn't tolerated by the vegans on VB - or is maybe tolerated, but barely so.

 

Considering that there are far more vegetarians in the world than vegans, I imagine that the imbalance here on VB is more likely to be due to vegetarians feeling somewhat dominated by the vegan consensus here - an example of which as we've seen in this instance for example, vegan proselytising on the vegetarian support forums, which I find really rubs me up the wrong way. If I want to learn more about veganism (which I'm very much open to - I've begun cutting out all dairy (which basically means no more cheese for me as I don't use butter or cows milk) and am in the process of working on the baking thing with eggs) I'll look to the vegan fora - I don't want it pushed at me on the vegetarian support fora too, because just like most people, being pressured simply turns me off.

 

No offence intended to Foreveraspirit as I generally enjoy her postings and positive style - just making a point.


No offensive taken ^_^ I'm just very passionate about animal rights and sometimes it ends up in places where it may not be the most appropriate place for it. It's possible that if vegans took over, vegetarians would go and make there own forum saying "No vegans allowed" and then it would be a war with veggies on vegans and everyone would be looking down on each other, and we'd all stay stuck in our own mindsets without too much questioning. I think here, both veggie and vegan friendly is good because it allows us to (hopefully) better be able to appreciate and be supportive of where everyone is at in the journey, and allows for better discussion and understanding between veggies and vegans ^_^

 

I understand your point about feeling maybe turned off, but I know sometimes others don't know and like to be made aware of things.  I'll try to keep my vegan ideologies over in the vegan forum. Come on over anytime!  ^_^

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#39 Old 08-04-2012, 08:24 AM
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Tom- Let's end the debate here since 4everaspirit can't defend his/her position in this thread. 

Okay. I'll delete my posts if necessary.

 

4everaspirit, I appreciate your posts. I hope I didn't come across as hostile, because I don;t feel that way.


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#40 Old 08-04-2012, 09:59 AM
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Okay. I'll delete my posts if necessary.

 

4everaspirit, I appreciate your posts. I hope I didn't come across as hostile, because I don;t feel that way.


No no. It's fine ^____^ Some people aren't as emoticon heavy when they respond to people, which can make it hard to determine tone on the internet,  but that doesn't mean they are hostile or angry or anything :) I just love emoticons though. broccoli.gif


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#41 Old 08-24-2015, 05:32 AM
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Talking Ahimsa Dairy

All debate regarding vegan vs vegetarian aside, I have found that living as a vegetarian who only consumes ahimsa dairy is great. Of course, milk consumption is very limited, so nut milks are used predominantly, but I am able to make my own cream cheese and mozzarella without sponsoring Kraft and Philadelphia. There are two sides to every coin, but if one will consume dairy, I urge to consume ahimsa.

I live in a Hare Krishna community and due to my religious position, cow protection is one of the most important principles. We have partnered with a small Amish farm outside of the city who uses cows for work. Although some find working cows to be cruel, I can assure that these cows are not worked to death and treated like family. I have seen in many animal species in my life that animals love companionship with humans and can feel fulfillment in helping their human companions. These cows are allowed to mate and reproduce freely and on their own terms. When the cows give birth to their calves, the calves are given all of the milk they want and the extra milk is then given gladly to the families in the Amish community.

We sponsor these cows and pay toward their "trust funds" as well as a donation toward sustaining the male cows in order to prevent these cows from ever taking slaughter or living in less-than-desirable conditions. The financial support helps the farm to guarantee the safety of their cows and allows our Hare Krishna community to take small amounts of dairy for our donation. The farm is happy, the cows are happy, my family is happy, God is happy.

Sure, there are many alternatives, environmental issues, possibilities of a growing problem, taking dairy on an unspoken agreement with the cows, etc.; but face it, this is a much better arrangement then the slaughter and mistreatment of cows word-wide. Is it "okay"? To me, it is a beautiful connection and bond between us. If I ever felt that I was taking something that wasn't given to me, I wouldn't do it. This is why I have given up meat and recently given up conventional dairy.

I hope this helps.
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#42 Old 08-24-2015, 08:22 AM
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if you can cut out dairy then that would be amazing honestly i don't believe in all these ethical/human/fair farming methods - at the end of the day we are still using these animals for our desires and benefits. They should be left be
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#43 Old 08-24-2015, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
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mod post : the vegetarian discussion forum is not the place to argue that dairy consumption is not okay or that vegetarians should go vegan. Keep in mind this is primarily intended to be a support forum for vegetarians. Vegans are welcome to post here too, but these types of discussions should be reserved for other areas of the site such as the compost heap.
 
the rules can be reviewed here: https://www.veggieboards.com/t/61578/...ior-to-posting
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