Do Vegans Secretly Disrespect Ovo-Lactos? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 03-24-2004, 11:14 AM
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I'm trying to be ovo-lacto, which I feel bad about. I mean I know that eating dairy and eggs hurts the animals as well as eating them themselves, but it would just be too difficult for me to go without them.



When I come here I seem to find more vegans than vegetarians. Anyway I was just wondering how the vegans feel about vegetarians. Do you think they aren't trying as hard etc?
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#2 Old 03-24-2004, 11:17 AM
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I'm speaking as a vegan.



First, it doesn't matter. You have made a personal decision, sticking with it no matter what people say is the most important thing.



Second, it depends. Not all vegans think the same. Some are for AR/AW and others for health. Some are snobby others are open minded. It just depends on the person.



I don't look down on anyone based on their eating habits. I think you're making an effort and thats great.



Keep on keepin' on.
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#3 Old 03-24-2004, 11:40 AM
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I agree with Kerouac. It depends on the individual.



Personally, I'm an ethical vegan, and I don't look down on ovo-lactos, or 'vegetarians' who still eat fish and/or chicken, or anyone who is simply trying to reduce their intake of animal products. It all helps, and I feel thankful to anyone who makes changes to their lifestyle, however small



You know, I think everyday that I could do more to help. Perhaps those vegans who reject all society and go live self-sufficient in the woods look down on me, but I'm not going to let that worry me. I do what I can.



It really doesn't matter what anyone else says. Don't ever let anyone make you feel that you're not good enough



You're doing great, MusicJudy
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#4 Old 03-24-2004, 11:50 AM
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As a vegan, I certainly never look down on someone who is "only" a vegetarian. You are still doing a whole lot more for animals than most people. Keep in mind that obtaining free-range eggs or organic dairy products are ways you can do even a little more while not fully taking the vegan plunge.



Vegetarianism is also a natural step on the path to veganism. I initially went vegetarian, thinking there was no way in hell I'd go vegan. After learning more, though, and shopping in veg-friendly stores, I realized that it could be done. I went vegan and have never looked back. That doesn't mean that you'll be inspired to go vegan at some point down the line, but you may surprise yourself.
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#5 Old 03-24-2004, 11:53 AM
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I'm vegan, but classify myself instead as "someone who doesn't use animal products" because some vegans have hurt the definition by self-righteous behavior, and I don't like to be associated with people who live to judge others, and sadly, many vegans do.



Some vegans are awesome and some are really putzes.....

you'll find meanies in all groups of humans.



Enjoy your journey, and don't be put off by what other's think of you.

If they look down on you, then they aren't being vegan, either - considering that ethical veganism is about compassion and kindness toward all.





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#6 Old 03-24-2004, 11:55 AM
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I applaud your decision. Whether or not you ever transition to a vegan-ish diet, you're still doing a lot of good for yourself and your environment.



I've met some vegans that try to put themselves above you on the "vegan scale" (e.g., "you're not really vegan because you still eat refined sugar and animals are used for that") but I haven't seen any of those people here.



Funny that we've seen a lot of threads on variations of this topic, though. I'm too lazy to wade back through, but there was even a thread that facetiously compared these types of vegans to hardline religious right wingers.



No matter what you do, some self-righteous clod out there is going to think you're wrong. But it's not profitable to concern yourself with that person.
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#7 Old 03-24-2004, 12:04 PM
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I'm Christian, and the comparison between self-righteous, hypocritical and judgmental people in my religion and self-righteous, judgmental vegans is very, very similar. Both make me sick at my stomach.



The behavior makes me sick, not the people. The people themselves are, like all of us, mostly nice down deep, but with layers of scar tissue.

Some people just act out their negative tendencies toward others and some of us deal with our dirty laundry quietly....
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#8 Old 03-24-2004, 12:08 PM
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Yes, there is a degree of vegan snobbery both on VB and in real life. It's a fact of any subculture. *shrug* (Goths, bodybuilders, preppie kids, game geeks *fill in your favorite subculture) I'm just a lowly old health vegetarian. I don't give a sh*t what people on this board or IRL think of me or my diet. I spent way too much time in my youth worrying about how "vegetarian" I am. It's a waste of time IMHO.



What Kerouac said, "Keep on Keepin' on.
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#9 Old 03-24-2004, 12:30 PM
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I'm a vegan, for animal rights issues foremost, and for environment/world health/etc issues secondary, but they're still there. Of course, I wish that everyone in the world was vegan. Not only because life would be a lot easier but becuase I feel bad that people still eat or use or abuse animals (if not doing it themselves, at least with their money paying for it).



Does that mean I look down on anyone? No. I think the closest thing would be to say, I am very saddened by the people who say "I know this is all horrible, but I don't feel I can do anything about it," and don't try to do ANYTHING about it. (Well, I guess I sorta do look down on people who say "Animals were made for this, shut up" type of things.. but that's different I suppose..)



Anyone who looks at what's really going on in the world, and tries to do SOMETHING about it.. whether it's a little or a lot.. whether it's lessening the amount of animals they eat, stopping eating some, only eating hunted or free range, only eating eggs and milk, whatever... is A+ in my books.



As long as you can look at something going on, see that it's wrong, and do SOMETHING, even the tiniest thing, about it... that's something. That's what life is all about.



Just because I am able, for whatever our reasons, to give up more stuff than you, doesn't make you less of a good person than me, or anything silly like that. You're doing what you can do right now, and you CARE. That's what is important.



One day, when it's as easy to be vegan as to be an omni, I'll say "suck it up and go vegan already! stop jerkin' around!" .. but until then.. do as much as you feel comfortable with, and don't be adverse to change: but do what you can do where you are right now. That's what is the most important thing to do.



Best of luck! I know you'll be a great veg.
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#10 Old 03-24-2004, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicJudy View Post

I'm trying to be ovo-lacto, which I feel bad about. I mean I know that eating dairy and eggs hurts the animals as well as eating them themselves, but it would just be too difficulf for me to go without them.



When I come here I seem to find more vegans than vegetarians. Anyway I was just wondering how the vegans feel about vegetarians. Do you think they aren't trying as hard etc?



I don't disrespect you for being ovo-lacto, but I sure don't understand how you can feel bad about it and continue eating ovo-lacto because it would be "too difficult for (you) to go without (dairy and eggs)." Now, if you have serious problems that prevent you from eliminating those items from your diet, then don't feel guilty about it; you have little choice. However, if it's only difficult in the sense of convenience, then I can imagine why you'd feel bad about that. Maybe it's your own conscience telling you what to do. Ultimately you answer to it, and not to me or anyone else that promotes a vegan lifestyle.
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#11 Old 03-24-2004, 12:38 PM
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I think the answer is yes, some do. Being a lacto-ovo vegetarian, I sometimes think things to myself about omnivores I run across in life. I can't help it. In 98% of the cases, I wouldn't say anything. When my husband asks why it stinks in the meat section of the store, you best believe I'll say, "Oh, I don't know. Maybe because of the rotting carcasses?" (Sorry, I couldn't help myself on that one.)



I'm just waiting for someone (vegan) to be honest about it.
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#12 Old 03-24-2004, 12:39 PM
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I don't at all. I think a vegetarian is awesome, and am more than giddy that they don't eat meat. Personally, I think giving up meat and leather are the two best things a person can do. If you want to give up dairy, more power to you. If not, thank you for not eating dead animals! You Rock! hehe
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#13 Old 03-24-2004, 01:05 PM
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I don't judge you. As others have said, it's great that you're eating fewer animal products than most people, and you really should only worry about what you think of your behavior. I find it interesting that people are always complaining about self-righteous vegans when the majority of people who responded to you so far haven't been judgemental at all!
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#14 Old 03-24-2004, 01:07 PM
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I guess this won't get a selection of replies that would truly reflect the situation, since replies answering affirmatively to the question would probably get a "this is a support forum. please keep it civil" note from a moderator .



As for my view, I see veganism (understood here as just a general disposition to avoid supporting the exploitation of animals) as a moral obligation, because I think animals have rights - when there are rights, there are correlative obligations. That's pretty much what I think about veganism (note: strictly speaking, I'm not a vegan, although I guess many could categorize me as such). What I think of each particular ovo-lacto-vegetarian depends on the individual in question, so I can't really say what I generally think of vegetarians, other than that 1) it's really great that they're trying to do something to help non-human animals 2) I would like the situation more if they were vegans.

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upon a mountain

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#15 Old 03-24-2004, 01:23 PM
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(Another ovo/lacto ) We're doing the best we can and improving each day, aren't we? That's what matters. If someone puts you down for not making enough of an effort (omnis and other veggies will point out your flaws too), don't say anything, remember that they too are human and therefore not perfect, and remember all the vegans and veggies who are on here cheering for you!



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#16 Old 03-24-2004, 01:24 PM
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Some do, some don't. And I'm sure sometimes vegetarians feel as though they're being "looked down upon" even when they're not.



I'm a vegetarian, I sometimes feel guilt but it has everything to do with the animals and nothing to do with other people. In fact, those types often have the opposite effect on me - they make me want to go out and get a hamburger. And if I feel that way I can only imagine how other people perceive them.



People who put others down often have their own issues they need to work through.

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#17 Old 03-24-2004, 01:27 PM
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I'm vegan, but I was a vegetarian for seven years before that. I just evolved when the time was right for me.
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#18 Old 03-24-2004, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

2) I would like the situation more if they were vegans



Of course you would. I would too. Some veggies transitioning would love to be perfect. But if we could just be instantaneously perfect, there would be no reason for us to transition. (You seem to acknowledge this somewhat by saying you're not a vegan in the strictest sense.) It looks like MusicJudy needs encouragement to continue on her path, so she's probably headed in your direction.



(This comment is not aimed at you.) When people harshly criticize others, it often has the opposite effect it should have. For example, I've always been a little obese. I said to some friends, "I think if I could just start out by burning 200 calories each time I go in, I would begin to lose some weight." They replied, "Are you kidding? All that fat on you? You need to burn at least 1000 calories each time!" I remembered what hard work it was just trying to burn the 200 starting out, so I concluded it was all futile, and I did not return to the gymn for a couple of years.

Being critical does not draw others to your cause. It drives them away.
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#19 Old 03-24-2004, 02:05 PM
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No - at least I don't! I was ovo-lacto before going lacto before going vegan. I ate meat when I was really little too. I'd be hypocritical and a little arrogant to have disdain for someone simply because they were not where I am at this moment...



Not only that...a lacto-ovo veggie is displaying that they are trying, and care maybe about animal rights, and ARE making these changes. Taking it slowly is wise too. What if you got sick? That wouldn't look good for vegetarianism or veganism.



Good luck! A nay to your question over here...



*Linzey*
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#20 Old 03-24-2004, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

I guess this won't get a selection of replies that would truly reflect the situation, since replies answering affirmatively to the question would probably get a "this is a support forum. please keep it civil" note from a moderator



I agree with you that more of a broad, perhaps more of an honest response would have been had if this had been posted in The Compost Heap. I think that the policing however would mainly come from self-policing by people who recognize that this is a support forum... With a question like that, I think the moderators would probably leave well enough alone unless insults started getting thrown around.



Jim



PS - I'm not suggesting this be moved, because MusicJudy just joined a few days ago and I wouldn't suggest a Compost Heap style discussion for any new vegetarians at VB... It was only with the calming words of kpickell that I didn't leave soon after I got here with the arguments that started in my threads. I think that's one of the wonderful things that the older members can do is let the new members understand that sometimes things get a little heated but that's just the nature of the internet forum beast. As a newbie myself, I appreciated it.
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#21 Old 03-24-2004, 02:13 PM
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I guess some of it could be from the fact that the vegans are slightly spiteful of the ovo-lactos abilities to eat ice cream, cheese, omlettes, and the like without a huge moral dilemma. I don't mean that all vegans want to eat dairy and eggs, but I know from my own experience that I was insanely jealous when my ovo-lacto friend was eating cookie dough ice cream, which once was my favorite food but now I can't even think of eating it without being haunted by thoughts of those poor cows and chickens. I also don't think this counts for all snobbery within the vegetarian to vegan range, but it could be a subtle factor.

Just a thought.
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#22 Old 03-24-2004, 02:22 PM
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speaking as an ethical vegan, I'm happy to meet someone who's a vegetarian at all.



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#23 Old 03-24-2004, 02:44 PM
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Wow, that's a loaded questions.

I'll just speak for myself, I'm a vegan (albeit, not a strict one), and I think it's great when I see ovo-lacto vegetarians, or even a pescatarian. I wish all people had the will-power to abstain from meat. So, no, I don't look down on vegetarians, they're doing a good job.
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#24 Old 03-24-2004, 02:57 PM
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My views on the matter are no "secret."



Further, I certainly am not jealous of somebody who causes suffering to animals, nor do I want food that causes the same.
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#25 Old 03-24-2004, 03:26 PM
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I guess some of it could be from the fact that the vegans are slightly spiteful of the ovo-lactos abilities to eat ice cream, cheese, omlettes, and the like without a huge moral dilemma







Well, first of all, hen's egg's are extremely gross and unhealthy so I personally would never want to eat such a disgusting "food". The same goes for animal milk products. Second, there are enough vegan ice creams, milks and cheeses which taste eons better than the animal derived ones. So, to answer this assumption, this vegan definately is not spiteful. In fact, I tend to think lacto-ovo's are the ones who are spiteful; since they have to suffer through eating all that nasty food while contributing to the abuse of animals and the deterioration of their health. I feel many people just do not have the will power to give up such "food" even though doing so will allow them to reap the many benefits of a healthier lifestyle.



Now, do I secretly disrespect them ... NO! I do not have to do that in secret.
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#26 Old 03-24-2004, 03:41 PM
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Hehehe...I know so few vegetarians IRL that I get really excited when I meet one! Heck, it took me 14 years to go from being a vegetarian to being a vegan; betcha you'll beat my time!
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#27 Old 03-24-2004, 03:58 PM
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Second, there are enough vegan ice creams, milks and cheeses which taste eons better than the animal derived ones.







I keep trying them but so far all of them are imitations of crap that feel like crap on the tounge, taste like crap going down and with a crap aftertaste.



I suspect that people will still perceive veganism as an uncomfortable loss as long as vegans continue to push crap substitutes. There is a universe of good eats that does not involve stuff that is, or attempts to be eggs, milk and cheese.
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#28 Old 03-24-2004, 04:10 PM
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No I don't look down on vegetarians, MusicJudy - you're doing a great job. In an 'ideal' world we'd all be 100% vegan but that's not the way it is. Even those of us who are vegan aren't 'perfect' at it. Everyone who reduces animal suffering in anyway with their lifestyle is doing great.



Besides, most of us who are vegan were lacto-ovo first and meat-eaters before that so it would be hypocritical to criticise. If you decide to go vegan eventually then great! If not not then you're still doing great and you'll get a lot of supprt here.





Kerry x
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#29 Old 03-24-2004, 04:12 PM
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I keep trying them but so far all of them are imitations of crap that feel like crap on the tounge, taste like crap going down and with a crap aftertaste.



Everybody lives in a different taste world. I think some vegan subs are better than others. I know a omni guy who thinks Quorn is better than real chicken.



Anyway... I'm not disrespectful or resentful of lacto-ovos. I'm happy when anyone decides to eat less animal.
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#30 Old 03-24-2004, 04:21 PM
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I suspect that people will still perceive veganism as an uncomfortable loss as long as vegans continue to push crap substitutes. There is a universe of good eats that does not involve stuff that is, or attempts to be eggs, milk and cheese.



No argument here, although I do eat the imitation products on occasion and like the taste of them. I much rather prefer all the yummy non-processed vegan delights.
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