Stupid Things Omnivores Say, Version 5.0 - Page 132 - VeggieBoards
Forum Jump: 
 265Likes
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
#3931 Old 04-14-2012, 05:14 AM
...
 
Blobbenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,936
yes, if peta did anything it could advertise that veg*ns don't eat animal flesh.

Blobbenstein is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#3932 Old 04-15-2012, 10:21 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 10,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel Bonneau View Post

at least that means he's killed for a reason, as gross as it is. my mom told me the other day she uses beer in her garden to drown slugs and snails apparently picking them up and moving them is too hard or something.

Well, it is definitely more time consuming, harder, to pick up slugs and move them, then it is to set effective traps for them. A small garden could have 1000's of slugs in it, most of them hidden behind foliage. Well planned traps will draw out the hidden slugs and prevent a substantial number of them from damaging foliage. You won't be able to pick up and move hidden snails, not even after they've provided evidence of where they were, by leaving holes in foliage, many times their size. They'll be hidden while they are eating, and gone by time you find the holes they've made.

With slugs, if you go out in the middle of the night, when they are active, you will see them munching (if you look on the hidden underside of leaves) but by morning they'll be in hiding, elsewhere. However well you can see them at night, with a flashlight, it is impossible to remove sufficient numbers by hand, to make a difference. You'd have to be up all night, racing to grab as many as you can before dawn, and you'd still barely make a dent in their leafy-green consumption. Plus due to their slime, they are hard to grasp with your fingers. Any tool that you can effectively use to grasp them, such as a medium sized forceps, also injures them. A tiny slug, an 1/8 of an inch long, turns into an inch-long slug in a few days - by eating huge quantities of lettuce and endive. You have to pick off all the 1000's of tiny 1/8 inch and smaller slugs, while they are still small, to do any significant damage control. An impossible task. The big slugs - I don't know if they've already laid eggs or not. But by time they are big, the damage is already done.

Picking them up and moving them away from your garden, or killing them, is hopeless. Trapping is maybe a little better, but prevention is better than trapping. I'm not sure about snails, but I prevented slugs from eating my leafy greens, by making sure the leafy greens were not planted near my compost piles, and not using tree leaves as mulch, for leafy greens. You also need to avoid excessive surface moisture. Frequent watering, in relatively small amounts, encourages slugs more than does less frequent watering, with larger amounts of water.
soilman is offline  
#3933 Old 04-15-2012, 10:47 AM
Newbie
 
hotcooknmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 49
Condescending meat-thusiast in-law, in tones of great concern, regarding plate of hash browns: "Now, Tanya, do you eat potatoes?"

Me (well, ok, this was only said in my head): "Unless it was scraped, squeezed, sliced, or otherwise extracted from a living or dead animal, yes; but if YOU made it, then no! because I'm quite sure you've worked in some bacon."

Seriously: do people actually not know that potatoes come from plants? or is she just an obnoxious person? ... or perhaps a combination of the two factors?!

Seriously overweight SAD eating coworker yesterday tried to tell me I should drink (cow's) milk. I said, nah, pass: I'm a GROWN mammal, been off the breast milk for ages. She argued -- I could not make this up -- that it's not really milk from a cow, after it's processed and bottled. <blink; eyebrows down; confused look>

Her evident belief is that cow's milk is not 'really' milk once it's packaged to sell... this is an educated person, in a director's position at the rehabilitation facility where I work. Kinda boggled my noodle! Just hafta shake my head and walk away, at that point: this is like a religious belief or something-- we've clearly left reality-based discussion far behind. :-P
Purp likes this.
hotcooknmama is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#3934 Old 04-15-2012, 10:49 AM
Veggie Regular
 
vegkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the depths of N'Kai
Posts: 3,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

Well, it is definitely more time consuming, harder, to pick up slugs and move them, then it is to set effective traps for them. A small garden could have 1000's of slugs in it, most of them hidden behind foliage. Well planned traps will draw out the hidden slugs and prevent a substantial number of them from damaging foliage. You won't be able to pick up and move hidden snails, not even after they've provided evidence of where they were, by leaving holes in foliage, many times their size. They'll be hidden while they are eating, and gone by time you find the holes they've made.

With slugs, if you go out in the middle of the night, when they are active, you will see them munching (if you look on the hidden underside of leaves) but by morning they'll be in hiding, elsewhere. However well you can see them at night, with a flashlight, it is impossible to remove sufficient numbers by hand, to make a difference. You'd have to be up all night, racing to grab as many as you can before dawn, and you'd still barely make a dent in their leafy-green consumption. Plus due to their slime, they are hard to grasp with your fingers. Any tool that you can effectively use to grasp them, such as a medium sized forceps, also injures them. A tiny slug, an 1/8 of an inch long, turns into an inch-long slug in a few days - by eating huge quantities of lettuce and endive. You have to pick off all the 1000's of tiny 1/8 inch and smaller slugs, while they are still small, to do any significant damage control. An impossible task. The big slugs - I don't know if they've already laid eggs or not. But by time they are big, the damage is already done.

Picking them up and moving them away from your garden, or killing them, is hopeless. Trapping is maybe a little better, but prevention is better than trapping. I'm not sure about snails, but I prevented slugs from eating my leafy greens, by making sure the leafy greens were not planted near my compost piles, and not using tree leaves as mulch, for leafy greens. You also need to avoid excessive surface moisture. Frequent watering, in relatively small amounts, encourages slugs more than does less frequent watering, with larger amounts of water.

One can still set up an efficient no-kill trap with little more than a jar and some store-bought lettuce.
Purp likes this.

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

vegkid is offline  
#3935 Old 04-15-2012, 10:52 AM
Veggie Regular
 
vegkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the depths of N'Kai
Posts: 3,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotcooknmama View Post

Condescending meat-thusiast in-law, in tones of great concern, regarding plate of hash browns: "Now, Tanya, do you eat potatoes?"

Me (well, ok, this was only said in my head): "Unless it was scraped, squeezed, sliced, or otherwise extracted from a living or dead animal, yes; but if YOU made it, then no! because I'm quite sure you've worked in some bacon."

Seriously: do people actually not know that potatoes come from plants? or is she just an obnoxious person? ... or perhaps a combination of the two factors?!

Seriously overweight SAD eating coworker yesterday tried to tell me I should drink (cow's) milk. I said, nah, pass: I'm a GROWN mammal, been off the breast milk for ages. She argued -- I could not make this up -- that it's not really milk from a cow, after it's processed and bottled. <blink; eyebrows down; confused look>

Her evident belief is that cow's milk is not 'really' milk once it's packaged to sell... this is an educated person, in a director's position at the rehabilitation facility where I work. Kinda boggled my noodle! Just hafta shake my head and walk away, at that point: this is like a religious belief or something-- we've clearly left reality-based discussion far behind. :-P

If anything, the fact that it's so processed and nasty should just deter people more.

And yet there are people who use the exact opposite argument to justify drinking milk.

People confuse me sometimes...
Purp likes this.

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

vegkid is offline  
#3936 Old 04-15-2012, 11:31 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 10,763
I have not had much success trapping slugs. They seem to prefer my own near-organically grown lettuce to store bought lettuce of any kind. Lets say you have 2 rows of lettuce, 10 feet long, with 1 head every foot, and thus have about 18 heads of lettuce growing. You'd trap maybe about 1/2 of the slugs, at most, if you had 18 traps, with 1 small head of lettuce in each trap. Kind of defeats the purpose of growing your own lettuce, if you have to buy just as much lettuce. Anyway, it seems they just can tell which lettuce is growng out of the ground, and prefer it. Picking slugs off, at night, with one person working, from 18 heads, could take about 9 hours - in other words you wouldn't have time. Yes you'd need about 1/2 hour to find most of the slugs on each head. (Some of them are nearly microscopic; they will become 1/4 inch long the next day; turn your whole head of lettuce into a mess, within 2 days.) You could do it this way, but it will consume your whole life. Better to do prevention.

Then the question becomes what do you do with all those slugs you've picked off, or trapped? Really? Put them in a car and drive 2 miles away to dump them? Where? They are in your garden because neat rows of exactly the plant they like, at exactly the growth stage they like, are all neatly set out for them, one next to the other. They arrive, then they reproduce. They are in your garden, in large numbers, only because the existence of your garden enabled them to do this. The only away to prevent them from starving, is to put them in someone else's garden with the same lettuce for them, at the same stage of growth. Dumping them in the woods is going to cause most of them to starve to death. 18 plants worth of slugs will find maybe 1 plant that they can use. They'll eat the whole plant, and maybe eff up the ecosystem where you dumped them. You already effed up an ecosystem, by having a garden, that allowed them to over populate. Moving them somewhere else is going to do the same thing, wherever you move them. It just might be more humane to somehow kill them quickly. I honestly can't remember what I did with the slugs I picked off. Oh, now I remember. I dug a hole, about 3/4 foot deep by 1.5 feet in diameter, put them in the hole, and put kosher salt on them. I learned this method from organic gardening books. This made me feel ill, but I couldn't figure out a better way to kill them. If someone knows a more humane way to kill them, please let me know. After they died (took several hours) I dug them up and put them in the trash can, to be brought to the landfill where the rest of my garbage goes. I'm fairly well convinced that bringing them anywhere else, while alive, other than someone else's lettuce garden, at least as big as the one they were removed from, and with the same plants in the same stage of development, is less humane than killing them. Then I made sure I learned as much as I could, about prevention, so that I wouldn't have this problem of how to kill slugs, next year, to begin with.

I should remind you that an 1/8 inch long slug can leave a large hole in a lettuce leaf, about an inch in diameter. Further, there is some kind of process where an even larger area, next to the hole, turns slightly brownish, and develops an off-flavor. Maybe 2 square inches of leaf damaged by one little 1/8 inch long slug. The same size yellow area can develop, next to a much smaller hole. If you eat store-bought leaf lettuce, you have undoubtedly seen, and probably tasted, these yellow spots, without realizing what they are. Slugs are a frequent garden problem for leafy greens. Mature, outer leaves will survive a few small holes, leaving you plenty of inner leaves to eat, but if the slugs get into young, inner leaves, you have a mess, and a head that stops growing. Slugs are unavoidable. With effective control methods, they do a little damage, to outer leaves, as opposed to a lot of damage.
soilman is offline  
#3937 Old 04-15-2012, 12:58 PM
Veggie Regular
 
vegkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the depths of N'Kai
Posts: 3,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

I have not had much success trapping slugs. They seem to prefer my own near-organically grown lettuce to store bought lettuce of any kind. Lets say you have 2 rows of lettuce, 10 feet long, with 1 head every foot, and thus have about 18 heads of lettuce growing. You'd trap maybe about 1/2 of the slugs, at most, if you had 18 traps, with 1 small head of lettuce in each trap. Kind of defeats the purpose of growing your own lettuce, if you have to buy just as much lettuce. Anyway, it seems they just can tell which lettuce is growng out of the ground, and prefer it. Picking slugs off, at night, with one person working, from 18 heads, could take about 9 hours - in other words you wouldn't have time. Yes you'd need about 1/2 hour to find most of the slugs on each head. (Some of them are nearly microscopic; they will become 1/4 inch long the next day; turn your whole head of lettuce into a mess, within 2 days.) You could do it this way, but it will consume your whole life. Better to do prevention.

Okay, fair enough. I understand how much of a "pest" they can be and how hard it is to get rid of them.

Quote:
Then the question becomes what do you do with all those slugs you've picked off, or trapped? Really? Put them in a car and drive 2 miles away to dump them? Where? They are in your garden because neat rows of exactly the plant they like, at exactly the growth stage they like, are all neatly set out for them, one next to the other. They arrive, then they reproduce. They are in your garden, in large numbers, only because the existence of your garden enabled them to do this. The only away to prevent them from starving, is to put them in someone else's garden with the same lettuce for them, at the same stage of growth. Dumping them in the woods is going to cause most of them to starve to death. 18 plants worth of slugs will find maybe 1 plant that they can use. They'll eat the whole plant, and maybe eff up the ecosystem where you dumped them. You already effed up an ecosystem, by having a garden, that allowed them to over populate.

Yeah. You already effed up an ecosystem by having a garden. If you're already interfering, it seems like common courtesy to, you know, NOT kill the inhabitants of the ecosystem you effed up for effing up your effed up ecosystem.

Quote:
Moving them somewhere else is going to do the same thing, wherever you move them. It just might be more humane to somehow kill them quickly. I honestly can't remember what I did with the slugs I picked off. Oh, now I remember. I dug a hole, about 3/4 foot deep by 1.5 feet in diameter, put them in the hole, and put kosher salt on them. I learned this method from organic gardening books. This made me feel ill, but I couldn't figure out a better way to kill them. If someone knows a more humane way to kill them, please let me know.

And here's where it got me. What!? You're the same Soilman that was complaining about the idea that there might be some chemically traced animal ingredients in some types of organic fertilizer? And here you are causing one of the most gruesomely painful deaths possible for this kind of creature because they did exactly what their brains told them to do. Dude. You do understand what pouring salt on them does to them, right? Slugs are made mostly of water, and by that I mean almost entirely. Salt takes the water from the cells of the slug. When you take away the water from something made almost entirely of water... I can't even imagine how painful that is. I don't accept the idea that slugs don't feel pain - I had many slugs and snails as pets as a kid, and I've seen their actions enough to understand them quite a bit. I suppose there's always the possibility of them being soulless automatons that only react instinctively to stimuli, but isn't being vegan all about giving that benefit of the doubt?

Quote:
After they died (took several hours)

Well, gee, that's gotta be fun!

Quote:
I dug them up and put them in the trash can, to be brought to the landfill where the rest of my garbage goes. I'm fairly well convinced that bringing them anywhere else, while alive, other than someone else's lettuce garden, at least as big as the one they were removed from, and with the same plants in the same stage of development, is less humane than killing them. Then I made sure I learned as much as I could, about prevention, so that I wouldn't have this problem of how to kill slugs, next year, to begin with.

First, of all, maybe, you should, try to, use less, commas, because, it makes more sense, when you, use them, in the places, they're supposed to be used. But I'm not going to turn this into a debate of punctuation, because it's really not worth my time.

As for the idea of letting them go, the answer is that they will survive just fine. What, do you think that when you created your garden, a bunch of slugs that could only feed on your type of lettuce at its current growth stage popped out of nowhere? They can eat it, but surely they lived just fine on other plants before you "effed up the ecosystem". And if you're so worried about effing up the ecosystem they'd be let go into (which makes little sense, since if you live in an area with slugs they probably already live everywhere near you) then why did you eff up your ecosystem in the first place? Effing up an ecosystem can only lead to effing up more ecosystems.

Quote:
I should remind you that an 1/8 inch long slug can leave a large hole in a lettuce leaf, about an inch in diameter. Further, there is some kind of process where an even larger area, next to the hole, turns slightly

Yeah, yeah, the damage can be devastating, I know all about it. My position still stands, though.

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

vegkid is offline  
#3938 Old 04-15-2012, 01:03 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Envy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Heaven
Posts: 6,548
As opposed to effing up the ecosystem somewhere else?

"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
Envy is offline  
#3939 Old 04-15-2012, 01:51 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 10,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegkid View Post

they will survive just fine.

You are mistaken. Only a tiny fraction of them would survive, outside the artificial environment which allowed them to over-grow, that allowed a larger percentage of them than normal to survive long enough to reach noticeable size.

You say salting them is painful, and that may be so, but you don't offer an alternative.

I am unhappy that I felt it necessary to kill them, in order to feed myself. But instead of offering a practical alternative, you are simply protesting my actions.

My philosophy is not to kill or harm any animals unnecessarily, that is, for no good reason. And I think there is no good reason for feeding food that humans can eat, to animals, and then killing and eating the animals. But killing animals that are competing for the same food that I want to eat, is a different story. So yes, I don't want people to feed human-usable food to cattle and pigs, and then sell me cattle poop and pig poop to help them make this pre-planned mass slaughter a profitable operation for them. Also, these being mammals, their poop is a disease vector, and toxic substance concentrator. Better to take the food being fed to the cattle, and simply compost it, in a pile, rather than using a cow's digestive system as a compost bin. But if a pig or cow escapes from their feed lot and gets into my garden and decides to eat the plants I am growing for myself, killing the animal in order to prevent that is an entirely different story.

If I had a human way to kill slugs, and a way that didn't use a substance that is toxic to the soil, like salt, i would simply have thrown their bodies into one of my (3 or more) compost piles.
soilman is offline  
#3940 Old 04-15-2012, 02:16 PM
Veggie Regular
 
vegkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the depths of N'Kai
Posts: 3,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

You are mistaken. Only a tiny fraction of them would survive, outside the artificial environment which allowed them to over-grow, that allowed a larger percentage of them than normal to survive long enough to reach noticeable size.

You say salting them is painful, and that may be so, but you don't offer an alternative.

I am unhappy that I felt it necessary to kill them, in order to feed myself. But instead of offering a practical alternative, you are simply protesting my actions.

My philosophy is not to kill or harm any animals unnecessarily, that is, for no good reason. And I think there is no good reason for feeding food that humans can eat, to animals, and then killing and eating the animals. But killing animals that are competing for the same food that I want to eat, is a different story. So yes, I don't want people to feed human-usable food to cattle and pigs, and then sell me cattle poop and pig poop to help them make this pre-planned mass slaughter a profitable operation for them. Also, these being mammals, their poop is a disease vector, and toxic substance concentrator. Better to take the food being fed to the cattle, and simply compost it, in a pile, rather than using a cow's digestive system as a compost bin. But if a pig or cow escapes from their feed lot and gets into my garden and decides to eat the plants I am growing for myself, killing the animal in order to prevent that is an entirely different story.

Do you live in a location where your garden is your only available source of food?

If not, then the whole thing is unnecessary in the first place, making any ethical problems that arise from it also unnecessary.

I do not have to give a "more humane alternative" because killing them in the first place is the behavior that should be stopped.

But, hey, look on the bright side - as you were typing up your response I saved five snails from the sidewalk.

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

vegkid is offline  
#3941 Old 04-15-2012, 02:30 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 10,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegkid View Post

Do you live in a location where your garden is your only available source of food?

If not, then the whole thing is unnecessary in the first place, making any ethical problems that arise from it also unnecessary.

I do not have to give a "more humane alternative" because killing them in the first place is the behavior that should be stopped.

But, hey, look on the bright side - as you were typing up your response I saved five snails from the sidewalk.

For most of the slugs, yes, exactly, my garden would have been the only available source of food. Moving them from my garden to a nearby wood, would have undoubted resulted in the premature death of most of them. By moving them, I would have been killing them by starving them.

I don't know the numbers, but a garden supports many more slugs per square foot than a wood. Just the moisture alone, which is controlled in a garden, and less predictable in the wood, and is one of the main reasons why gardens support so many slugs, would mean that many of the slugs that would have had enough water, had they stayed in the garden, would not find enough water to survive, in the wood. They would dehydrate slowly, over the course of many hours. Only a few of the slugs, that had an inherited advantage over the other slugs, in regard to resisting dehydration, would survive in the wood. If rain was unusually infrequent, almost all of them might have been killed - just like almost all of my lettuce plants would have been killed.
soilman is offline  
#3942 Old 04-15-2012, 02:44 PM
Veggie Regular
 
vegkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the depths of N'Kai
Posts: 3,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

For most of the slugs, yes, exactly, my garden would have been the only available source of food. Moving them from my garden to a nearby wood, would have undoubted resulted in the premature death of most of them. By moving them, I would have been killing them by starving them.

I'm not talking about the slugs, I'm talking about you. Slugs eat damn near everything.

Quote:
I don't know the numbers, but a garden supports many more slugs per square foot than a wood. Just the moisture alone, which is controlled in a garden, and less predictable in the wood, and is one of the main reasons why gardens support so many slugs, would mean that many of the slugs that would have had enough water, had they stayed in the garden, would not find enough water to survive, in the wood. They would dehydrate slowly, over the course of many hours. Only a few of the slugs, that had an inherited advantage over the other slugs, in regard to resisting dehydration, would survive in the wood. If rain was unusually infrequent, almost all of them might have been killed - just like almost all of my lettuce plants would have been killed.

You know what MIGHT kill slugs? Letting them go in the woods. You know what DEFINITELY kills slugs? Putting them in a hole and dumping salt on them.

But I'd like you to answer the actual question I was asking - do you need this lettuce garden to survive?

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

vegkid is offline  
#3943 Old 04-15-2012, 02:51 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 10,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegkid View Post

Do you live in a location where your garden is your only available source of food?

If not, then the whole thing is unnecessary in the first place, making any ethical problems that arise from it also unnecessary.

I do not have to give a "more humane alternative" because killing them in the first place is the behavior that should be stopped.

But, hey, look on the bright side - as you were typing up your response I saved five snails from the sidewalk.

You don't have do anything, but the moment you come up with a more humane alternative, I will switch to it, otherwise I will use my current method. By not giving me a more humane alternative, you are causing slugs to die a more painful death than they otherwise would. Now who's being mean to slugs, huh? Meanie.
soilman is offline  
#3944 Old 04-15-2012, 02:53 PM
Veggie Regular
 
vegkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the depths of N'Kai
Posts: 3,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

You don't have do anything, but the moment you come up with a more humane alternative, I will switch to it, otherwise I will use my current method. By not giving me a more humane alternative, you are causing slugs to die a more painful death than they otherwise would. Now whose being mean to slugs, huh?

I already told you: dump them in the woods. It all comes down to laziness.

Now are you going to answer my question or not? It's kind of essential.

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

vegkid is offline  
#3945 Old 04-15-2012, 02:59 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 10,763
It would have been easier to dump them in the woods than to salt them, and then dig them up later and bring them to the garbage can.
soilman is offline  
#3946 Old 04-15-2012, 03:00 PM
Veggie Regular
 
vegkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the depths of N'Kai
Posts: 3,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

It would have been easier to dump them in the woods than to salt them, and then dig them up later and bring them to the garbage can.

Then why didn't you just dump them in the woods?

Are you going to answer my question? I've asked it like three times now:

Do you live in an area or live under conditions in which growing your lettuce is the only solution to staving off hunger?

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

vegkid is offline  
#3947 Old 04-15-2012, 03:03 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 10,763
Why don't I give them to you? Do you pick up?
soilman is offline  
#3948 Old 04-15-2012, 03:05 PM
Veggie Regular
 
vegkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the depths of N'Kai
Posts: 3,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

Why don't I give them to you? Do you pick up?

Why don't you stop evading the question?

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

vegkid is offline  
#3949 Old 04-15-2012, 03:07 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 10,763
I'm evading the question? When are you going to tell me whether you pick up or not?
soilman is offline  
#3950 Old 04-15-2012, 03:10 PM
Veggie Regular
 
vegkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the depths of N'Kai
Posts: 3,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

I'm evading the question? When are you going to tell me whether you pick up or not?

No, I don't, I'm fifteen. I can't exactly accept shipments of slugs from a 48-year-old over the internet.

Now, answer my question that I have asked you four times now.

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

vegkid is offline  
#3951 Old 04-15-2012, 11:15 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Spoonerism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 966
*I'm at work trying to eat. Some guy sees my subway sandwich*
Guy: What kind of sandwich did you get?
Me: (reluctantly) Veggie Delite
*He predictably makes a weird face*
Me: I don't eat meat.
Guy: That's not healthy.
Me: What isn't?
Guy: The human body is designed for meat.
Me: Says who?
Guy: (faltering slightly): Meat has nutrition our body needs.
Me: There's nothing in meat you can't get from vegetables, except vitamin b-12 and there are plenty of non-vegetarians who have that deficiency anyway.
Guy: Vitamin B-12 (I said that already...) and protein.
Me: You can get protein from vegetables.
Guy: Soy maybe
Me: Yea and vegetables. Even without soy it's easy.
Guy: Go eat a hamburger.
Me: No....

I can tell my vegetarianism is going to be a thing with this guy now. He'll probably bring it up every time I see him.
Purp likes this.

"I am a woman of science. At least that's what my horoscope said."
Spoonerism is offline  
#3952 Old 04-15-2012, 11:24 PM
Veggie Regular
 
AlixJ18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoonerism View Post

*I'm at work trying to eat. Some guy sees my subway sandwich*
Guy: What kind of sandwich did you get?
Me: (reluctantly) Veggie Delite
*He predictably makes a weird face*
Me: I don't eat meat.
Guy: That's not healthy.
Me: What isn't?
Guy: The human body is designed for meat.
Me: Says who?
Guy: (faltering slightly): Meat has nutrition our body needs.
Me: There's nothing in meat you can't get from vegetables, except vitamin b-12 and there are plenty of non-vegetarians who have that deficiency anyway.
Guy: Vitamin B-12 (I said that already...) and protein.
Me: You can get protein from vegetables.
Guy: Soy maybe
Me: Yea and vegetables. Even without soy it's easy.
Guy: Go eat a hamburger.
Me: No....

I can tell my vegetarianism is going to be a thing with this guy now. He'll probably bring it up every time I see him.

If he does, i'm sure it violates some harassment rule at your work right? I know it's not a protected class so can't be discrimination, unless of course you claim your diet is religious, then i'm sure it is, i'd complain if he continues.
Purp likes this.
AlixJ18 is offline  
#3953 Old 04-16-2012, 02:35 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 10,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlixJ18 View Post

If he does, i'm sure it violates some harassment rule at your work right? I know it's not a protected class so can't be discrimination, unless of course you claim your diet is religious, then i'm sure it is, i'd complain if he continues.

That's a sure way to get management to think you are someone who wastes their time complaining about little things that most people let slide without worrying about.


Quote:
Guy: What kind of sandwich did you get?
Me: (enthusiastically) Veggie Delite
*He predictably makes a weird face*
Me: [at this point you don't have to say anything]
Guy: That's not healthy.
Me: What isn't?
Guy: The human body is designed for meat.
Me: You sure?
Guy: (faltering slightly): Meat has nutrition our body needs.
Me: So do plants [he won't know about b12]. All the nutrients we need are made, from soil, water, and air, by plants. We can either eat the plants, or get the nutrients second-hand from animal that ate the plants.
Guy: What about protein?
Me: You can get protein from vegetables.
Guy: Soy maybe
Me: Yea and vegetables. Even without soy it's easy. Any legume. Nuts, dark green vegetables such as collards and spinach.
Guy: Go eat a hamburger.
Me: [laughs]

Note that in both scenarios, you have not said that you are a vegetarian, only that you can get all your nutrients from plants. There is no reason a non-vegetarian wouldn't order a veggie delight, on occasion. As far as he knows, you are going to order a hamburger next time, even though you could just as easily get all your nutrients from plants. But now he has been informed that the animals that people eat, get all their nutrients from — plants.
Purp likes this.
soilman is offline  
#3954 Old 04-16-2012, 04:51 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Pixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegkid View Post

I'm fifteen. I can't exactly accept shipments of slugs from a 48-year-old over the internet.

Purp likes this.
Pixie is offline  
#3955 Old 04-16-2012, 07:11 AM
Veggie Regular
 
Rachel Bonneau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

Well, it is definitely more time consuming, harder, to pick up slugs and move them, then it is to set effective traps for them. A small garden could have 1000's of slugs in it, most of them hidden behind foliage. Well planned traps will draw out the hidden slugs and prevent a substantial number of them from damaging foliage. You won't be able to pick up and move hidden snails, not even after they've provided evidence of where they were, by leaving holes in foliage, many times their size. They'll be hidden while they are eating, and gone by time you find the holes they've made.

With slugs, if you go out in the middle of the night, when they are active, you will see them munching (if you look on the hidden underside of leaves) but by morning they'll be in hiding, elsewhere. However well you can see them at night, with a flashlight, it is impossible to remove sufficient numbers by hand, to make a difference. You'd have to be up all night, racing to grab as many as you can before dawn, and you'd still barely make a dent in their leafy-green consumption. Plus due to their slime, they are hard to grasp with your fingers. Any tool that you can effectively use to grasp them, such as a medium sized forceps, also injures them. A tiny slug, an 1/8 of an inch long, turns into an inch-long slug in a few days - by eating huge quantities of lettuce and endive. You have to pick off all the 1000's of tiny 1/8 inch and smaller slugs, while they are still small, to do any significant damage control. An impossible task. The big slugs - I don't know if they've already laid eggs or not. But by time they are big, the damage is already done.

Picking them up and moving them away from your garden, or killing them, is hopeless. Trapping is maybe a little better, but prevention is better than trapping. I'm not sure about snails, but I prevented slugs from eating my leafy greens, by making sure the leafy greens were not planted near my compost piles, and not using tree leaves as mulch, for leafy greens. You also need to avoid excessive surface moisture. Frequent watering, in relatively small amounts, encourages slugs more than does less frequent watering, with larger amounts of water.

she could do like I do and keep a section of garden for animals and move them there. a full third of my large garden is for bunnies and bugs and whatever else wants it.

plus, she doesn't garden to eat stuff, she gardens so she has something to do... in which case, I still maintain that she could pick them up and move them. if you aren't going to eat them you might as well let something else benefit from the stuff.

Quote:
Condescending meat-thusiast in-law, in tones of great concern, regarding plate of hash browns: "Now, Tanya, do you eat potatoes?"

Me (well, ok, this was only said in my head): "Unless it was scraped, squeezed, sliced, or otherwise extracted from a living or dead animal, yes; but if YOU made it, then no! because I'm quite sure you've worked in some bacon."

Seriously: do people actually not know that potatoes come from plants? or is she just an obnoxious person? ... or perhaps a combination of the two factors?!

Seriously overweight SAD eating coworker yesterday tried to tell me I should drink (cow's) milk. I said, nah, pass: I'm a GROWN mammal, been off the breast milk for ages. She argued -- I could not make this up -- that it's not really milk from a cow, after it's processed and bottled. <blink; eyebrows down; confused look>

Her evident belief is that cow's milk is not 'really' milk once it's packaged to sell... this is an educated person, in a director's position at the rehabilitation facility where I work. Kinda boggled my noodle! Just hafta shake my head and walk away, at that point: this is like a religious belief or something-- we've clearly left reality-based discussion far behind. :-P

and with this one, my mom used eggs to make hash browns and those potato pancakes (latkes?) stick together, so maybe that's why it was asked?
Purp likes this.

Wake up your generation! Wake up and save the nation! Wake up determination! I am afraid we're going down, Afraid we're going down in flames...
Rachel Bonneau is offline  
#3956 Old 04-16-2012, 08:13 AM
Newbie
 
hotcooknmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 49
She's asked the same thing, loudly, at large family gatherings, about onions and tomatoes. I read it as trying to point out that I'm weird (which by southern baptist bacon-5-times-a-day conservative republican standards, I definitely am, just not sorry at all about it), and that in her infinite patience she is trying to put up with me and be accommodating, which is bunk x 2.

Anyway. Family! :-P
Purp likes this.
hotcooknmama is offline  
#3957 Old 04-16-2012, 09:49 AM
Not such a Beginner ;)
 
LedBoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel Bonneau View Post

she could do like I do and keep a section of garden for animals and move them there. a full third of my large garden is for bunnies and bugs and whatever else wants it.

That's what my mom always did. Side garden, no fence, let the bunnies and slugs and everything else eat away. She used to move all the bugs over
to the 'bunny garden' from the human garden.
Purp likes this.
LedBoots is offline  
#3958 Old 04-16-2012, 11:49 AM
Veggie Regular
 
AlixJ18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

That's a sure way to get management to think you are someone who wastes their time complaining about little things that most people let slide without worrying about.

I'm sure you would also say the same thing to a woman complaining about sexual harassment. If someone starts coming in every day and harassing you about any of your choices or beliefs, then it's not a small thing.
AlixJ18 is offline  
#3959 Old 04-16-2012, 02:09 PM
Veggie Regular
 
vegkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the depths of N'Kai
Posts: 3,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixie View Post


Actually, I must correct myself, he's 64 years old. I had him confused with havocjohn for some reason...

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

vegkid is offline  
#3960 Old 04-16-2012, 02:27 PM
Veggie Regular
 
Spoonerism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlixJ18 View Post

If he does, i'm sure it violates some harassment rule at your work right? I know it's not a protected class so can't be discrimination, unless of course you claim your diet is religious, then i'm sure it is, i'd complain if he continues.

There are much bigger problems at work that they tend to ignore. They won't do anything about this. I'll just ignore the guy. (or make fun of him if he gets too annoying)

Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

Note that in both scenarios, you have not said that you are a vegetarian, only that you can get all your nutrients from plants. There is no reason a non-vegetarian wouldn't order a veggie delight, on occasion. As far as he knows, you are going to order a hamburger next time, even though you could just as easily get all your nutrients from plants. But now he has been informed that the animals that people eat, get all their nutrients from — plants.

I don't really understand why you edited my post but okay. I said that I don't eat meat. I think it's generally understood that that's what being a vegetarian is. I also used the term "non-vegetarians" when referring to people other than myself. Unless he really wasn't paying attention (like you apparently) he probably understands that I'm vegetarian. Anyway, I'll have more chances to clarify my position since I'm sure he'll bring it up again.

"I am a woman of science. At least that's what my horoscope said."
Spoonerism is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off