or Connect
VeggieBoards › Forums › Health & Nutrition › General Health Discussion › *Aaaaarggg* Shriek of terror!!!! [blood showing need for meat?]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

*Aaaaarggg* Shriek of terror!!!! [blood showing need for meat?]

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I just did a Hemaview analysys of my blood with my Naturopath where you can see your bloodcells on a monitor. Im actually really impressed with it but....the findings.... my blood looks terrible!!!! My white blood cells are great but my cells themselves are all clumpy and mushed together, i cant remember all that was said but there shape is all crappy some even like bottle tops!!! Apparently they're screaming for more iron and b12 and amino acids and 'meat stuff' according to my healer...sigh, she knows i love being vegetarian but she had 'the chat' to me about ultimately having to choose what is going to be best for me. My theory on myself ever eating meat again has always stood as only in a) being stranded in a location where there is no edible or available vegetation or dried grains/nuts etc ...b) if my health depended on it and i was told by a doctor etc that i needed to for health, ie was in danger of something, and this doesnt count the ususal eyebrow lifted spiel but some genuine reason for concern. Ive given myself 6 months to try to get them healthy again without eating meat but i just dont know what to do, i already am doing and eating all i can for great health, and take iron and folate supplements....sigh....SIGH!!!! I really couldnt imagine eating meat ever again.
post #2 of 15
Second opinion?
post #3 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by petal9 View Post

.... my blood looks terrible!!!! My white blood cells are great but my cells themselves are all clumpy and mushed together, i cant remember all that was said but there shape is all crappy some even like bottle tops!!! Apparently they're screaming for more iron and b12 and amino acids and 'meat stuff' according to my healer....

Well.... if you're vegan, you very likely will need a B-12 supplement. That (and a calcium tablet every other day or so) are the only supplements I bother with.



Iron and amino acids, I don't know... Some people do have trouble getting enough iron, particularly women. But too much iron can make you sick, so you might want another opinion as Cassiel suggests. Amino acids, of course, are what protein is made of, but protein isn't that hard for vegetarians unless they eat a lot of junk.

"Ground Control to Major Tom.... Ground Control to Major Tom...

Take your protein pills and put your helmet on...."

David Bowie- "Space Oddity"

Reply

"Ground Control to Major Tom.... Ground Control to Major Tom...

Take your protein pills and put your helmet on...."

David Bowie- "Space Oddity"

Reply
post #4 of 15
while i have abosolutely no issue with qualified and licensed naturopathic physicians (which i assume your natropath is- an ND?) i'd think that getting a blood panel, or even if neccesary, a referal to a hematologist (or someone otherwise highly medically qualified to assess and treat blood based illnesses, disorders and diseases) would be a good idea. how is the doctor sure that its a diet related issue? maybe its a case that your body is doing a crappy job of making and maintaining good quality red blood cells, while working with perfectly good ingredients on hand- and a change in diet won't neccesarily solve that.



also, if it is definately diet related, going to see someone who was qualified in vegan dietetics and nutrition would help too- if you are missing some elements of, or balance in the perfect diet for you. i'm not sure that adding meat to your diet would miraculously cure this, if your diet is already perfectly healthy and a good source of iron and other vitamins, minerals, and nutrients, and your body is capable of absorbing and processing said nutrients- seeing as meat is just made of the same elements as everything else, and as far as i know, doesn't contain some magical health restoring ingredient.



i definately agree with the need for a b12 supplement, and as far as iron goes, as a lady, you might have a challenge with this, vegan or not.
post #5 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by petal9 View Post

...Apparently they're screaming for more iron and b12 and amino acids and 'meat stuff' according to my healer...



This sounds like the typical highly questionable simplistic stuff you're going to get from a pseudo-scientist. If your red blood cells were *really* so badly dysfunctional, you'd be dead. If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking to have a conventional blood workup / evaluation done ASAP.
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanx everyone, i went back again today (eyeroll) and chatted to her about it, she suggested the b12 shots which i will look into, i think i do seem to have trouble assimilating the nutrients from the diet and that its probably not the 'diet' itself....i'll just have to see if the iron and b12 supps are the answer and if theres need to go 'elsewhere' after that. I do get really attached to my health providers once i have a good one, like dentists and doctors and masseus' and i do tend to trust their opinion once their in the 'cirlcle of trust' but yes perhaps a second opinion is a good idea, as is the veg specialist nutritionist.
post #7 of 15
As someone who has had a wide variety of blood tests done - by a wide variety of practitioners...the phrase "my cells themselves are all clumpy and mushed together, i cant remember all that was said but there shape is all crappy some even like bottle tops!!! Apparently they're screaming for more iron and b12 and amino acids and 'meat stuff'..." sounds like the biggest load of non-scientific nonsense I've ever heard.



Naturopaths can be extremely helpful, but their information needs to be accurate and trustworthy as well. As others have mentioned, if your cells were that bad - you would be dead!



How long have you been seeing this practitioner? If it's been long enough to establish the trust you seem to have, then they should have identified this horrible sounding blood condition a long time ago.



If this is one of your first visits, maybe you need to reconsider how much trust you put in them.



There are really very few (if any that are medically/scientifically proven) reasons that you would "have" to go back to eating meat.



And blindly trusting medical and health-care professionals isn't a wise idea. Yes, we often need their advice and expertise, but there are so many opinions floating around out there, a second opinion isn't EVER a bad thing...
post #8 of 15
This man used to do blood analysis at the health food store that I work at and he gave liquid iron and liquid B12 to EVERY one of his customers. It was very upsetting. It's very dangerous to take iron unless you are iron deficient. Please get a full blood panel from an M.D.
post #9 of 15
My naturopath had that "chat" with me.



She said my vegan diet prevented me from getting any amino acids. She blamed all my health problems on my animal-free diet. I just politely told her that I'd researched the topic thoroughly (go to wikipedia and type in "Amino Acids" ---- click on each one and notice that their BEST source is a legume, sesame seed or spinach).



Then she looked at my Amino Acid level on a machine and let out a big "Ohhhhhhhhhh!" I asked her if something was bad. She said, "No, you have a better amino acid count than most Americans.



However, she has brought the topic up with me on each visit, even stating that the Old Testament says we can eat meat (it also states to stone homosexuals, but I dont follow that rule either =P).



You arent alone.



You can increase iron intake by eating a vegetable high in iron along with a citrusy food. Such as spinach and a tomato sauce, or lemon water or whatnot.



B12---- get a B12 supplement. Still, you shouldnt NEED a b12 supplement (Look at the FDA's website on the vegetarian diet). Its in dairy products.



Also, if you do a little research, EGGS are the most perfect protein in the world (if people are going to insist for an "animal" protein. Little does anyone know, but meat (such as beef) actually lacks in 2 of the essential amino acids. Eggs contain all of them and are a complete protein (so is soy). It also contains Omega oils and a variety of minerals.



You arent alone in this. I'm going through the same thing with my Naturopath. I'm vegan.



1. Look at "amino acids" on wikipedia. (Their best sources)

2. The best sources of iron: http://www.tryveg.com/cfi/toc/?v=08sources (include Vitamin C to increase absorbtion)

3. Take a B12 supplement (also fortified rice/soy milk is high in this)



I decided that if I dont get better, I'll opt for eating powdered bugs. The are much more healthier in nutrients than animals.... I just have to figure out where to buy them.





Btw, did your white blood cells look clumped together like this? http://library.thinkquest.org/25896/.../blood/wbc.jpg
post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
[QUOTE=Apple_Blossem]



However, she has brought the topic up with me on each visit, even stating that the Old Testament says we can eat meat (it also states to stone homosexuals, but I dont follow that rule either =P).

QUOTE]



LMAO!!! Yes mine is of the same religious mindset. She is wonderful though, i have seen her regularly - she's my masseus as well - for over 6 months and she is a legend and excellent therapist, she suggested the Hemaview analysis ages ago but ive been slow in taking her up with the offer, its actually where you can see you own cells on a monitor hooked up the micropscope and they prick your finger and view fresh blood with you there at the time. My white blood cells where little champs, really strong and active, iv researched the sticky blood its called rouleau.



Thanx heaps for the links and chuckle Apple_Blossum, i really appreciate your input.
post #11 of 15
What are your naturopath's medical qualifications? What scientific validity does this test actually have? How is it different from or better than a regular blood panel from a doctor? I don't see how anyone could give you information as good as you would get from regular cbc, and other labs from just a drop of blood on a slide. Wouldn't they clot?



http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery.../livecell.html



http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1526339,00.html



Even if this practitioner has good intentions, I think they are full of bs.



ETA- from guardian article:



Quote:
So why are holistic practitioners becoming so fond of it? Seeing one's own blood cells on a video screen is, admittedly, a powerful experience. It gives patients the impression of hi-tech, cutting edge science combined with holistic care. And impressed patients are ready to part with a lot of money. American websites explain how a practitioner can make $100,000 (£57,000) annually by purchasing the equipment necessary for performing LBA. The bulk of this money is made not through charging for the test itself but by selling expensive nutritional supplements to the patient with the promise that these will correct whatever abnormality has been diagnosed.

In other words, patients are potentially cheated three times over. First, you are diagnosed with a "condition" you don't have; then a lengthy and expensive treatment ensues; and finally the bogus test is repeated and you are declared "improved" or "back to normal".
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalia View Post

What are your naturopath's medical qualifications? What scientific validity does this test actually have? How is it different from or better than a regular blood panel from a doctor? I don't see how anyone could give you information as good as you would get from regular cbc, and other labs from just a drop of blood on a slide. Wouldn't they clot?



http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery.../livecell.html



http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1526339,00.html



Even if this practitioner has good intentions, I think they are full of bs.



ETA- from guardian article:



Way to go raining on my parade!!!! haha...sigh....im not a big fan on supplements, never have been and yes after that it was the first time id walked away with some from her, liver detox for $60 and digestive enzymes for $50 and she did say to not worry about paying for them now but that i could pay them off later, id already thought i would return the enzymes unopened before reading those links (id returned the last thing she tried on me like this). Its hard to know who to trust with regards to these things as ive rolled my eyes so many times with doctors, the bulk of all i have seen appear to be muppets, and id seen so much improvement in myself from seeing her as a masseus and having her get into my guts and do alot of stomach massage, i dont think she is out to rip me off but it is what she does for a living and what she believes in and has been trained in. Its so easy to want to believe that such'n'such can fix your problemos...maybe iv been suckered
post #13 of 15
I agree that live blood cell analysis is a gimmick to sell product. However, I wouldn't completely dismiss the efficacy of supplements altogether. If you could find someone who actually knew what they were doing, they could suggest some supplements for certain ailments. It doesn't sound like this "blood analysis woman" knows what she's doing.
post #14 of 15
There's a difference between being an excellent masseuse and being an excellent diagnostician.



I teach Pathophysiology at a university for a living and I've never *heard* of making those diagnoses from the signs you described. 'Bottle cap' looking red blood cells are usually (albeit not always) caused by mild drying out of the slide, for example. I don't know everything there is to know, but I wouldn't be trusting that diagnosis.
post #15 of 15
Thread Starter 
Just to add here...I have no question of her qualifications or ability, she is an excellent naturopath with many many years experience, she also is a highly trained massage therapist, she's quite 'mature aged' if you will and has done this all her life, my focus had shifted to the reputation of live blood analysis and its trustworthiness.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Health Discussion
VeggieBoards › Forums › Health & Nutrition › General Health Discussion › *Aaaaarggg* Shriek of terror!!!! [blood showing need for meat?]