Vegan at Warped Tour!

OMG I'm so glad they are there! They said they would be! I know vegan outreach or mercy for animals, I forget which, maybe both, announces they are going to warp tour to hand out flyers. :)

I'm super glad they were noticeable, them animal rights groups are so smart, knowing where a bunch of conglomerated people will be and setting up right in the midldle xD
 

That's cool - we're thinking of taking our three kids to Warped - PDX is the last show of the tour (on the 5th). That's nice they had a vegan slant. How was the rest of the show?

11 year old boy (mine, Cedar) +  14 and 16 girls (partners). 

When I was a kid I went to shows all the time. There are so few all-ages shows now that it's sad IMO. So, I'm always looking for kid-okay shows. Plus I LOVE Streetlight Manifesto. I just wish Reel Big Fish was there this year.

Streetlight and Reel Big Fish actually came together to PDX, but I had to miss it. In fact both with were Less Than Jake in LA and I was seriously considering driving down there. I love all three bands. 

Anyhow, it's a little expensive for 5 people, but we're considering our options. 

"peta" and "warped". Why do I have this feeling there's already a strong connection between those two words for a long time ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empty_Shell 

"peta" and "warped". Why do I have this feeling there's already a strong connection between those two words for a long time ?

Well of course they are going to be there. They are the most well known and largest animal rights groups and you would probably find them at a lot of big events. There were also other organizations there so i hear so people who don't like peta can find solace in one of the other organizations ;)

I'd probably get in so much trouble if I was a performer on stage there and shouted out on a microphone what I think of peta.

A LOT of people become veg after seeing PETA literature.  They have wacky antics sometimes, but I don't see why anyone who cares about animals would want to turn people off of them at the point that they're merely distributing literature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irizary 

 wacky antics 

Hell of a term for murdering stray animals.

I don't think they should be in the business of euthanizing, no matter how terrible the conditions are that the animals are being kept in - I seriously think they should let animals die horrible deaths instead of doing it themselves, because of bad PR.  There are a lot of people who don't do high volume rescue of animals themselves, and they don't understand the scope of the problem, but they like to complain about how others do it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/03/peta-a-shelter-of-last-resort/254372/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irizary 

I don't think they should be in the business of euthanizing, no matter how terrible the conditions are that the animals are being kept in - I seriously think they should let animals die horrible deaths instead of doing it themselves, because of bad PR.  There are a lot of people who don't do high volume rescue of animals themselves, and they don't understand the scope of the problem, but they like to complain about how others do it.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/03/peta-a-shelter-of-last-resort/254372/

 

People would complain if they let them die horrible deaths too. Railing on Peta is simply a way many justify their current actions of doing the opposite of what they think peta does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4everaspirit 

People would complain if they let them die horrible deaths too. Railing on Peta is simply a way many justify their current actions of doing the opposite of what they think peta does.

Yes, they would complain regardless.  It's a systemic problem, and PETA certainly isn't the cause or the cure.  But neither do most people do a thing about it, except maybe to rescue a stray cat or adopt a shelter dog a couple times in their life - that's nothing to address the root of the problem.  The unwanted domestic animal problem is so huge in this country.  As someone who does high volume trapping of feral cats (among other rescue) I have seen so much desperation and misery on the street, that I believe that death is often better than life, although that's not a decision I make often - maybe to the detriment of the animals, I can't say for sure.  If I were in Virginia, where the conditions and resources are much worse than in my area, I don't know what I'd do. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylaxmae 

Streetlight Manifesto was AWESOME! And as long as you stayed out of the pits I think your whole family would just looove it:) And I don't particularly like PETA either and I didn't visit their tent but, I hope others did just to be more informed than when they entered :)

Awesome! I've never seen them, so I'd be really happy if I did.

If we go, I'll try to refrain from tossing my kids into the pit ;) Although I was in the pits at shows all the time as a kid (and pretty much lived). Plus, at the last two real, not local shows I was at (Daddies and Reel Big Fish) the pits weren't that bad. I'm guessing it would be nuttier at Warped though. 

~ Jennifer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irizary 

A LOT of people become veg after seeing PETA literature.  They have wacky antics sometimes, but I don't see why anyone who cares about animals would want to turn people off of them at the point that they're merely distributing literature.

"Merely distributing literature" is a bit of a stretch though in my experience.

Three times I've had troublesome run-ins with people at PETA info booths (at various events). All three times they involved my kid and the folks at the booth telling him more than I felt he needed to know at the time. One PETA supporter person (said they were working with PETA - but I'm not sure) told my son, Cedar, using fairly graphic terms, that to get meat they chop up animals. That's fine and all, because it's not like they're lying, but at the time my son was just five or six. Later on at a friend's house (they had ordered pepperoni pizza), he started talking about how "Pepperoni is cow legs cut into slices." My son's friend's parents were NOT thrilled. I asked him why he'd say that or even where he heard it and he said, "Because they chop up animals for food."  

I get that PETA has animal interests in mind, but some parts of how we eat should be left up to parents to explain. At that young of an age, I didn't really want my son thinking about chopped up animals, but honestly, he handled it. What actually irked me, is that the PETA gal thought it was okay for her to tell my kid whatever she wanted. 

A couple of my friends have also run into PETA supporters who have given them such intense speeches that it actually turned them off to veggie eating, because they said, "The PETA folks sounded nuts."

Note: I've met PETA supporters I like. Plus, my son has a decent coloring book or two he got from PETA, which were not too intense for a little kid, and still got the point across about not eating animals, so I know this organization has the ability to do what they do in a successful way, but some supporters do act too extreme IMO. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennifer C 

 

"Merely distributing literature" is a bit of a stretch though in my experience.

 

Three times I've had troublesome run-ins with people at PETA info booths (at various events). All three times they involved my kid and the folks at the booth telling him more than I felt he needed to know at the time. One PETA supporter person (said they were working with PETA - but I'm not sure) told my son, Cedar, using fairly graphic terms, that to get meat they chop up animals. That's fine and all, because it's not like they're lying, but at the time my son was just five or six. Later on at a friend's house (they had ordered pepperoni pizza), he started talking about how "Pepperoni is cow legs cut into slices." My son's friend's parents were NOT thrilled. I asked him why he'd say that or even where he heard it and he said, "Because they chop up animals for food."  

 

I get that PETA has animal interests in mind, but some parts of how we eat should be left up to parents to explain. At that young of an age, I didn't really want my son thinking about chopped up animals, but honestly, he handled it. What actually irked me, is that the PETA gal thought it was okay for her to tell my kid whatever she wanted. 

 

A couple of my friends have also run into PETA supporters who have given them such intense speeches that it actually turned them off to veggie eating, because they said, "The PETA folks sounded nuts."

 

Note: I've met PETA supporters I like. Plus, my son has a decent coloring book or two he got from PETA, which were not too intense for a little kid, and still got the point across about not eating animals, so I know this organization has the ability to do what they do in a successful way, but some supporters do act too extreme IMO. 

Are you saying it's a bit too much to distribute literature? o.O I do it all the time, and I love it. <3 Is it because of kids? I don't hand my literature out to kids unless they are begging for it and they usually say they love animals or volunteer at shelters, and at that point, I'd feel bad not giving them one. Also, I have had some parents actually want me to give them to their kids. One was like "Oh no, you should give that to my kids, they are the ones that really need to know about it."

I understand your perspective about letting the parents handle telling the child about it, but I don't necessarily agree with it. Some parents may twist the truth or give their kids a false notion that there is nothing wrong and that it's okay to eat animals. That's how I was raised anyway.

I definitely think the way you word things has a significant impact, and I'm quite sure that saying something like pepporoni is made of sliced cow leg would probably turn many people off to the message. Hence why I don't say that about people's food because I know they will get defensive and will not even more want to go veg. I usually wait till after people are done eating to show them my info if they ask, and I had that happen last night actually :)

I think peta probably has what many would consider a lot of nutty people because they have a big drawing towards kids and teenagers, and well, you know how that goes. However, I also don't think it's fair of people to blame some people for making them not want to go veg. If someone doesn't want to go veg, that is THEIR own doing, somebody may have turned them off of it, but in the end, if they had really cared and were interested, they would not have blamed their own shortcomings on people that are simply a bit more vocal and "nutty" in their approach. I think at that point, it starts to become a blame game where animal rights people are blamed for people not wanting to go veg because these people don't want to reevaluate their lifestyle choices nor do they want to feel guilty about not going veg.

You reminded me, I have a "My plate" I got from a vegfest I want to color o.o

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4everaspirit 

 

Are you saying it's a bit too much to distribute literature? 

 

I also don't think it's fair of people to blame some people for making them not want to go veg. If someone doesn't want to go veg, that is THEIR own doing, somebody may have turned them off of it, but in the end, if they had really cared and were interested, they would not have blamed their own shortcomings on people that are simply a bit more vocal and "nutty" in their approach. I think at that point, it starts to become a blame game where animal rights people are blamed for people not wanting to go veg because these people don't want to reevaluate their lifestyle choices nor do they want to feel guilty about not going veg.

 

No, I'm saying they DO NOT just offer literature. Well, not all the time. I like when my son has gotten literature from veggie groups, I don't like when he also gets a heaping dose of graphic info (or major speech about cutting up animals) that he or I didn't ask for. For kids, at least, it should, in my opinion be up to parents to handle food discussions. Not only because it's your kid, but also because parents should learn to take responsibility for major issues.

My son took the "Chopping up animals" speech in stride, but I know kids who would freak out and have nightmares about this. PETA got lucky with my kid, but they could just as easily give that speech to the wrong child and make a mess for the parents. 

I agree though with your second point though - to a point. I'm vegetarian in spite of the ruder vegetarians I've met. And to be honest, there's just as many rude meat eaters, but I've never heard someone say, "I don't eat meat because meat eaters are crazy!" It seems like only extreme non-meat eaters get a bad name. It is up to the person. That blame game is funky. I still do think though that if you want people to go veg, it helps to be nice about it and not sound wacky. Just a few rude or extreme people can give an entire community a bad name. But, overall, I see your point. We do (or should) make our own decisions about food. 

My question about this is - why is it actually so disturbing?  Probably everyone who was disturbed by it has no problem holding an actual, recognizable chicken leg or wing or breast in their hands and taking bites out of it.  Or a cow's rib.  Or carving up an entire, recognizable turkey at the table at Thanksgiving.  I don't know if pepperoni is made out of cow legs, but if it is, what's really the problem?  It's slices of cow regardless.

I agree with this with any social justice issue.  . 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irizary 

 

My question about this is - why is it actually so disturbing?  Probably everyone who was disturbed by it has no problem holding an actual, recognizable chicken leg or wing or breast in their hands and taking bites out of it.  Or a cow's rib.  Or carving up an entire, recognizable turkey at the table at Thanksgiving.  I don't know if pepperoni is made out of cow legs, but if it is, what's really the problem?  It's slices of cow regardless.

 

I don't think this is the best way to bring up vegetarian lifestyles to meat eaters - not while people are eating. It's the sort of comment that makes people say, "Oh man, here's an extreme vegetarian - all vegetarians must talk like this." Also, I don't honestly think pepperoni is cow legs - I mean, I'm not sure, maybe it could be, but I doubt it. 

I have discussed the fact that meat is animals with vegetarians, but I do it at times other than when people are already eating meat, because I don't like to be grossed out when eating, so I assume others don't as well. Like once I was eating broccoli and someone told me, "You know how many bugs they find in broccoli!" I felt that was rude since I was eating and it really put me off to broccoli for a long while.

I feel like if I say, "Hey that's chopped up cow" to someone when they're eating, all they'll remember is me saying something they don't like and they won't actually digest the actual "You should go vegetarian" part of the issue. 

If I'm talking to someone about veggie eating, I just don't want to seem rude, for fear of turning someone off to the whole idea. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennifer C 

I don't think this is the best way to bring up vegetarian lifestyles to meat eaters - not while people are eating. It's the sort of comment that makes people say, "Oh man, here's an extreme vegetarian - all vegetarians must talk like this." Also, I don't honestly think pepperoni is cow legs - I mean, I'm not sure, maybe it could be, but I doubt it...

 

I feel like if I say, "Hey that's chopped up cow" to someone when they're eating, all they'll remember is me saying something they don't like and they won't actually digest the actual "You should go vegetarian" part of the issue.

I agree it's not a good way to do it, because it's socially unacceptable.  But I'm just asking why, when people for example eat chicken parts and whole chickens that look like chicken parts and whole chickens, when they order "legs, breasts, thighs, and wings" and they say the names themselves, why it's so terrible to say that pepperoni is sliced cow.  Why is the cow so different than the chicken?  Chicken salad is "chopped up chicken" and it's not unacceptable to say that, I think.

I think you both have good points.

I agree with Jennifer in that we do in some ways want to act modest, without compromising ourselves, so as to lessen our chances of turning people off, as we do want people to be more open to going veg.  But in the end, if someone meets a "nutty" vegetarian and then they assume that all vegetarians are like that and they think that if they become one they will turn out like that, I'm afraid they are generalizing or stereotyping.

Irizary makes good points. Why is it okay for someone to say I want chicken breast, leg, or wing, to a waiter or something, but yet when a vegetarian REMINDS them exactly what they are eating is becomes nutty? (I think it's the fact that a "vegetarian" reminded them that gets them. )

I suppose the difference in saying chopped up cow and chopped up chicken is that everything that is cow is called a burger or steak with it's name being hidden. Chicken is simply called chicken in everything so I would assume in mentality that would put chicken in people's minds on a lower scale of worth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irizary 

I agree it's not a good way to do it, because it's socially unacceptable.  But I'm just asking why, when people for example eat chicken parts and whole chickens that look like chicken parts and whole chickens, when they order "legs, breasts, thighs, and wings" and they say the names themselves, why it's so terrible to say that pepperoni is sliced cow.  Why is the cow so different than the chicken?  Chicken salad is "chopped up chicken" and it's not unacceptable to say that, I think.

Ah, I see what you're saying. Sadly, I don't write social rules. 

Personally, I'd be much less inclined to eat meat that looks like meat than meat that's hidden. No idea when this would happen, but say someone held a gun to my head and said eat a hamburger OR the deep fried squid - I'd choose the hamburger because meat that actually looks like an animal part (in part or in whole) freaks me out. On that note, now I've made myself shudder. I haven't had a hamburger in, man... um 25+ years. Yeah I'm super old :( 

I bet this goes along with the whole social issue of asking people if they'd still eat meat if they had to hunt it down, kill it, and process it on their own. I hear many say no to that idea. Most meat eaters ignore where meat comes from which is why, I'm guessing, comments like the one Cedar made are not considered cool. His friend's parents wailed on me. I didn't really need them as friends though anyhow come to think of it. 

Geez, I was going to eat lunch here soon, but I've sort of lost my appetite now. 

If you can't afford to feed an Animal you take in, let Him/Her go free, so they at least have a chance of finding a meal or a home on their own (I have a perfect example living with me now). They can't do that if you have them trapped in a cage or your apartment. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empty_Shell 

If you can't afford to feed an Animal you take in, let Him/Her go free, so they at least have a chance of finding a meal or a home on their own

In many areas that is considered animal abandonment and illegal, for good reason.

That's the least humane "solution" of all - leave domestic animals out on their own to struggle to find food, water, medical care...leave the problem to someone else to deal with because the owner is too lazy or uncaring to handle the problem on their own.  That's about the equivalent of setting a toddler loose on the street because one doesn't want to care for him. 

I don't want to see your starving cat or dog dying on the side of the road because you didn't feel like dealing with him and finding him a home - since according to you there must be a home that he could find - or killing him yourself rather than letting him die slowly from hunger or thirst or injury.  Or giving him a chance at a shelter.

What a crappy, f'ed up way for n owner to pass the misery onto the rest of society.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irizary 

 

 

I don't want to see your starving cat or dog dying on the side of the road because you didn't feel like dealing with him and finding him a home 

I meant as a last resort before putting them to death, and you can keep the "your" out of it, because I never said *I* would throw an animal out of my house once I took them in. I was talking about the peta bimbo types (I've known one, personally) who think they know so well what kind of cruel death any Animal they don't lay their sacred hands on, is "certainly headed for".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empty_Shell 

 

I meant as a last resort before putting them to death, and you can keep the "your" out of it, because I never said *I* would throw an animal out of my house once I took them in. I was talking about the peta bimbo types (I've known one, personally) who think they know so well what kind of cruel death any Animal they don't lay their sacred hands on, is "certainly headed for".

 

You remind me of someone else who thought death was an answer. He shot himself dead in 1945.

I somewhat agree with you. Maybe the animal would prefer to be alive and fend for himself than have somebody put him down just because they didn't want him to have to fend for himself. Maybe the animal would prefer fending for himself, and just appreciating life as he can have it.
 

There is no black and white answer, I can see both sides of the argument.

Lord knows if I had lived an Animal life comparable to many of the years I existed as a human, several would have wanted to put a needle full of lethal injection liquid into me.  No light at the end of the tunnel doesn't have to mean no *life* at the end of the tunnel.