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Michael Vick Featured in New HSUS Anti-Animal Cruelty Videos

post #1 of 56
3/30/12 at 1:32pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.ecorazzi.com/2012/03/30/m...ruelty-videos/

Quote:
Recently, the HSUS released two PSAs featuring controversial Philadelphia Eagles quarterback and convicted dog fighter Michael Vick.
One thirty second video shows Vick urging people to use their toll-free tip line to report any animal cruelty or fighting they witness. “If you see animal cruelty in your neighborhood, speak up,” Vick says. “Make the call.”
A second video, a two minute educational piece, features Vick speaking directly with young people, encouraging them to treat animals kindly. In it, Vick vows to help more animals than he hurt. He tells the group “Pets have feelings, they have emotions, we gotta give them the same type of lifestyle that we wanna have.”
This is not the first time Vick and the HSUS have worked together. In 2009, toward the end of his 18 month prison sentence, Vick met with HSUS president Wayne Pacelle to discuss working together on a campaign. Many animal advocates find their collaboration contestable, but Pacelle feels Vick is a changed man. Regardless, Pacelle says “There is a utility for the animal protection cause in having him out there speaking, especially in communities where we have not had a very strong voice.”

His crimes were so terrible that I'm still deeply suspicious of Michael Vick, but I'm glad he's trying to do some good. Whether it's for PR reasons or because he really had a change of heart, either way at least he's doing it.

And if he really does end up helping more animals than he hurt I don't care what his motivation is, as long as it happens.

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post #2 of 56
3/30/12 at 1:40pm
well its certainly better than him being publicly remorseful and defiant. I still question his sincerity and am also concerned about how he may impact advocacy regarding BSL to the benefit of dog breeders.
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post #3 of 56
3/30/12 at 1:50pm
I find it hard to believe he suddenly developed emotions he didn't have for these animals before. And I say this as someone almost entirely devoid of empathy.
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post #4 of 56
3/30/12 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkepticalVegan View Post

well its certainly better than him being publicly remorseful and defiant. I still question his sincerity and am also concerned about how he may impact advocacy regarding BSL to the benefit of dog breeders.

I don't believe that there is any sincerity or ever was. That being said, you're definitely right - actually helping the cause, regardless of motivation, is a good thing. The only thing that bothers me is that by doing this, he's actually fooling some people into thinking he means it. If he means it, I want to see him helping animals in a way that won't affect his paycheck. Then maybe he'll deserve the PR.

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post #5 of 56
3/30/12 at 4:30pm
I doubt any sincerity. I was still in Philly when the Eagles acquired him. Based on local interviews he still seemed to think he was a victim and was just used to be made an example of. Never did he seem to regret what he did, only that he got caught.
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post #6 of 56
3/30/12 at 7:30pm
Well I think I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. To get caught doing something bad, pay your fine, do your time or whatever and then just slink away and try to forget is what most people would do, but he's putting himself out there, knowing how much he's hated and despite that, speaking out against the thing that he used to do. I would have a hard time doing that and I've never done anything half as nasty as he did. Seems to me that everybody deserves a second chance.

Another thing too, if this was court mandated then I think it is really suspect, but if he's doing this of his own volition, then that is another matter. Does anyone know which of the two it is?
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post #7 of 56
3/30/12 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

Well I think I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. To get caught doing something bad, pay your fine, do your time or whatever and then just slink away and try to forget is what most people would do, but he's putting himself out there, knowing how much he's hated and despite that, speaking out against the thing that he used to do. I would have a hard time doing that and I've never done anything half as nasty as he did. Seems to me that everybody deserves a second chance.

Another thing too, if this was court mandated then I think it is really suspect, but if he's doing this of his own volition, then that is another matter. Does anyone know which of the two it is?

Have you ever read descriptions of what he did to those dogs?

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post #8 of 56
3/30/12 at 8:09pm
I read his wiki and he is on probation until November, so I suspect he was court-ordered to do this.
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post #9 of 56
3/30/12 at 8:49pm
I think he has a shot at reaching some of the people who most need to hear this message. He is the perfect messenger to speak to people who are or may become dog fighters. He might get through to them. The thousands of angry animal advocates who complain that Vick isn't remorseful enough are thuroughly incapable of getting through to the people who need to hear the message. I appreciate the foresight of the HSUS and their dedication to effective education.
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post #10 of 56
3/31/12 at 5:49am
My problem is he just isn't a great quarterback. There are much better athletes who could be doing these PSA's. I question his sincerity too.
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post #11 of 56
3/31/12 at 5:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainforests1 View Post

My problem is he just isn't a great quarterback. There are much better athletes who could be doing these PSA's. I question his sincerity too.

Sure you could have Lance Armstrong doing PSA's against dog fighting. Yep, that will make an impression. Or you could have one of these guys: Cody Bass, Andre Benoit, Mark Borowiecki, Bobby Butler, Erik Condra, Patrick Coulombe, Jared Cowen, doing PSA's against dog fighting. But none of them were convicted of involvement in dog fighting. Are they really better spokesmen against it?
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post #12 of 56
3/31/12 at 5:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainforests1 View Post

My problem is he just isn't a great quarterback. There are much better athletes who could be doing these PSA's. I question his sincerity too.

He's a whiner who complains about being tackled (oh, my arm hurt so much I could barely tie my shoes, yet did all that horrible stuff to dogs.
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post #13 of 56
3/31/12 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

I think he has a shot at reaching some of the people who most need to hear this message. He is the perfect messenger to speak to people who are or may become dog fighters. He might get through to them. The thousands of angry animal advocates who complain that Vick isn't remorseful enough are thoroughly incapable of getting through to the people who need to hear the message. I appreciate the foresight of the HSUS and their dedication to effective education.

And I think too, that it is important to realize that each one of us is capable of change and assuming that Michael Vick isn't, is as fair as the way he treated those dogs. And I realize there is a difference between torturing dogs and bad-mouthing the guy, but at the heart of it, the sentiment is the same, anger, a sense of self-superiority, meanness, and an inability to move on. And so what that he doesn't show his remorse the same way that I would (tears and sobbing and multiple, unending promises never to do it again, and I'll give my first-born if I ever screw up again.....). We all show remorse in different ways and maybe I won't like your way but if that's the best you can muster....
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post #14 of 56
3/31/12 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegkid View Post

Have you ever read descriptions of what he did to those dogs?


Yes I have, and I stand by what I've said. We all deserve a second chance and because he is in the spotlight generally, we will all know if he messes up again. And he is in a better position to reach young men who might be inclined to go that way than anyone else would be. Like I said, Lance Armstrong isn't going to reach the young, urban male who lives in that environment in the same way he would.
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post #15 of 56
3/31/12 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

And I realize there is a difference between torturing dogs and bad-mouthing the guy, but at the heart of it, the sentiment is the same, anger, a sense of self-superiority, meanness, and an inability to move on.

I don't care at all what he's done or whether he's genuinely changed in some way. I just doubt it.

This isn't a case like someone becoming vegetarian out of guilt when they first make the connection between empathy for animals and the source of their lunch. He participated directly. Whatever suffering there was, he knowingly caused/enabled it and witnessed the results. I could imagine, over the years, someone might eventually come to regret having done that. Or perhaps very suddenly when they learn of some aspect in those animals that makes them feel sympathetic, as if they had always believed they were less intelligent and one day learned otherwise. I don't believe that of someone who should by rights have clearly seen the nature of the animals he was interacting with all along, and only stopped because of legal penalties. Maybe he feels some sort of guilt, shame or regret, but to me it seems more likely that those feelings are like what a child might feel when it is caught doing something it was told is wrong, but enjoys doing nonetheless.

Not that the opposite isn't possible. Perhaps in some way being caught was a catalyst for a real emotional change - but I wouldn't guess that if guessing had consequences. Anyway, good for him and whatever HSUS is. I'm sure they both get something out of it, so why not.
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post #16 of 56
3/31/12 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

Sure you could have Lance Armstrong doing PSA's against dog fighting. Yep, that will make an impression. Or you could have one of these guys: Cody Bass, Andre Benoit, Mark Borowiecki, Bobby Butler, Erik Condra, Patrick Coulombe, Jared Cowen, doing PSA's against dog fighting. But none of them were convicted of involvement in dog fighting. Are they really better spokesmen against it?

If anything, Vick being convicted makes me less likely to want him as a spokesman.
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post #17 of 56
3/31/12 at 2:35pm
From 2010. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shu...urn=nfl-296400

Michael Vick wants another dog. He told this to NBC News in an interview set to air Wednesday:

"I would love to get another dog in the future. I think it would be a big step for me in the rehabilitation process.

"I think just to have a pet in my household and to show people that I genuinely care, and my love and my passion for animals; I think it would be outstanding. If I ever have the opportunity again I will never take it for granted. I miss having a dog right now. I wish I could. My daughters miss having one, and that's the hardest thing: telling them that we can't have one because of my actions."

Too soon, Michael. Too soon.
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post #18 of 56
3/31/12 at 2:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LedBoots View Post

From 2010. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shu...urn=nfl-296400

Michael Vick wants another dog. He told this to NBC News in an interview set to air Wednesday:

"I would love to get another dog in the future. I think it would be a big step for me in the rehabilitation process.

"I think just to have a pet in my household and to show people that I genuinely care, and my love and my passion for animals; I think it would be outstanding. If I ever have the opportunity again I will never take it for granted. I miss having a dog right now. I wish I could. My daughters miss having one, and that's the hardest thing: telling them that we can't have one because of my actions."

Too soon, Michael. Too soon.

Yeaaaah, you're not allowed to say you have a love and passion for animals after you torture them, electrocute them, tear their teeth out, and throw them into a ring together so you can watch them tear each other apart and die...

I'm all for him doing penance and helping animals any way he can, but I really don't think he should ever have one as a pet again. The only reason he isn't still in jail is because he did these things to dogs not people.

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Vegans are basically saying, "Hey, animals shouldn't be needlessly harmed." It's amazing how many people that sentiment freaks out. - Vegan.com

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post #19 of 56
3/31/12 at 3:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainforests1 View Post

If anything, Vick being convicted makes me less likely to want him as a spokesman.

Yeah but you aren't young, black and living in the kind of constrained urban lifestyle that a lot of the dog fighting crowd are. (Are you any of those?) Because those are the kind of people who will relate to his words. So maybe it doesn't matter if you care or not because you aren't the target audience.

Just out of curiosity, who do all of you think would be a better spokesman on this issue?
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post #20 of 56
3/31/12 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savvington View Post

I don't care at all what he's done or whether he's genuinely changed in some way. I just doubt it.

This isn't a case like someone becoming vegetarian out of guilt when they first make the connection between empathy for animals and the source of their lunch. He participated directly. Whatever suffering there was, he knowingly caused/enabled it and witnessed the results.................................Not that the opposite isn't possible. Perhaps in some way being caught was a catalyst for a real emotional change - but I wouldn't guess that if guessing had consequences. Anyway, good for him and whatever HSUS is. I'm sure they both get something out of it, so why not.

So would all of you be as forgiving to a guy who was a pig farmer all his life and suddenly saw the light or would you be as continually suspicious of every word that he utters? At what point do you decide to give a person a second chance? Just curious if there is any hope for people like Vick or the pig farmer or the chicken farmer or any other 'user-of-animals' to be accepted by the 'anointed'?

I read a story written by an AR guy (can't remember his name) and he told of sitting down to a meal with a pig farmer. Lots of tension around that table and as the farmer became more relaxed and got to know his guest he finally shared with him that all his life he had hated what he did but the farm was started by his father and he inherited it and had worked there all his life. He'd had a little pet pig as a kid but his dad had made him personally kill his pet (to toughen him up) and that's the kind of life he had growing up. A few months after the talk the farmer had with this AR guy, he sent a note to the activist and told him that he'd done it, made the decision to quit farming pigs and was going to farm something else, produce or grain or something. Does this farmer get forgiveness? Do we welcome him in?
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post #21 of 56
3/31/12 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

Just out of curiosity, who do all of you think would be a better spokesman on this issue?

Probably someone who actually cares about animals and doesn't spout bull**** because they want people to like them again.

I mean, I could at least understand if he said that he misses having a dog because his daughters want one, but passion and love for animals? Him? Really? That's like if Freddy Krueger not only stopped killing people, but claimed that he wanted to become a superhero because he absolutely loved people. He slashed their faces to bits in their dreams, he absorbed them into beds and watched their entrails splatter on the ceiling, but he absolutely loves and cares for people. He understands why people don't think he's a good guy, but all that is behind him now, honest.

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post #22 of 56
3/31/12 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

So would all of you be as forgiving to a guy who was a pig farmer all his life and suddenly saw the light or would you be as continually suspicious of every word that he utters? At what point do you decide to give a person a second chance? Just curious if there is any hope for people like Vick or the pig farmer or the chicken farmer or any other 'user-of-animals' to be accepted by the 'anointed'?

I read a story written by an AR guy (can't remember his name) and he told of sitting down to a meal with a pig farmer. Lots of tension around that table and as the farmer became more relaxed and got to know his guest he finally shared with him that all his life he had hated what he did but the farm was started by his father and he inherited it and had worked there all his life. He'd had a little pet pig as a kid but his dad had made him personally kill his pet (to toughen him up) and that's the kind of life he had growing up. A few months after the talk the farmer had with this AR guy, he sent a note to the activist and told him that he'd done it, made the decision to quit farming pigs and was going to farm something else, produce or grain or something. Does this farmer get forgiveness? Do we welcome him in?

But there's a difference. Not on a fundamental level, no - both Vick and the farmer still killed animals purposely and actively participated in their systematic torture for the purpose of monetary gain. But if the farmer turns around and says he's going to farm something else, it's not like he was "caught" and forced to stop. He made that decision on his own, whereas Vick had to face the law. The farmer who risks his income in order to stop his cruel actions is doing good of his own accord. We have no proof that Vick actually regrets anything he did, and most of the evidence and common sense points towards him just BSing everyone because he wants PR points that he lost. Would the pig farmer get PR points from anyone just because he stops farming pigs? Not really (except from farm animal activists).

Plus, it's not like Vick wasn't already making huge amounts of money. There is no pity here. He was not forced into dogfighting in any way. He didn't have to do it to support himself and his family. With the farmer, that might have been different.

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post #23 of 56
3/31/12 at 4:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegkid View Post

But there's a difference. Not on a fundamental level, no - both Vick and the farmer still killed animals purposely and actively participated in their systematic torture for the purpose of monetary gain. But if the farmer turns around and says he's going to farm something else, it's not like he was "caught" and forced to stop. He made that decision on his own, whereas Vick had to face the law. The farmer who risks his income in order to stop his cruel actions is doing good of his own accord. We have no proof that Vick actually regrets anything he did, and most of the evidence and common sense points towards him just BSing everyone because he wants PR points that he lost. Would the pig farmer get PR points from anyone just because he stops farming pigs? Not really (except from farm animal activists).

Plus, it's not like Vick wasn't already making huge amounts of money. There is no pity here. He was not forced into dogfighting in any way. He didn't have to do it to support himself and his family. With the farmer, that might have been different.

Yeah, the motivations behind the actions of the pig farmer and Vick are completely different. The pig farmer does what he does to make money and doesn't enjoy it, Vick did what he did because he REALLY enjoyed it and that's what's so disturbing. I think the Freddy Krueger comparison was more apt.

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post #24 of 56
3/31/12 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl View Post

Yeah, the motivations behind the actions of the pig farmer and Vick are completely different. The pig farmer does what he does to make money and doesn't enjoy it, Vick did what he did because he REALLY enjoyed it and that's what's so disturbing. I think the Freddy Krueger comparison was more apt.

I also want to be clear on the fact I don't side with pig farmers. What they do is still a terrible thing, regardless of whether it is as terrible as what Vick did. The lesser of two evils is still evil and whatnot. But the real underlying issue here is the psychology. In an ideal world, equal acts would be seen as equal, but that's unfortunately not how the world works, and therefore not how the people who live in it work.

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post #25 of 56
3/31/12 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegkid View Post

But there's a difference. Not on a fundamental level,............

Well you're right on how the violence was ended in the two cases and that is significant. As for proof that Vick regrets, well, what would you accept? So far nothing. So it seems that even if the guy IS totally remorseful, most will never forgive him.
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post #26 of 56
3/31/12 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

Well you're right on how the violence was ended in the two cases and that is significant. As for proof that Vick regrets, well, what would you accept? So far nothing. So it seems that even if the guy IS totally remorseful, most will never forgive him.

If he were to do work for animals in the background, without any effect on his paycheck, without him being forced to because he's on probation, THEN I would consider that proof that he regretted what he did, at least enough to make positive changes in his life. Maybe then I'd be able to think about him without thinking that he's a total dick at the same time. But as it is now, I simply can't accept the idea that he's doing this of his own accord. He seems exactly like he's been constantly described: not sorry for doing it, only sorry he got caught.

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post #27 of 56
3/31/12 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

So would all of you be as forgiving to a guy who was a pig farmer all his life and suddenly saw the light or would you be as continually suspicious of every word that he utters?

If he stopped because he was forced to, then yes, I would be suspicious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

At what point do you decide to give a person a second chance?

To do what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

Just curious if there is any hope for people like Vick or the pig farmer or the chicken farmer or any other 'user-of-animals' to be accepted by the 'anointed'?

I have no idea what/who that is meant to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

I read a story written by an AR guy (can't remember his name) and he told of sitting down to a meal with a pig farmer. Lots of tension around that table and as the farmer became more relaxed and got to know his guest he finally shared with him that all his life he had hated what he did but the farm was started by his father and he inherited it and had worked there all his life. He'd had a little pet pig as a kid but his dad had made him personally kill his pet (to toughen him up) and that's the kind of life he had growing up. A few months after the talk the farmer had with this AR guy, he sent a note to the activist and told him that he'd done it, made the decision to quit farming pigs and was going to farm something else, produce or grain or something. Does this farmer get forgiveness? Do we welcome him in?

Fascinating, but irrelevant. The guy wasn't doing it for a living, nor did he stop of his own volition; I never claimed to be suspicious that regret was possible. Also, I don't care what he did nor have anything to welcome him into.
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post #28 of 56
3/31/12 at 11:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl View Post

The only reason he isn't still in jail is because he did these things to dogs not people.

Correction: the only reason he isn't on death row or already executed is because he chose more oppressed victims than humans, whose lives don't mean as much to our justice system. He's every bit as bad as Ted Bundy.

For those eager to forgive, forget, and move on, see:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz19xH5rR5l
http://chrisdurant2000.wordpress.com...gly-convicted/
http://badrap-blog.blogspot.com/2009...ans-sport.html

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
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"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
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post #29 of 56
3/31/12 at 11:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

Correction: the only reason he isn't on death row or already executed is because he chose more oppressed victims than humans, whose lives don't mean as much to our justice system. He's every bit as bad as Ted Bundy.

For those eager to forgive, forget, and move on, see:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz19xH5rR5l
http://chrisdurant2000.wordpress.com...gly-convicted/
http://badrap-blog.blogspot.com/2009...ans-sport.html

Exactly, what he did went far far beyond just dog fighting for profit. It was sadistic.

Vegans are basically saying, "Hey, animals shouldn't be needlessly harmed." It's amazing how many people that sentiment freaks out. - Vegan.com

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Vegans are basically saying, "Hey, animals shouldn't be needlessly harmed." It's amazing how many people that sentiment freaks out. - Vegan.com

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post #30 of 56
4/1/12 at 2:26am
A car battery? I don't think this guy quite comprehends electricity.
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