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Vegetarians having kids, with pro-hunting grandparents - Page 4

post #91 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryRabbit View Post

irizary.. i typed exteemly IMMATURE.

and AlixJ. are you starting to kinda see where i was coming from. what you wrote kinda plays into what i was trying to convey.

if a mature (ex.) 8yo or immature say 12yo wants to go with grampa hunting let em.. if you can stand to.. if you have instilled the right attitude in your child, that one trip should take care of things.. then you have no issues worrying about your and your kids relationship with your parents/in-laws. each child is different. some will require that, others will just say, no thanks. why is the core fear that the child will just fall into it after you have had years to condition them? let the child blossom instead of retarding them.

No see because 16 and 8 or 12 is very different. I think if a grandparent wanted to take a 16 year old hunting and the kid wanted to do it fine it's their choice, but i've seen that pro-hunters often want to start them off young, i won't let my 8 year old make the decision to go with because i'm not only against killing animals, i'm against children with guns, especially going with some conservative old person going off to shoot live animals, i simply wouldn't trust that person with a gun with my child, not to mention little kids may want to go for other reasons than to actually hunt, maybe they are scared or intimidated by their grandpa, maybe they just want to fit in, or think that's the only way they can bond, maybe they want to shoot at stuff but it doesn't need to be animals. With all of these i would rather the grandparent do some other bonding activity, and if the kid just wants to shoot stuff i'll get him/her a bb gun and some cans. I was a shy kid, at 8 if my grandparent told me they were going to take me hunting and my parents let me i would have done it, only because i would have been afraid of hurting his feelings, and at the expense of my own i would have willingly traumatized myself and felt very guilty later on if any animals were killed, i know my parents would have forbid me from going if that ever came up, they weren't vegetarian but did not like guns, and i'm really glad they would have stopped me from making a stupid mistake as a child. 13 is the point when i really grew up and actually thought for myself.
post #92 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryRabbit View Post

no.. it is what it is. it is just normal..

hpv is normal in women (inactive in men) but it is still a virus.

That's like saying gonorrhea and chlamydia are normal, they are common, because people are stupid, but not normal. Although honestly we probably all hate that word because there's really no such thing as normal. Here's another example of something common but not "normal" most women get an epidural when in labor, but that's not normal or natural at all, i plan not to get one, i'm not abnormal for that, i think i'm in fact way more close to "normal" than all the others who use chemicals to stop the pain.
post #93 of 132
looked up some facts on HPV.. not as common as i though, so saying it is normal was wrong...

normal would be defined as common place.. but i posted about diseases also being a bad medium.


if you do not trust someone around your child, then that is a no brainer..

no, you do not give a kid a gun. expecially at a very young age without extensive instructions on all things related..

as for your grandfather.. if you asked your parents to go and they urged you not to, would you go anyway?? timid people seek a way out.. give the kid a way out.. its simple.. if the kid decides not to, and the grandparent continues to pressure the child, then you have an issue.. but that is not normal behavior


edit... as for the disease.. if the majority of a population has said disease, then having the disease is normal.. that does not make the disease its self or the diseased person normal
post #94 of 132
This thread makes me headdesk so much...

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post #95 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegkid View Post

This thread makes me headdesk so much...

It makes me headbridge too... I mean headdesk.

We are all copies of the same machine. 

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We are all copies of the same machine. 

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post #96 of 132
There is so much FAIL in some comments in this thread, that if you could fill big barrels with that FAIL and load the barrels on to a truck to transport to a waste dump, you would have to make 890,003 trips with the truck, between this thread and the waste dump, before all the FAIL had been gotten rid of.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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post #97 of 132
legboots.. and alexJ for the most part.. thankyou for the thoughful responses.. vegkid had one a while back too.. sorry if i missed anyone else..

but i will state this.. i have been attacked (ridiculed) for my opinion. i have made no effort to sway anyone, and i agee with the end result, my methods simply differ.

from the outside looking in it would seem normal for the members of this forum to be combative people with an inability to think criticly.


i'm going to leave this thread be (i hope) and move on. opinions are neither right nor wrong as long as they remain simply that. guess if you have moderate views then you are to be cast out. seem like some stand-up people and i hope you have lots of friends in real life.. adios.
post #98 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

There is so much FAIL in some comments in this thread, that if you could fill big barrels with that FAIL and load the barrels on to a truck to transport to a waste dump, you would have to make 890,003 trips with the truck, between this thread and the waste dump, before all the FAIL had been gotten rid of.

A waste dump is too pure for all of the FAIL.

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

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post #99 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryRabbit View Post

legboots.. and alexJ for the most part.. thankyou for the thoughful responses.. vegkid had one a while back too.. sorry if i missed anyone else..

but i will state this.. i have been attacked (ridiculed) for my opinion. i have made no effort to sway anyone, and i agee with the end result, my methods simply differ.

from the outside looking in it would seem normal for the members of this forum to be combative people with an inability to think criticly.


i'm going to leave this thread be (i hope) and move on. opinions are neither right nor wrong as long as they remain simply that. guess if you have moderate views then you are to be cast out. seem like some stand-up people and i hope you have lots of friends in real life.. adios.

Now I feel bad for my last post, but I honestly feel that your arguments are unsupported and don't make sense.

Oh well, I guess that happens a lot around here.

Good luck elsewhere?

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

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post #100 of 132
I can't say that I wouldn't teach my kids to hunt... even though I am a vegetarian.
post #101 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryRabbit View Post

from the outside looking in it would seem normal for the members of this forum to be combative people with an inability to think criticly.

Yes; with better critical thinking skills, those members would reach conclusions such as that if you don't trust your kids to make their own decisions in absolutely everything on this good green Earth, you should hide in a shed.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

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post #102 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryRabbit View Post

legboots.. and alexJ for the most part.. thankyou for the thoughful responses.. vegkid had one a while back too.. sorry if i missed anyone else..

but i will state this.. i have been attacked (ridiculed) for my opinion. i have made no effort to sway anyone, and i agee with the end result, my methods simply differ.

from the outside looking in it would seem normal for the members of this forum to be combative people with an inability to think criticly.


i'm going to leave this thread be (i hope) and move on. opinions are neither right nor wrong as long as they remain simply that. guess if you have moderate views then you are to be cast out. seem like some stand-up people and i hope you have lots of friends in real life.. adios.

There are many here with differing views, the difference is in the communicated debate.
Bye-bye.
post #103 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryRabbit View Post

i have been attacked (ridiculed) for my opinion.

Like when we called you psychotic? Oh wait...

We are all copies of the same machine. 

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We are all copies of the same machine. 

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post #104 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornsail View Post

Like when we called you psychotic? Oh wait...

I said their argument was arbitrary.
post #105 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

It puts others at risk of bodily harm and death

Hunting can be dangerous, I agree with you here. All though I missed some of the conversation since my post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

Must a child actually witness murder in order to enrich his total life experience

In todays technological, post-indistrial age. No, nobody really needs to experience the violent nature of the underground world. A few hundred years ago, I would be saying rather the opposite. In those times violence and death was very common.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

witnessing violent death is ****ing traumatic

Having been the nephew, grandson, and son of hunting family members. Seeing some of the things I saw. They were unthinkably life changing. They gave me a bit of an edge in tough situations, but that is not to say having to kill, gather, [edited for kindness], than be lectured on the values of life are the only ways to be stone skinned for the many challenges life throws at you.

As for pleasing the grandparents by hunting, I think it is wrong of them not to take the life choices of all parties into account. On the other hand, in the event they would find a suitable option that is 100%/100% for both involved parties. Even if it might not be perfect for the Veg*n party, it would be unkind to not accept the offer. Myself personally, I wish my uncle would had taken me on one of his Canadian hiking voyages he took every year. I guarantee I would had gotten a life lesson or two all the same.
"One may regret living at a period when it's impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there's one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian"
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"One may regret living at a period when it's impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there's one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian"
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post #106 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyjames View Post

As for pleasing the grandparents by hunting, I think it is wrong of them not to take the life choices of all parties into account. On the other hand, in the event they would find a suitable option that is 100%/100% for both involved parties. Even if it might not be perfect for the Veg*n party, it would be unkind to not accept the offer.

What? The grandparents had their shot at parenting and to teach their lifestyle. The parents are in no way obligated to take the "life choices" of the grandparents into account by letting the kid go kill an animal. Speaking of "kindness" - it's not kind to the animal and their possible offspring and others who might need them. Why do the grandparents getting to pass on their violent and unnecessary activities trump the right of an animal to take another breath on earth?

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

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"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

Reply
post #107 of 132
Ok, here's the compromise ...

1. Set the grandparents loose in the woods and let the kids hunt them down with dogs and guns.

2. Encourage the kids to evaluate the grandparental difference in attitude towards hunting from the hunteds PoV.
post #108 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazyeeqen View Post

I said their argument was arbitrary.

You monster!

We are all copies of the same machine. 

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We are all copies of the same machine. 

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post #109 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyjames View Post

Hunting can be dangerous, I agree with you here. All though I missed some of the conversation since my post.

She's talking about the animals. How didn't you see that?

Of course hunting is dangerous. It involves people going out and trying to kill things. It's dangerous to the things they are trying to kill.

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

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post #110 of 132
I actually discussed this with my inlaws a while ago. We're still at the contemplating potential child stage of life. C has agreed that, if we have a child, he will eat 100% vegetarian at home and will support me in aiding our child make vegetarian choices.

C's parents are hunters and I will not allow my child to go hunting when they are young. At a certain age (I'm thinking mid teens?) I'd give them the option but until then it simply will not be something that is open to them. My inlaws will not talk about taking them out for trips, and if asked they will refer the child back to me or C. The inlaws and I talked and what they really want is outdoorsy time with the kid and potentially passing along some skills and family traditions. Awesome, we can do that. They can have hikes and picnics and go on picture hunts. They can even take our child out to their gun club at an appropriate age and teach them gun safety and how to target shoot. These are all things that they want to share and can, without ever once killing an animal to do so.

I've completely forgotten how this thread started due to head trauma associated with all the headdesk moments. My point was that, for me, we're setting up clear boundaries ahead of time on what will and will not be permitted with my child. I (well, and C) are the ultimate authority. Family will follow our rules with the child or the family will have limited access and supervised visits. Basically, they can do things the way that we, as the parents, have outlined and have all kinds of fun happy and frequent times together. Or, they can fail to abide by our rules and find visits restricted and supervised. Either way they'll be seeing their grandchild, it's just a matter of when, how and where. Well behaved grandparents could have extended child vacations whereas inappropriate family members will find themselves visiting at our home under our supervision. It's kind of like dog training except with grown ass adults who should know better.
post #111 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alibabble View Post

C's parents are hunters and I will not allow my child to go hunting when they are young. At a certain age (I'm thinking mid teens?) I'd give them the option but until then it simply will not be something that is open to them.

I wouldn't make it ever acceptable for a minor. If they're desperate to kill someone, I guess they'll figure out how to do it, but not with my blessing or agreement just because they've reached a certain age. It's still killing someone unnecessarily, and very disappointing that someone raised with the value of not hurting animals would want to snuff out someone's life for sport or a taste preference.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

Reply

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

Reply
post #112 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alibabble View Post

I actually discussed this with my inlaws a while ago. We're still at the contemplating potential child stage of life. C has agreed that, if we have a child, he will eat 100% vegetarian at home and will support me in aiding our child make vegetarian choices.

C's parents are hunters and I will not allow my child to go hunting when they are young. At a certain age (I'm thinking mid teens?) I'd give them the option but until then it simply will not be something that is open to them. My inlaws will not talk about taking them out for trips, and if asked they will refer the child back to me or C. The inlaws and I talked and what they really want is outdoorsy time with the kid and potentially passing along some skills and family traditions. Awesome, we can do that. They can have hikes and picnics and go on picture hunts. They can even take our child out to their gun club at an appropriate age and teach them gun safety and how to target shoot. These are all things that they want to share and can, without ever once killing an animal to do so.

I've completely forgotten how this thread started due to head trauma associated with all the headdesk moments. My point was that, for me, we're setting up clear boundaries ahead of time on what will and will not be permitted with my child. I (well, and C) are the ultimate authority. Family will follow our rules with the child or the family will have limited access and supervised visits. Basically, they can do things the way that we, as the parents, have outlined and have all kinds of fun happy and frequent times together. Or, they can fail to abide by our rules and find visits restricted and supervised. Either way they'll be seeing their grandchild, it's just a matter of when, how and where. Well behaved grandparents could have extended child vacations whereas inappropriate family members will find themselves visiting at our home under our supervision. It's kind of like dog training except with grown ass adults who should know better.

this sums up everything I've been trying to say. thanks, you just saved my battery life.
hunting is out due to your lifestyle choices, and finding an alternative for the in-laws like you said hiking and gun safety is awesome. family time is amazing, so is valuing people's choices! lol

I am not for animal cruelty and feel hunting in this day and age is not needed. we've mastered agriculture and science has helped with the rest.

Animal cruelty aside from hunting is a downright inexcusable action.

thanks for your post. I am moving onto a different thread this one has me o n the edge.

xyjames,
cheers!
"One may regret living at a period when it's impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there's one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian"
Reply
"One may regret living at a period when it's impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there's one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian"
Reply
post #113 of 132
I wouldn't allow my kids to go to a KKK meeting with relatives.
I wouldn't allow them to attend a far right religious group, or anything I'd consider a "cult".
I wouldn't allow them to attend any kind of animal fighting
I also wouldn't allow animal racing
And ... wouldn't allow hunting
post #114 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post

I wouldn't allow my kids to go to a KKK meeting with relatives.
I wouldn't allow them to attend a far right religious group, or anything I'd consider a "cult".
I wouldn't allow them to attend any kind of animal fighting
I also wouldn't allow animal racing
And ... wouldn't allow hunting

You monster! You should allow them to explore all these things for themselves and let them get a true idea of the world!

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

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post #115 of 132
Sometimes I think the sheds not such a bad idea...
post #116 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

I wouldn't make it ever acceptable for a minor. If they're desperate to kill someone, I guess they'll figure out how to do it, but not with my blessing or agreement just because they've reached a certain age. It's still killing someone unnecessarily, and very disappointing that someone raised with the value of not hurting animals would want to snuff out someone's life for sport or a taste preference.

Oh, they definitely wouldn't have my blessing and I would make it clear that it's a choice I would prefer that they not make. I'm honestly thinking it will be a non-issue. I'm hoping that any child I have will be smart enough to know better (WRT animal welfare) and do better (stay veg). Plus, by the time I actually have a child and that child hits that age my inlaws will be in their late 70s to early 80s and both of them have bad knees and are overweight. I'm thinking hunting trips might not be something they'll be doing. It makes it easy for me to take a position that they'll view as reasonable while being pretty confident that it won't ever come to pass.
post #117 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

Yeah I'd buy this if the buck had been attacked by the man with his bare hands and teeth. There is no respect where there is no fair fight. It's just savage destruction.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but at the same time you can't use tool usage as an argument against meat-eating. We vegetarians eat many foods that require tools... in fact most of the foods we eat require tools. We wouldn't be able to to be vegetarian without tools.
post #118 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger View Post

I don't necessarily disagree with you but at the same time you can't use tool usage as an argument against meat-eating. We vegetarians eat many foods that require tools... in fact most of the foods we eat require tools. We wouldn't be able to to be vegetarian without tools.

You could always claw the dirt to sow the land, gather and plant seeds by hand, and water them by running down to the nearby stream and throwing handfuls of water onto the soil.

Not that the whole tools thing really matters, but it would be a LOT easier to grow vegetables without tools than to hunt without them.

Enjoying the view over at http://forum.veggieviews.com/

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post #119 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegkid View Post

Not that the whole tools thing really matters, but it would be a LOT easier to grow vegetables without tools than to hunt without them.

Really? Could you even open a coconut without the use of a tool?
post #120 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger View Post

I don't necessarily disagree with you but at the same time you can't use tool usage as an argument against meat-eating. We vegetarians eat many foods that require tools... in fact most of the foods we eat require tools. We wouldn't be able to to be vegetarian without tools.

Tool-usage can't be used to say that meat-eating is "unnatural". ("Unnatural" makes no sense anyway.) However, tool-usage in hunting can be used to say that hunting is unfair towards the prey, or that hunting is not respectful, as I think SE was saying.

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Reply

"and I stand

upon a mountain

made of weak and useless men"

Reply
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