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In 2011, there are still 24 boys-only golf clubs in the United States

post #1 of 160
8/3/11 at 1:12pm
Thread Starter 
And Speaker John Boehner, second in line for the U.S. presidency, is a member of one of them.

Quote:
Boehner's Handicap

[...]

Sometime in the '50s, the story goes, a small plane ran into engine trouble over Bethesda, Maryland, and was forced to crash-land near the 18th hole of a bucolic golf club. Employees rushed to the scene, andupon discovering that the pilot was a womanhad her "very gingerly and gallantly" removed from the grounds.

Three decades later, when a visiting head of state showed up at the same golf club with a complement of Secret Service agents, the lone woman among them couldn't set foot on the property. In 1981, a new Supreme Court appointee with a love of golf and a 12 handicapSandra Day O'Connorbecame the first justice not to be offered a membership. That same chivalry has since been extended to Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor.

[...]

Deep breath. Okay. It is 2011. Boehner is the speaker of the House. The body that is supposed to, more than any other, represent the peopleall the peopleof the United States of America. Yet 91 years after women won the right to vote and 40 years after our mothers fought for more than token access to the levers of power, the signal the man second in line for the presidency intends to send to 51 percent of the nation, 40 percent of Republicans, and his own daughters is...well, we're too ladylike to say.

And yes, intends: The optics of belonging to one of America's last 24 boys-only golf clubs have been brought to Boehner's attention many, many times before. Evidently, Neanderthal sexism is simply another thing he refuses to compromise on.

[...]

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post #2 of 160
8/3/11 at 1:25pm
Actually, I am surprised that this is legal.

However, I go back and forth on this issue. I would love to be able to attend a women's only gym.
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post #3 of 160
8/3/11 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by julz View Post

Actually, I am surprised that this is legal.

However, I go back and forth on this issue. I would love to be able to attend a women's only gym.

I agree, I go back and forth too and yes please to a women's only gym. There are several in my area.
~The more you sweat the less you bleed~
***Come gather at our table***
http://ourtable1.blogspot.com/
***The road to Thermopylae***
http://theroadtothermopylae.blogspot.com/2011/09/huge-change-of-plans.html
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~The more you sweat the less you bleed~
***Come gather at our table***
http://ourtable1.blogspot.com/
***The road to Thermopylae***
http://theroadtothermopylae.blogspot.com/2011/09/huge-change-of-plans.html
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post #4 of 160
8/3/11 at 2:01pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73RM9gS7bU
Tam! RUGH!
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Tam! RUGH!
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post #5 of 160
8/3/11 at 2:36pm
If we go back and forth on it it means that we should let it be. whats so bad about the fact that people want to have some activities with their gender only? let those guys have their boys only clubs. the day when you can't find where to play golf because you are female is the day we should be upset about sexism. and i don't think it will happen
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post #6 of 160
8/3/11 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira View Post

If we go back and forth on it it means that we should let it be. whats so bad about the fact that people want to have some activities with their gender only? let those guys have their boys only clubs. the day when you can't find where to play golf because you are female is the day we should be upset about sexism. and i don't think it will happen

I agree with you, however, in the past these types of places were where the power players gathered and brokered back room deals and excluded women from the process further thwarting women's desire for equality.

From purely a gender standpoint, though, there are a number of places where I would prefer women only.
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post #7 of 160
8/3/11 at 3:14pm
I dislike both concepts.
"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
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"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
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post #8 of 160
8/3/11 at 3:38pm
With regards to this article: I would think that regardless of whether it is legal, it appears inappropriate. Boehner should know better than to be involved with an organization that excludes a segment of society.
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post #9 of 160
8/3/11 at 3:48pm
BTW, former Speaker of the House, Tip O'Neill, was also a member. So was Edward R. Murrow and Bryant Gumbel.
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post #10 of 160
8/3/11 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by julz View Post

With regards to this article: I would think that regardless of whether it is legal, it appears inappropriate. Boehner should know better than to be involved with an organization that excludes a segment of society.

would it be the same for a woman to be a member of a women-only gym chain?
"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
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"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
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post #11 of 160
8/3/11 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Envy View Post

would it be the same for a woman to be a member of a women-only gym chain?

As I mentioned earlier, I go back and forth on this for that reason. There are times when I would like the option to a women only experience, so I certainly would not want a blanket law that makes it illegal.

I know! We could make it illegal for men to exclude women, but not the other way around.
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post #12 of 160
8/3/11 at 3:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Envy View Post

would it be the same for a woman to be a member of a women-only gym chain?

Not in a patriarchal society.
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post #13 of 160
8/3/11 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by julz View Post

As I mentioned earlier, I go back and forth on this for that reason. There are times when I would like the option to a women only experience, so I certainly would not want a blanket law that makes it illegal.

I know! We could make it illegal for men to exclude women, but not the other way around.

no, I mean if it would appear inappropriate for a famous women to do what I described?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spang View Post

Not in a patriarchal society.

it's better for women to be free from men rather than the opposite at places where you do sports?
"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
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"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
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post #14 of 160
8/3/11 at 4:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Envy View Post

it's better for women to be free from men rather than the opposite at places where you do sports?

I think women-only establishments are okay in a patriarchal society.
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post #15 of 160
8/3/11 at 4:26pm
Like Julz and Veganmama, I go back and forth on this. And I agree with Spang- as long as we are living in a patriarchal society where women are viewed as objects by many men, women-only gyms, colleges, what-have-you are just fine.

I was a member of a regular gym for one year, and I HATED being leered at and hit on by the men who worked out there. I have also been a member of a women-only gym, and it was amazing. I could work out without having to worry that some dipsh*t was going to be staring at my chest and then making crass remarks about me to his buddies.
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post #16 of 160
8/3/11 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Envy View Post

it's better for women to be free from men rather than the opposite at places where you do sports?

Why do men feel the need to be "free" from women?
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post #17 of 160
8/3/11 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequoia View Post

Why do men feel the need to be "free" from women?

don't ask me, I don't go to such places.
"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
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"Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place."
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post #18 of 160
8/3/11 at 4:33pm
who cares why they want it. let them have it if they want it. i doubt that half of the women that go to women gym will be looked at by a man as an (desirable) object, and yet they go there. it should be their freedom
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post #19 of 160
8/3/11 at 4:34pm
I don't have a problem with either way, sometimes men want to have boys only things and get away from women, and women would like the same, as long as there are some co-ed places i don't really see a problem.
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post #20 of 160
8/3/11 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlixJ18 View Post

I don't have a problem with either way, sometimes men want to have boys only things and get away from women, and women would like the same, as long as there are some co-ed places i don't really see a problem.

Again...why do men want to get away from women? The women I know who want to get away from men have damn good reasons for wanting to do so, and none of those reasons apply when the situation is switched.
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post #21 of 160
8/3/11 at 5:15pm
maybe they are not comfortable around women. not all women want to have men free activities just because some man may compliment their butt, lol
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post #22 of 160
8/3/11 at 5:25pm
My husband is part of this organization (not sure what to call it, but it's similar to orders of chivalry I guess) that allows both men and woman as members, however the yearly meeting is men only. (so the women all get together and have lunch).
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post #23 of 160
8/3/11 at 5:34pm
If that's the case they should work on their social skills, rather than excluding women. And before you say that women should do the same, women have good reasons for not wanting to be around men. Rape and sexual harassment are only two of them. Yes, men get raped and sexually harassed by women, but not nearly as often as women do by men.

I'm not saying that I'm against these golf clubs. I honestly don't have that much of a problem with them. But I want to know why men feel the need to exclude women. I highly doubt it has much to do with not being comfortable around women, and more to do with "tradition" (poor excuse) and misogyny.
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post #24 of 160
8/3/11 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Envy View Post

no, I mean if it would appear inappropriate for a famous women to do what I described?

I would say that, at this time, men would not suffer issues with equality if there were women only establishments. But it does look bad just like it would look if they did not allow minority groups.

You understand that I am not advocating laws to disallow this type of private clubs, right?
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post #25 of 160
8/3/11 at 6:30pm
Uhh ok maybe men just plain don't want to listen to women chattering on around them about stuff they aren't into? And if we talk about things besides golf clubs like men only gyms, maybe they feel embarrassed working out in front of women, or just plain don't want to be around them, why does it have to be that someone is in major danger for it to be a good reason? If i was a man i would want to go to men only things, i would most likely find a lot of women annoying, just like now if i could choose i'd pick going to a women only gym or other type of club, not because i'm afraid of getting attacked, because that didn't really enter into my mind, but because i generally don't want to workout in front of men, and i'd have more women to talk to.
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post #26 of 160
8/3/11 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlixJ18 View Post

Uhh ok maybe men just plain don't want to listen to women chattering on around them about stuff they aren't into? And if we talk about things besides golf clubs like men only gyms, maybe they feel embarrassed working out in front of women, or just plain don't want to be around them, why does it have to be that someone is in major danger for it to be a good reason? If i was a man i would want to go to men only things, i would most likely find a lot of women annoying, just like now if i could choose i'd pick going to a women only gym or other type of club, not because i'm afraid of getting attacked, because that didn't really enter into my mind, but because i generally don't want to workout in front of men, and i'd have more women to talk to.

Wow, there are so many stereotypes contained in this post. So tell me, Alix, what are "men only things"?
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post #27 of 160
8/3/11 at 6:52pm
if they don't want to work on their social skills, they don't have to. they should have the option to have their "men only" place. most women don't go to women only places because thery are worried about sexual harassment just because sexual harassment doesn't happen as often from women to men doesn't mean there should be nothing done for men to have a women free place
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post #28 of 160
8/3/11 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequoia View Post

Wow, there are so many stereotypes contained in this post. So tell me, Alix, what are "men only things"?

Omg no there are not, and how can you not understand that "men only things" is what we are talking about, not things only made for men, but men separate from women. For some reason you are completely fine with have double standards, i am not. I'm a woman, who wouldn't want to be around men in that setting, just because well i wouldn't want to, just as some men would be the same. Why can't men be allowed to have places for them and women have places for women, and there be a co-ed option as well?
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post #29 of 160
8/3/11 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlixJ18 View Post

Omg no there are not, and how can you not understand that "men only things" is what we are talking about, not things only made for men, but men separate from women.

How can you expect anyone to understand anything you say when you can't even articulate your opinion in a way which makes a modicum of sense?
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post #30 of 160
8/3/11 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequoia View Post

How can you expect anyone to understand anything you say when you can't even articulate your opinion in a way which makes a modicum of sense?

Rude. We are talking about men and women having their own separate clubs of the same thing yes? "Men only things" didn't mean what you seem to think it is, as in, "only men can do this", no men and women can both do it, but why can't they each do it with only their own gender if they want?
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