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Explosion/blast at government offices in Oslo

post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...76L2VI20110722

The pictures are intense.
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The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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post #2 of 57
I just wanted to say to all of you in norway and other that have friends in oslo, I hope they are all safe and in one piece. Today is a terrible day for Norway and for the rest of the world as well. My heart goes out to all who have lost someone today. This is just horrible.
post #3 of 57
MOD NOTE: I merged these threads as they are basically on the same subject.

Yes, a very sad day. One would hope little Norway was too little, insignificant and boring for something like this to happen there.

The rumour is the fake policeman they arrested for the shooting massacre has a "Nordic" appearance. That makes the islamist angle seem less probable, although of course he could be a convert, but still .... what are the chances?

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post #4 of 57
I'm gonna stay neutral on the speculation so far. it doesn't help anyone. It's just completely surreal. I'm sitting alone in london, boyfriend and flatmates are away all weekend so I'm basically just sitting glued to the news and twitter.
post #5 of 57
It is terrible.

I still remember being scared to go into Central London because of the IRA when I was younger and I remember some kids at school making "jokes" because my family are Irish.
post #6 of 57
We turned off the TV. I've read a lot of news online, but at this point I think it's probably a waste of my time and energy to read/watch any more. I'm pretty sure I don't know any of the victims anyway. I'm a seasoned speculator, if I may say so myself, but there isn't really much information to go on yet.

I no longer post here after the 2012 schism and exodus. (See my profile.) 

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post #7 of 57
I'm sorry Norway!
post #8 of 57
So sad. I really hope there's not backlash against Muslim folks amidst the speculation.

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post #9 of 57
from Twitter>

"Tweets tell of harrasment against muslims in Oslo - stop this if you see it happening!"

"Jeg har sett en person gråte åpenlyst i dag. Det var en pakistaner. Det var jo dette han flyktet fra" "I have seen a person cry today, it was a pakistani. It was this he escaped from"
post #10 of 57
So terrible.
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post #11 of 57
That's terrible So sorry to hear this. My heart goes out to the people of Norway.
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post #12 of 57
Well, I was guessing Muslim extremist or Neo-Nazi.

So far, with the information on the arrested shooter, doesn't fit neatly into either.
post #13 of 57
That's just horrible. Much sympathy for the families of those who died.


At least 80 are killed: http://www.adressa.no/nyheter/innenr...cle1665824.ece

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post #14 of 57
How awful.
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post #15 of 57
I found on a lot of news sites that commentators immediately thought it was the work of Muslim extremists when there was absolutely no evidence of it. And then of course there are all those people calling for Muslim immigrants to be removed from all Western countries. Now it seems it was not a Muslim extremist at all, but a Caucasian right wing radical. These days, people jump to the conclusion that all terrorist attacks must be the work of Muslims. That is unfortunate.
post #16 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by roneet View Post

I found on a lot of news sites that commentators immediately thought it was the work of Muslim extremists when there was absolutely no evidence of it. And then of course there are all those people calling for Muslim immigrants to be removed from all Western countries. Now it seems it was not a Muslim extremist at all, but a Caucasian right wing radical. These days, people jump to the conclusion that all terrorist attacks must be the work of Muslims. That is unfortunate.

yeah but people said the same thing about the earlier reports in the times square bombing. "see it's not a muslim this time!" and then it was.
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post #17 of 57
It's possible that Anders Behring Breivik is a Muslim, but I wouldn't put too much money on it.
post #18 of 57
Thread Starter 
He has some serious right-wing ties, it seems, so that seems a likely motive.

<<flashes back to OKC

Listening to the police briefing now, where they are saying basically that they don't know if he acted alone yet or not. They do know that he had some serious firepower on Utøya, so possible that he killed everyone there himself.

The press is trying to get the cops to say that they are surprised that it was a Norwegian and not an "Islamist" that was responsible. Good on the police for saying that they have looked at many scenarios, both homegrown and foreign.
The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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The ones I pity are the ones who never stick out their neck for something they believe, never know the taste of moral struggle, and never have the thrill of victory. - Jonathan Kozol
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post #19 of 57
woke up to my mum messaging me saying 84 people died on the island utøya. It's just horible. my little sister is the same age as the kids there, I sent her a message saying I love her. I wish I was back in norway now, I need a hug from someone who knows what I feel like.
post #20 of 57
I have a friend who regularly visits Oslo and was due to go out next Thursday. I fear for his safety and have begged him to reconsider going.

The heavy neo-nazi angle makes me think of the confusion some people suffer when dealing with the whole Nordic issue of religion and race. In much the same way when Varg Vikernes killed Euronymous in the 1990's. Many believed he was a Satanist, because he was anti-Christian. He wasn't. He was simply someone who was so embroiled and "into" Nordic culture, he wanted that to be the way the country was religiously run. If you are aware of the Norwegian black metal scene, you'll understand where I am coming from.

The parallels with these breaking stories are eerie.
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post #21 of 57
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe...eref=rss_world

Combined death toll from both attacks is 91.
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spend its whole life believing that it is stupid...~Albert Einstein~
"Nothing tastes as good as kindness feels" - ~ElaineV~
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Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spend its whole life believing that it is stupid...~Albert Einstein~
"Nothing tastes as good as kindness feels" - ~ElaineV~
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post #22 of 57
I have nothing to add to this thread other than my heart goes out to the people of Norway... How horrible...
post #23 of 57
The whole thing is just very, very sad.
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"If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals." -Sirius Black
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post #24 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamJen View Post

He has some serious right-wing ties, it seems, so that seems a likely motive.

What ties?

The only one I've seen is he's a fan of Geert Wilders.

Otherwise, he was a member of the Progress Party, which is right (center-right?) by European standards, but would probably get him called a socialist in the US.
post #25 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

What ties?

The only one I've seen is he's a fan of Geert Wilders.

I'm not sure he was formally associated with any conventional political groups, but he was active an anti-immigration discussion forum and some specifically anti-Islam fora. Some sources have also claimed he was a fundamentalist Christian.

Quote:
Otherwise, he was a member of the Progress Party, which is right (center-right?) by European standards, but would probably get him called a socialist in the US.

It's comparable to the US Republican Party on several issues, but they support issues such as government-subsidised, cheap healthcare.

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post #26 of 57
Quote:
Oslo Shooting: Read Anders Behring Breivik's Internet Comments Here

This English translation of the alleged Norway shooter's posts on a Norwegian website suggests he was obsessed with the impact of Islam on Norwegian society.

Anders Behring Breivik, charged in connection with Fridays horrific bombing and shootings in Norway, left clues to his motivation at an anti-Muslim website called Document.no. In the entries belowculled and translated by the British magazine SearchlightBreivik is fixated on what he believes is the creeping evil of Islam in Europe. He argues for setting up a system of social networking "such that is linked to similar organizations in other countries (similar to a beginning of a cultural Euro-version of a Tea Party movement)." He complains that Europe lost the Cold War by 1950 and that the continent, especially Norway and Sweden, has been engulfed by Marxist attitudes, "while the old-established truths of patriotism and cultural conservatism today is branded as extremism." He notes, "The European cultural conservative movement is small at the moment but we are growing every day."

Breivik, in one post, argues that a "moderate" Muslim is like a "moderate" Nazi:

Quote:
And then we have the relationship between conservative Muslims and so-called "moderate Muslims". There is moderate Nazis, too, that does not support fumigation of rooms and Jews. But they're still Nazis and will only sit and watch as the conservatives Nazis strike (if it ever happens). If we accept the moderate Nazis as long as they distance themselves from the fumigation of rooms and Jews?....For me it is very hypocritical to treat Muslims, Nazis and Marxists differ. They are all supporters of hate-ideologies. Not all Muslims, Nazis and Marxists are conservative, most are moderate. But does it matter? A moderate Nazi might, after having experienced fraud, choose to be conservative. A moderate Muslim can, after being refused to enter a club, be conservative, etc.

He denounces multiculturalism:

Quote:
Tell me one country where Muslims have lived peacefully with non-Muslims without the Jihad

...How many thousands of new Europeans must die, how many one hundred thousand European women should be raped, millions robbed and tractor discarded before you understand that multiculturalism + Islam does not work?

[...]

The Complete Article
post #27 of 57
Quote:
UPDATE 3, Saturday, July 23, 11:09 a.m. EDT: According to the UK's Daily Mirror, Anders Behring Breivik has been "preliminarily charged with acts of terrorism." Norwegian police say the 32-year-old Breivik appears to be an extreme right-wing, Christian fundamentalist, due to postings on his website. NRK reports that the suspect is a member of an Oslo gun club, and "was exempted from military service, and thus...has no special education [from the Norwegian] Armed Forces."

The Source
post #28 of 57
to state the general rule -

in a Western country when a right-wing Christian fundamentalist commits some mass crime in which people are murdered it gets put down to "disturbed individual," not the religion or ideology. Like Timothy McVeigh.

When it's a Muslim fundamentalist doing the crime (or even an animal rights activist in which property damage occurs but no one is hurt) it gets put on the whole group.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

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"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

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post #29 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Summer View Post

I'm not sure he was formally associated with any conventional political groups, but he was active an anti-immigration discussion forum and some specifically anti-Islam fora. Some sources have also claimed he was a fundamentalist Christian.

Are European fundamentalist Christians pro-choice?

Because according to sources, he was.
post #30 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

Are European fundamentalist Christians pro-choice?

I agree, that seems odd for a fundamentalist Christian, but abortion has been mostly a non-issue in Norway for several years. (We had a couple of priests in the 80s who campaigned against it.) What are your sources, anyway?

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