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  Topic Review (Newest First)
08-12-2017 11:27 AM
Emma JC hummus.... back to that for a minute... I make my own hummus and do not put olive oil in it - occasionally I will put in some tahini (ground sesame seeds)

homemade hummus is also a good opportunity to add other ingredients like carrots or peppers and garlic, lemon, olives... so many great options that add nutrients and taste, even some spinach is nice

Emma JC
08-11-2017 06:56 PM
pinktomate No. I was just explaining.
08-11-2017 04:20 PM
silva
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktomate View Post
When you are being treated for B12 deficiency, the blood level of B12 is irrelevant. You may have 10000 pg/dL and still have a deficiency. The body takes a lot of time to metabolize the vitamin in your blood. The rule of thumb is to take B12 until you feel better.
I'm confused- are you being treated for a B12 deficiency?
08-11-2017 03:06 PM
Jamie in Chile Hm seems we have a lot in common...I did physics (and astronomy) at Uni, I also live in South America. Never made it to Colombia though. I've been all the way up to northern Chile and on through Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador and that was all. That was in 2004. Colombia was considered an adventurous, maybe even dangerous, destination for a traveller in those days. I think that's changed a bit now.

Anyway I hope our ideas helped or if not hope you figure it out.
08-11-2017 01:10 PM
pinktomate When you are being treated for B12 deficiency, the blood level of B12 is irrelevant. You may have 10000 pg/dL and still have a deficiency. The body takes a lot of time to metabolize the vitamin in your blood. The rule of thumb is to take B12 until you feel better.

No, I don't think it has anything to do with my enviroment.

I recived the normal english class in school. The usual kind of class where no one learns anything.

I just happen to live in the internet: Youtube content, information about unknown films/series, film discussions... If you don't know english, you are dead to the internet. Besides, I study physics, and you are also dead to science if you don't know english.

Almost everyone I know who has a hobbie that relies in information/knowledge, knows english.
08-11-2017 11:46 AM
David3
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktomate View Post
Colombia xD

Hi pinktomate,

In Colombia, you may be able to find a local Registered Dietitian through the Asociación Colombiana de Dietistas y Nutricionistas: https://acodin.org/

.



08-11-2017 09:00 AM
silva Perhaps the amount for intramuscular are different. I've never looked into that, only sublingual. Jamie is correct- there is no harm in higher doses

@pinktomate You don't say what your bloodwork found?
08-11-2017 07:11 AM
Jamie in Chile I take 5000 mcg tablet B12 once a week. I get it shipped out to South American from iherb which I think ships from the US. I could find it locally, but it is just easy to get it shipped. Your dosage maybe on the low side. Try 5000 mcg once a week instead of biweekly or monthly (EDIT: Actually I think you mean 1000mcg twice a week, that might be OK already?). I have tried injections and tablet. Tablet is better since I just have a reminder in my computer that pops up once a week and Wednesday and it is just like eating a sweet in fact it is cherry flavoured. With B12, I believe there is little danger of taking too much so it is better to aim high than low especially if you are having issues.

However, I suspect B12 isn't your problem especially given the blood test, but I still think it is worth trying 5000mcg once a week.

I think you should also be considering other things other than diet. Around the time the problems started, did anything change. Did you move to a different house with different water supply, air quality, moved to work to a new job in an area where you might receive pollution, eating less/more, stress, not sleeping well...but maybe you've already thought of this.

Your English is too good for a 20 year old Colombian, are you from a bilingual family or in a top school that teaches classes in English, even subjects other than English? Or maybe you just spent a lot of time writing and checking your posts. Sorry, just being nosey, it doesn't really matter if you don't want to talk about that.
08-11-2017 04:50 AM
pinktomate Colombia xD
08-10-2017 07:49 PM
David3
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktomate View Post
I've been vegan for around five years, since I was fifteen. I was doing fine, but since last year I've struggled with fatigue and concentration problems. I tried to correct the most "common" problems, B12, calcium, vitamin A and D deficiency, poor protein intake, zinc, iron... but nothing has worked. It's frustrating because almost every ****ing nutritional problem causes fatigue and brain fog, so is imposible to tell what is wrong unless you try all the blood tests in existence.

The last two options in my mind are a diet poor in fat and omega 3 deficiency (I didn't really consider it till now, because when I was a child I never ate fish, and neither did my family, that aren't vegetarian and always were ok, so I thought it was not a problem). But I can´t keep guessing. I`m a student and I don't have a lot of money to spend buying all the superfood and supplements that, maybe, could help me.

I went to a couple of nutritionist and doctors, but none of them knew how to handle the situation. The best advice was the typical "Just eat meat and everything will be ok". Thank you, Captain Obvious.

If it continues like this, I really think I would give up.

A couple of questions: how common are in vegan problems due to bad fat intake? What other problems could I be overlooking?

I would be grateful for any advice.

PD: sorry for my english.

Hi pinktomate,

Yeah, doctors and nutritionists are not necessarily well-educated in nutrition. In the United States, almost anyone can legally do business as a nutritionist, even if they have no training at all. Doctors are well-educated regarding surgery and pharmacology, but they have very little nutrition education.

The appropriate person to help you is a Registered Dietitian (RD). Registered Dietitians have, at minimum, a university bachelor's degree in human nutrition. They must also undergo standardized training, testing, certification, internship, and compulsory continuing education throughout their careers. A Registered Dietitian will never insist that you eat meat, if you have strong personal reasons for being vegetarian (as many of us here do).

If you are a university student, you may be able to see a Registered Dietitian for free, through your university's student health center.


In the United States, you can find a local Registered Dietitian through the website of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics: http://www.eatright.org . Just click on the "Find an Expert" button, located in the upper-right-hand portion of the webpage.

In Spain, you can find a local Registered Dietitian through the Academia Espanola de Nutricion y Dietetica: http://www.academianutricionydietetica.org/

In the U.K., you can find a local Registered Dietitian on the Freelance Dietitians website: http://www.freelancedietitians.org/

In New Zealand, you can find a local Registered Dietitian through the Dietitians New Zealand website: http://dietitians.org.nz/find-a-dietitian/

In Australia, you can find a local Accredited Practising Dietitian through the Dietitians Association of Australia: https://daa.asn.au/find-an-apd/

In Canada, you can find a local Registered Dietitian at the Dietitians of Canada website: http://www.dietitians.ca/Find-a-Dietitian.aspx .

In the Nederlands, you can find a local Registered Dietitian at http://www.nvdietist.nl/ .


May we ask in which country you live?
08-10-2017 06:53 PM
pinktomate Ah? From here: b12-vitamin.com/injections or here: mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/vitamin-b12/dosing/hrb-20060243

I was tested after I started the injections.
08-10-2017 06:42 PM
silva
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktomate View Post
I was a little irregular, I must admit. But later I followed the correct procedure: two weekly 1mg injection for six weeks, an injection a month since then...
where are you getting your information? Dosage of 1mg (1000mcg) twice weekly is minimum dosage.
This may explain better-
http://www.b12-vitamin.com/dosage/

Were you tested?
08-10-2017 05:35 PM
pinktomate I was a little irregular, I must admit. But later I followed the correct procedure: two weekly 1mg injection for six weeks, an injection a month since then...
08-10-2017 05:27 PM
pinktomate Silva, I was a little irregular, I must admit. But about a year ago I did the correct procedure: two weekly injections of 1mg for some weeks, monthly injections since then...

My blood levels were about 900 pg/mL, but the test is not reliable, I have read.
08-10-2017 05:15 PM
silva
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktomate View Post
I've been vegan for around five years, since I was fifteen. I was doing fine, but since last year I've struggled with fatigue and concentration problems. I tried to correct the most "common" problems, B12, calcium, vitamin A and D deficiency, poor protein intake, zinc, iron... but nothing has worked. It's frustrating because almost every ****ing nutritional problem causes fatigue and brain fog, so is imposible to tell what is wrong unless you try all the blood tests in existence.

The last two options in my mind are a diet poor in fat and omega 3 deficiency (I didn't really consider it till now, because when I was a child I never ate fish, and neither did my family, that aren't vegetarian and always were ok, so I thought it was not a problem). But I can´t keep guessing. I`m a student and I don't have a lot of money to spend buying all the superfood and supplements that, maybe, could help me.

I went to a couple of nutritionist and doctors, but none of them knew how to handle the situation. The best advice was the typical "Just eat meat and everything will be ok". Thank you, Captain Obvious.

If it continues like this, I really think I would give up.

A couple of questions: how common are in vegan problems due to bad fat intake? What other problems could I be overlooking?

I would be grateful for any advice.

PD: sorry for my english.
You say you've tried to 'correct' common deficiencies - like B12? Haven't you been supplementing B12 all along?
Have you had your blood levels checked for B12?
That's what worries me more than anything, that's something that stays in your system for years (up to 5 years) and if you haven't been supplementing correctly you would certainly need more than what you can do on you own!

https://www.vegansociety.com/resourc...ut-vitamin-b12
08-10-2017 05:13 PM
jessandreia
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktomate View Post
jessandreia, I don't know what do you mean. Hummus (I never really look what it was till now xD) has a lot of protein and fat, wich is good, but, I don't know if I'm mistaken, but it seems that the fat in hummus comes from the oliva oil used in the recipe. It has the problem of omega 6, but, well, I guess oliva oil is good.
Try to increase your fat without worrying so much about omega 6 and see how you feel.
08-10-2017 04:36 PM
Jamie in Chile If you are already supplementing iodine, and already using iodized salt, and especially if you don't notice any improvement soon, it may be that iodine isn't the problem. I am not sure if I can help you more about nutrition since it seems you know about as much as I do.

Try this (found email, the email provided the link and I copy and paste from it below)

If you go to the link below, that should help, I don't think you need the email.

https://veganoutreach.org/vegan-mentorship-program/

The largest study on veg recidivism found that 86% of people who go vegetarian lapse back into meat-eating, and 70% of those who go vegan lapse. Every time a vegan quits, her friends see her struggle and get the impression that vegan eating is too hard.

This means that for every two steps forward our movement makes, we’re taking one step back. No wonder we’re not creating a vegan world fast enough!

Vegan Outreach is not only willing to talk about this—we are tackling it. It’s messy. Struggling vegans often need one-on-one support. Every person is different. Some need info about nutrition. Some need help staying vegan due to an unsupportive family. Others need cooking help.

Vegan Outreach is addressing this problem with our Vegan Mentor Program:
  • Over 650 vegan mentors are working one-on-one with over 900 mentees.
  • Free recipes, cooking tips, and videos are helping new vegans who don't know where to start in the kitchen.
  • We give people someone to talk to, to vent to, to listen. To connect with. We help create a social support system to keep people from feeling overwhelmed and lonely.
  • There's a lot of inaccurate nutrition info floating around out there–our mentor program refers people to solid sources that help them thrive.
08-10-2017 04:33 PM
pinktomate jessandreia, I don't know what do you mean. Hummus (I never really look what it was till now xD) has a lot of protein and fat, wich is good, but, I don't know if I'm mistaken, but it seems that the fat in hummus comes from the oliva oil used in the recipe. It has the problem of omega 6, but, well, I guess oliva oil is good.
08-10-2017 04:25 PM
pinktomate Just a week or so. I use iodinized salt, but I often buy food in vegetarian restaurants and so, and you know how the vegetarian community is known for usually using no salt and no sugar in their food.
08-10-2017 04:24 PM
jessandreia
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktomate View Post
Sometimes I have fruit, bread and soya milk for breakfast. I eat beans or lentils for lunch and dinner, with rice, some vegetables, and juice. Sometimes I drink soya milk and peanuts in between.

I have struggled with depression in the past, so I know how it feels for me, and I know this isn't it. I don't feel sad or anxious; I know there are things that I would love to do, that I'm exited about, but when I try to do it I just can't concentrate on it. Reading is exhausting, I don't remember things, I feel like I need a break all the time.

The recommended daily fat intake is around 60g, and it's a little hard to achieve that mark in a vegan diet. That would need a lot of avocado and nuts, but the problem is that vegetables that are rich in fat are high in omega 6, which is bad for omega 3, my other preocupation. Fat is important for brain good function.

In my last blood test, my HDL cholesterol (the "good" cholesterol) was about 70mg/dL, wich isn't "too low", but is a lot less than the normal person.
Hummus
08-10-2017 04:20 PM
Jamie in Chile 1000 micrograms in US is recommended max amount, but this is likely conservative. 1000-3000 micrograms per day is common in Japan without problems. 3mcg per day safe limit recommended in Japan. Due to seafood, seaweed eating they are more confident in setting a higher limit.


"In some coastal regions of Japan, residents who eat a traditional diet
rich in seafood and seaweed have an average iodine intake of 1-5 mg/day,
with some residents consuming as much as 20-40 mg/day.
A few people developed goiters at this intake level."

"The basis for existing recommendations of maximum safe intake level of iodine are studies by Freund et al.(48) and Thomas et al.(57), who iodinated the water to three
Florida prisons. They found minimal changes and no clinical problems when water
with 1 mg/L iodine was provided to prisoners for up to 3 years. (i.e. 2-4 mg/day)."

"Emergency use of iodine are generally limited to approximately 3 weeks [Water
And sanitation for Health Project (67), Zoeteman (16), and
The National Academy of Sciences (11)]."

Source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...00309-0035.pdf


Looking at that you could double or treble or more your daily intake and you would still not likely be reaching an amount that is concerning in terms of maximums. I suggest you try a higher dosage for a while (assuming you don't eat large quantities of iodized table salt or other iodine sources like seaweed). How long have you been on it?

08-10-2017 04:13 PM
Jamie in Chile
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktomate View Post
I recently started taking a supplement with 150mcg of iodine (100% of the daily intake), Should I be taking more at the begining?

It would be great if you could pass me that email
Let me check the notes and see whether or not I can find the email. As to iodine, what sources of iodine do you get in your diet and do you use table salt and if so how often and is it iodized? I think the answers to those questions might help with what I say.
08-10-2017 04:12 PM
Jamie in Chile Instead of paying for supplements could you pay for a DHA blood test? However, DHA feels like a long shot to me, because the problems are more in older men and take years to show. As you say, you never ate fish before. So perhaps keep that in mind. I did a DHA blood test.

It sounds to me like you CAN afford a supplement if it's the 1 thing that will work, but you can't afford to be paying lots of them. You could experiment with different supplements as a one off, and then ditch them if no immediate gain, and stick with one that causes changes. Obviously that won't work for things that take a longer time to show, but often people respond to supplements quite quickly so you could try one for a few weeks and discard if no change.

It must feel like a lot of work at this point but it will be worth it if you are able to stay vegan long term.
08-10-2017 04:04 PM
pinktomate I recently started taking a supplement with 150mcg of iodine (100% of the daily intake), Should I be taking more at the begining?

The Vegan Health article about omega 3 explains how complicated is this. Flaxseeds have omega 3 in the form of ALA, that must be converted to DHA, with a convertion ratio of around 2-5%. Aproximately, you need 30g of flaxseeds a day to get 120mg of DHA omega 3, wich is around the recommended intake, a little less. But is hard to know, because the studies regarding ALA as a main source of omega 3, or vegan/vegetarian absoption, are limited. The one that find better results was a japanese study with a small group of elderly (and fish eating) men, with 3g of ALA a day, during ten months. Other studies have found no improvement with similar intakes.

(I have been eating around 30g of flaxseeds during the last two weeks. I don't know if I could afford an algae supplement.)

It would be great if you could pass me that email
08-10-2017 03:50 PM
Jamie in Chile I eat a mixture of peanuts, almonds and walnuts. I eat peanuts because they taste the best, almonds for calcium and walnuts for omega 3.
08-10-2017 03:45 PM
Jamie in Chile Nutrition wise you seem to have a good understanding of things. One thing that you didn't mention was iodine. According to the Becoming Vegan nutrition book, "Vegans may not get enough iodine unless they use iodized salt, eat sea vegetables, or take a multivitamin-mineral supplement that contains iodine, otherwise a vegan diet is likely to provide only about 10 percent of recommneded levels." You see, a lot of iodine sources are animal products.

Symptons of iodine deficiency including lethardy/tiredness/fatigue and trouble concentrating, according to
https://www.thyroidfoundation.org.au...ine-deficiency

If you use table salt, check it has iodine. If it doesn't, try and find another one that does.

Search for specific sources of iodine as well like strawberries and cranberries were the ones I came up with and I bought cranberries specifically for iodine. I love them anyway.

I use iodine for water purification also which may help also. I suggest you try a supplement for a while and see if it helps.

Keep in mind there is such a thing as too much iodine. I have some research on that point it you would like to see it?

Nuts and avocadoes are good for fat, walnuts contain omega 3, and consider adding ground chia/flax seeds to foods for more Omega 3.

I think you should try a vegan nutrionist. I recall I got an email from Vegan Outreach (USA) asking about people who were struggling. They might help you for free. Do you want me to try and find the email and put you in touch?
08-10-2017 03:37 PM
pinktomate Sometimes I have fruit, bread and soya milk for breakfast. I eat beans or lentils for lunch and dinner, with rice, some vegetables, and juice. Sometimes I drink soya milk and peanuts in between.

I have struggled with depression in the past, so I know how it feels for me, and I know this isn't it. I don't feel sad or anxious; I know there are things that I would love to do, that I'm exited about, but when I try to do it I just can't concentrate on it. Reading is exhausting, I don't remember things, I feel like I need a break all the time.

The recommended daily fat intake is around 60g, and it's a little hard to achieve that mark in a vegan diet. That would need a lot of avocado and nuts, but the problem is that vegetables that are rich in fat are high in omega 6, which is bad for omega 3, my other preocupation. Fat is important for brain good function.

In my last blood test, my HDL cholesterol (the "good" cholesterol) was about 70mg/dL, wich isn't "too low", but is a lot less than the normal person.
08-10-2017 02:30 PM
jessandreia What does a day of eating look like for you?

Maybe you are struggling mentally, which is going to affect you physically, rather than it being anything physically wrong with you? Only you know that, though.

Not sure what you mean by bad fat intake. Foods that are considered "bad" fats? I'd say nothing wrong with it in moderation.

Side note: Your english is fine. Didn't even notice it's not your first language until I read that.
08-10-2017 01:34 PM
pinktomate
Health problems.

I've been vegan for around five years, since I was fifteen. I was doing fine, but since last year I've struggled with fatigue and concentration problems. I tried to correct the most "common" problems, B12, calcium, vitamin A and D deficiency, poor protein intake, zinc, iron... but nothing has worked. It's frustrating because almost every ****ing nutritional problem causes fatigue and brain fog, so is imposible to tell what is wrong unless you try all the blood tests in existence.

The last two options in my mind are a diet poor in fat and omega 3 deficiency (I didn't really consider it till now, because when I was a child I never ate fish, and neither did my family, that aren't vegetarian and always were ok, so I thought it was not a problem). But I can´t keep guessing. I`m a student and I don't have a lot of money to spend buying all the superfood and supplements that, maybe, could help me.

I went to a couple of nutritionist and doctors, but none of them knew how to handle the situation. The best advice was the typical "Just eat meat and everything will be ok". Thank you, Captain Obvious.

If it continues like this, I really think I would give up.

A couple of questions: how common are in vegan problems due to bad fat intake? What other problems could I be overlooking?

I would be grateful for any advice.

PD: sorry for my english.

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