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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-25-2017 09:24 AM
121938
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocrob37 View Post
So, it turns out I am becoming one of the people that I had issues with in the past. I hate labels and do or did get a little annoyed when I heard other people judge people when they did not fit into the perfect vegetarian or vegan. I used to read posts that upset me because I felt people were being so judgmental. I would always voice my opinion and do not regret what I have said. I think anyone that is trying to improve the way they live to better their health, environment, and animal welfare is doing a good job or at least better than the overall population. I was just across the street at a restaurant that serves sausages and go there for their amazing beer selection. I was sitting next to two guys and listened to them order their food. It sort of made me a little disgusted hearing about the different animal products they were ordering. I think I judged a little bit. lol I still think people should live how they want and am not going to judge my friends for eating meat. I am wondering if this will change? It might. I will still support anyone who is decreasing their meat consumption or trying to live vegetarian and not doing a perfect job. I just know that I made hummus from scratch today and spread it on an amazing sandwich that had avocado and tomato. It was better than any lunch I could have gotten at a restaurant. It is a little sad that so many people do not know what they are missing out on. They are conditioned to think eating meat tastes great and are too close minded to try the alternative. It is also sad they do not know or care how badly the environment is being depleted by their actions. I won't even get into animal welfare because people are in denial and I think we need to take one step at a time. I still have a long way to go, but feel pretty good about my footprint in this life. It can improve and I am sure it will.
Interesting post and I can relate to some of what you've said here.

Regarding judging people because they are meat eaters, this is how I look at it. If they don't know because no one has ever brought it to their attention (the violence, etc.) I'll give them a pass and a nudge in the better direction. If they do know and they are trying to cut back/give it up, I'll encourage them in every way possible. If they do know and they don't care, I'll judge the hell out of them just like they would judge their neighbour who insists on beating and kicking their poor dog every time that guy walks past it on the porch. And I also, if involved in a discussion, will make sure that they understand that this person (me) considers their meat eating as participating in animal abuse which makes them an animal abuser. And if they want to challenge me on that and get all huffy because I've done the unthinkable and 'judged' them, then I'm very open to admit that I used to be an animal abuser too, and then my eyes were opened to what I was doing and I quit participating.

And all of that said, when it comes to family and their meat eating, I back off. I can do a better job being an example of compassion and good health to them then if I pick fights with the people that I'm closest too. The fights can be had with people they might encounter online and those people can show them that 'they are participating in animal abuse, etc.' and then I can be that friendly vegan in the family who only encourages and guides if it comes to them wanting to change because they've begun to understand. And in turn, I'm willing and able to be that 'bad cop' online for other peoples friends and family who haven't yet seen the light.

I think the whole 'we can't judge others' phenomena has come about because of the Christian heritage of so many where most of us have heard the phrase, 'judge not lest ye be judged' to the point that we've become phobic about the possibility that someone will consider us judgemental. But really, if you knew that some guy was molesting a little kid, would any of us not judge that person and would we not ALL feel fully justified in doing so? If any of us knew that some woman in a care home was slapping around a 95 year old person who couldn't defend themselves, would any of us NOT judge that person? Of course we would and society would support that 'judgement' although no one would condone vigilantism. So why do we get all paranoid about being thought 'judgemental' when it comes to meat eaters who don't care that animals suffer every moment of every day and by the billions?

I think the thing is to always keep it polite, no name calling, and to have the facts firmly in line for any discussion that may result.
02-22-2017 11:06 PM
Sidhuriel When I first went vegetarian 10 years ago I was very pushy about it and would update my profiles with all kinds of statuses against meat and such. It got me in a lot of fights and definitely didn't get any omni's interested in trying.

Through the years I've become more mellow and actually rarely post about being veggie anymore, instead I post what I eat and sometimes things about the vegan charity I work for. And guess what, two people have gone vegetarian because I am ''such a positive and non judgemental vegetarian'' that I inspired them to try it themselves without pushing anything.

So yes, I am not a snob. I see every effort someone makes for the animals as a step in the right direction and I encourage everything an omni does to reduce their imprint. Because if step one is taken, they might get to step two themselves
02-22-2017 10:15 PM
Beets&Beats The vegetarians I know push their diet less and are less snobbish than the paleo and primal people I know.
Doesn't help that paleo and primal costs a bomb to maintain so some of those people are naturally like that anyway...

But yep. I second all the above. heh.
08-16-2016 09:53 AM
Symondezyn Very well said by everyone above. I think what you're going through is a 100% natural progression, and one I can completely relate to.

Becoming vegan for me was a very emotionally charged experience. There's no question the cognitive bias @Aliakai mentioned was a HUGE part of what took me so long to make the change. I used to think I was being ethical by choosing free range and organic eggs/dairy, and believed the lies taught to me all my life that meat and dairy were necessary for good health. Once my eyes were opened though, I was full of remorse for my own ignorance and there was no going back. Therefore, it is all the more appalling to me to be constant witness to the prevalence of meat and cheese, and animal products in everything - even things they do not need to be in. It is painful to see cheerful advertising and people happily devouring their disgusting cruelty-laden platefuls.

Perhaps the most painful is my own family trying to convince my husband (who eats vegan at home with me and is trying to make changes in his own life) that he can still have meat and cheese when he comes over to their place, or whenever he can "get away" from me... he is trying desperately to quit it, and is having a really tough time, so that to me is one of the worst things; it's one thing to witness the oblivious ignorance of strangers but to see your own family participating in it, and trying to sabotage the efforts of someone who is trying to make the right choices, is pretty rough
08-16-2016 03:48 AM
imemilyalice Good to know about it.
05-16-2016 07:36 PM
Thalassa4 I'm an environmental vegan firstly, but also for the cause of global starvation, animal cruelty and personal health. There are more reasons to be vegan, than to not be vegan, unless one lives on a rocky cliff without access to modern grocery stores, or perhaps is a homeless person in an industrialized country. Even someone who swears they would die if they were vegan can reduce down to backyard pasture eggs or goat cheese, they don't need to be participating in factory farming at all.

I think it's natural to DISCERN. Discernment is different than being a snob. It's OK to have values, and a fully working brain. Tolerance as an end unto itself is frankly intellectually lazy and morally corrupt.

I look at ads for things like three cheese egg biscuits now and think dear lord that's disgusting. Because it is. What is seen, can't be unseen. It's like unlearning to read, or being a TV zombie after understanding how brain washing works...it's nearly impossible to do without significant cognitive decline. Do you really want that?

When I think of veggie snobs, I think of people who ONLY advocate raw diets, who look down on others for eating faux meats, or not being able to buy everything organic. An obnoxious vegetarian is one without patience and manners for the process of people who are considering or in transition. ..it's awful to try to force some one when they really may struggle with learning to eat differently, if they are sincere in their efforts.
05-15-2016 10:15 AM
ocrob37 Very well said.
05-14-2016 05:07 PM
Aliakai
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocrob37 View Post
So, it turns out I am becoming one of the people that I had issues with in the past. I hate labels and do or did get a little annoyed when I heard other people judge people when they did not fit into the perfect vegetarian or vegan. I used to read posts that upset me because I felt people were being so judgmental. I would always voice my opinion and do not regret what I have said. I think anyone that is trying to improve the way they live to better their health, environment, and animal welfare is doing a good job or at least better than the overall population. I was just across the street at a restaurant that serves sausages and go there for their amazing beer selection. I was sitting next to two guys and listened to them order their food. It sort of made me a little disgusted hearing about the different animal products they were ordering. I think I judged a little bit. lol I still think people should live how they want and am not going to judge my friends for eating meat. I am wondering if this will change? It might. I will still support anyone who is decreasing their meat consumption or trying to live vegetarian and not doing a perfect job. I just know that I made hummus from scratch today and spread it on an amazing sandwich that had avocado and tomato. It was better than any lunch I could have gotten at a restaurant. It is a little sad that so many people do not know what they are missing out on. They are conditioned to think eating meat tastes great and are too close minded to try the alternative. It is also sad they do not know or care how badly the environment is being depleted by their actions. I won't even get into animal welfare because people are in denial and I think we need to take one step at a time. I still have a long way to go, but feel pretty good about my footprint in this life. It can improve and I am sure it will.
I think it's natural to deal with feelings of frustration over closed-minded people, especially when the facts are most certainly on your side. There is a difference, I think, between "judging people," which to me means seeing them as less human or less worthy than someone else, and knowing that what they are doing/thinking is wrong and being frustrated by it. The moment you start seeing yourself as superior, rather than simply being frustrated by their ignorance and refusal to educate themselves, I think is the tipping point.

To be fair, there are a few early threads I wrote being afraid of the vegan label, because I was afraid I'd become dogmatic and begin fitting the "vegan stereotype." The more I affirmed and lived by my beliefs, even as I tried to deny them, the I realized that the stereotype is more a mental projection on the parts of omnivores and other people who have a hard time living what they believe or taking the effort to change. It's a form of cognitive bias that keeps the brain wanting to do things it's used to rather than taking the first tentative steps toward change.

I learned more about this bias when I began eating disorder treatment. At first my therapist thought the veganism was simply an extension of the disorder and desire to be thin, but even as she suggested I abandon it, I found that I defended it with an almost religious zeal, because it is a part of my spirituality and lifestyle that I -know- is right. You may be going through that realization now.

The difference is keeping a compassionate view and understanding that cognitive bias is a real roadblock that our brains use to protect ourselves, and that change is difficult. Although it doesn't excuse exploitation, it can help you personally feel better when you see these things. The most you can do is take the opportunities you have to compassionately nudge for change while you continue to live your own beliefs in your life, regardless of the opinions and feelings of others. I hope this helps even a little...
05-14-2016 02:39 PM
ocrob37
Veggie Snobs

So, it turns out I am becoming one of the people that I had issues with in the past. I hate labels and do or did get a little annoyed when I heard other people judge people when they did not fit into the perfect vegetarian or vegan. I used to read posts that upset me because I felt people were being so judgmental. I would always voice my opinion and do not regret what I have said. I think anyone that is trying to improve the way they live to better their health, environment, and animal welfare is doing a good job or at least better than the overall population. I was just across the street at a restaurant that serves sausages and go there for their amazing beer selection. I was sitting next to two guys and listened to them order their food. It sort of made me a little disgusted hearing about the different animal products they were ordering. I think I judged a little bit. lol I still think people should live how they want and am not going to judge my friends for eating meat. I am wondering if this will change? It might. I will still support anyone who is decreasing their meat consumption or trying to live vegetarian and not doing a perfect job. I just know that I made hummus from scratch today and spread it on an amazing sandwich that had avocado and tomato. It was better than any lunch I could have gotten at a restaurant. It is a little sad that so many people do not know what they are missing out on. They are conditioned to think eating meat tastes great and are too close minded to try the alternative. It is also sad they do not know or care how badly the environment is being depleted by their actions. I won't even get into animal welfare because people are in denial and I think we need to take one step at a time. I still have a long way to go, but feel pretty good about my footprint in this life. It can improve and I am sure it will.

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