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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-02-2009 09:51 AM
Earthling
Quote:
Originally Posted by TScott View Post

you know, im eating almond milk with my cereal right now and truly, i cant really tell the difference



I feel the same about using soy milk, I hardly notice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post

In any case, I don't know of any commercial dairies that are run like this. The Hare Krishna communities mentioned earlier in this thread treat their herds acceptably- but I believe they only produce enough milk for their own communities' use.



It's also tremendously expensive to produce and the cost would probably be prohibitive. A pint of normal cow's milk here is about 50p, a pint of Hare Krishna milk costs about £3 to produce.
12-02-2009 09:39 AM
Tom Hi, jlo! I think the other posts have pretty much covered it.



Theoretically, I think the problems of what to do with the male calves, and their mothers after they were no longer producing milk, could be solved. Of course, one would have to be okay with the idea of using animals so long as they are treated well during their lives and not killed before their natural lives were over.



Cows could be kept with their calves, and only milk produced in excess of what her calf needs would be taken. Cows who aren't being milked, as well as the males (oxen), might be draft animals on the farms where they lived. HOWEVER- I suspect that the level of dairy consumption we now have would be unsustainable by these methods, and milk products would be more expensive than they are now.



In any case, I don't know of any commercial dairies that are run like this. The Hare Krishna communities mentioned earlier in this thread treat their herds acceptably- but I believe they only produce enough milk for their own communities' use. I'm sure some folks have "pet" cows who live good, full lives, but again I don't personally know any... so I'm afraid you'll have to keep looking. Sorry I couldn;t offer more help.
12-02-2009 08:47 AM
TScott you know, im eating almond milk with my cereal right now and truly, i cant really tell the difference
11-29-2009 11:33 PM
River
Quote:
Originally Posted by @rno View Post

Have you tried mothermilk?



What's that?
11-29-2009 11:23 PM
@rno Have you tried mothermilk?
11-29-2009 08:59 PM
clarita osita
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

Of course she's going to be made into meat, if not immediately, then inevitably, on every commercial farm, free range, organic, or local. People can drink all the milk they want, but it's important to be clear about what's involved. They're not sanctuaries.



Sorry, I meant to specify that she'd be kept longer, while she was of use to them and still producing milk, before being sold off particularly young (yes, I realize they're still killed much younger than their natural lifespan).
11-29-2009 08:43 PM
froggythefrog I am not sure. I think the best way to find a local farm where you can check out the farm and ask questions is your seasonal grower's market or local coop.
11-29-2009 04:51 PM
Irizary
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockindancer86 View Post

I think they might've used her milk for the babies or something instead of just selling her off for meat.



Of course she's going to be made into meat, if not immediately, then inevitably, on every commercial farm, free range, organic, or local. People can drink all the milk they want, but it's important to be clear about what's involved. They're not sanctuaries.
11-29-2009 04:43 PM
clarita osita Besides switching to plant milks, I'd definitely go for a small, local farm's milk as an alternative. I used to buy milk from a small organic farm in northern California because their milk tasted great and I was satisfied with the conditions of the cows (this was pre-vegetarian for me). They didn't keep most of their males, but they sold them to companies which normally raised them for beef. They tried to avoid selling them for veal, which was at least a preferable alternative to me. Also, they were organic but when a cow truly needed antibiotics they would give them to her and remove her from the herd. I'm now sure what they did with them, but I think they might've used her milk for the babies or something instead of just selling her off for meat.



Anyway, it certainly wasn't an ideal situation, but I thought it was better than some of the alternatives.



If you'd like to continue using cows milk, that's totally your choice. Don't feel bullied by anyone here (not that I think they WERE bullying you, they were answering the question how they thought most appropriate). Just make sure you choose as humane a dairy farm as possible, with conditions you can live with.
11-29-2009 01:10 PM
monsterbeans I check out companies who I buy from who use cows milk.

The ones I buy from are obviously UK based. They use dual purpose breed so rather than being shot at birth, the males are either reared for beef on their own farm or sold to organic beef farms rather than being sold for veal. The majority of the UK eats beef, so its a compromise. Some supermarkets in the UK have also made the move towards dual breeds.

They are also organic, and in the UK, this means that the cows must spend all but the cruddiest weather out in fields, and must have good bedding in the winter. I'm not aware of the standards elsewhere.



Its a case of asking as many questions to the companies as possible.
11-29-2009 11:23 AM
penny79 If you want to save money, can you drink water (tap/filtered) instead of cow milk (or soy or ANY milk)?
11-28-2009 10:10 PM
River
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeganKosmos View Post

I didn't read that thread. Anyway, if the same video has been posted twice that means it's good. Colleen Patrick-Goudreau is a very smart and articulate activist. I really admire her.



I do too, she is amazing.
11-28-2009 10:04 PM
VeganKosmos
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricGaia View Post

I posted that video in another thread! :P



I didn't read that thread. Anyway, if the same video has been posted twice that means it's good. Colleen Patrick-Goudreau is a very smart and articulate activist. I really admire her.
11-28-2009 09:52 PM
River
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeganKosmos View Post

Exploitation of cows (or goats) for their milk can never ever be animal friendly. There is a lot of suffering on every single drop of milk humans steal from the cows and the calves.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhzxuYgHoMs



I posted that video in another thread! :P
11-28-2009 09:50 PM
VeganKosmos Exploitation of cows (or goats) for their milk can never ever be animal friendly. There is a lot of suffering on every single drop of milk humans steal from the cows and the calves.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhzxuYgHoMs
11-28-2009 09:07 PM
Begonia If you really want to be fair to the animals, use plant based milks (soy, rice, almond...).
11-28-2009 09:01 PM
Her Jazz
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderRandy View Post

Where do the Krishnas get their milk?



When possible, Krishnas will get their own milk. Most temples have at least one small cow protection farm connected to it.



If it's not available that way then they usually buy organic milk and/or cut down on the dairy consumption. I have seen milk alternatives being used at the temple here where I live.
11-28-2009 08:55 PM
Her Jazz Store bought milk is not animal friendly.



Some farms are able to offer friendly milk but in limited quantities as they don't force their cows to become pregnant. I live near such a farm but rarely get milk from them because of it's limited availability and high cost.



But if you are a big milk fan, then it's a good way to go but most people do not live near places like that.



I hope to one day be able to take care of cows on my own property. It's a dream of mine.
11-28-2009 07:47 PM
Irizary
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegiKate View Post

If you live some where with farming, look for a small farm that you can buy from. If you're in the barn, checking things out, you'll have a good feel for the place.



...and ask if you can be there when they remove calves from mothers. And ask what happens to the males, and if you can see where they end up. And ask where the cows get slaughtered when they're spent, and check that out too. There's more to their lives than just a sanitized moment on the farm.
11-28-2009 07:40 PM
VegiKate If you live some where with farming, look for a small farm that you can buy from. If you're in the barn, checking things out, you'll have a good feel for the place.
11-28-2009 05:38 PM
Irizary
Quote:
HOWEVER - IF one is going to continue to drink cow's milk, are there certain brands that are "better"? Horizon Organics...



Just FYI, that's factory farmed. Most people think that organic animal products can't come from factory farms, but that's incorrect. Put "horizon dairy factory farming" into Google and several articles will come up.



On every commercial dairy farm - whether free range, organic, or local - calves are forcefully removed from their mothers on the day of or within days of birth, at great distress to both. They may look and call for each other for 6 months. The worst abuses of dairy happen at every dairy farm.
11-28-2009 04:54 PM
Earthling No, the OP asked if we know of any milk brands where the cows are treated fairly. It's perfectly reasonable and not unsupportive to explain why none of them can be considered that way.



As for the Krishnas, a small family-run farm would be preferable. Second to that I believe they buy organic, though contrary to the dairy industry's propaganda that says very little about the welfare.



I really think for your own peace of mind you have to see the cows in their living conditions and see if you deem them fair or not.
11-28-2009 04:50 PM
Tofu-N-Sprouts
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderRandy View Post

All excellent points. HOWEVER - IF one is going to continue to drink cow's milk, are there certain brands that are "better"? Horizon Organics, perhaps, or Alta Dena? Where do the Krishnas get their milk?



What Randy said...



This is the "New To Vegetarianism" thread and as such, we should be offering support or at least trying to answer the question in a helpful way - not trying to convince someone they can't drink milk on their first post!

The OP asked about dairies that treat their animals better, if you don't know of any, then just say so and save the other comments for a vegan thread.
11-28-2009 04:42 PM
julz
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderRandy View Post

All excellent points. HOWEVER - IF one is going to continue to drink cow's milk, are there certain brands that are "better"? Horizon Organics, perhaps, or Alta Dena? Where do the Krishnas get their milk?



These were the brands at Whole Foods that I asked about in my earlier response. *shrugs*
11-28-2009 04:36 PM
jlo939 Thank you everybody for your responses. That is very informative information as I've never really been aware of the process of milking cows. I already drink soy milk because of the health benefits and it tastes great, but my selfishness tends to lean towards milk cow since it's cheaper. But definitely, I am making the switch.
11-28-2009 04:07 PM
River Almond, Hemp, Soy, Rice are ALL animal friendly milks.
11-28-2009 03:47 PM
WonderRandy All excellent points. HOWEVER - IF one is going to continue to drink cow's milk, are there certain brands that are "better"? Horizon Organics, perhaps, or Alta Dena? Where do the Krishnas get their milk?
11-28-2009 03:09 PM
derwenna I would have to agree that cow milk production is not and cannot be animal friendly. Whatever the conditions the cows are kept in while they are being farmed, there's always the issue that they are made to have a calf every year (meaning they're pregnant and lactating at the same time for most of the year) and then what happens to that calf - usually either raised for veal/beef or just shot at birth, while some females will become replacement dairy cows. The dairy cows will be killed very prematurely, for example in the UK it's normally by the age of 5 years, when a cow's natural lifespan is 25 years, and I imagine it will be similar in other countries. For these reasons the whole 'milk from happy cows' concept is pretty meaningless.
11-28-2009 10:38 AM
penny79 I can't think of any animal-friendly cow milks but we can probably suggest other milks if you wish.
11-28-2009 07:23 AM
julz I asked the checker at Whole Foods if their milk came from cows that are humanely raised. He said maybe a little better than other brands, but not much.



He then suggested that I watch Food Inc.



I just tried almond milk the other day. It was quite good. I am not vegan, but I am using far less animal products.
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