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-deleted because it turned into a post that wasn't what I was wanting.-
Street Punk or Oi anyone?
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#2
- white heat
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Posted 04 May 2004 - 01:28 PM
Well, there's nothing wrong with skinheads, as long as we're not talking about nazi skinheads. There's a big misconception about what a skinhead is. Skinheads support the working class/blue-collar movement. Anyhow, The Business and Stiff Little Fingers are some of my favorite bands :)
My kid can kick your ass at Halo
#3
- Kyra*Bang
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Posted 04 May 2004 - 01:51 PM
I know what a skinhead is :-D, but as you said there is a big misconception, which is why I directly noted that I am not a nazi skinhead. That part was already in the post haha, but I made an edit referring to the music I was talking about. Which is both political and nazi skinhead punk. Also, there is a big misconception that all nazi skinheads are bad. Of course racism is bad, but that doesn't make every neo-nazi some "black/jew/etc-bashing", violent person. I have a very close friend who is a neo-nazi (he is actually the person who got me listening to all kinds of skinhead music as well as getting me into animal rights activism). He is one of the nicest guys I've EVER met, yet people think he's some big violent asshole just because he's a neo-nazi. I really hate generalizations.
xoxo
Kyra
xoxo
Kyra
~Kyra~
#5
- Star Captain
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Posted 04 May 2004 - 02:20 PM
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I know what a skinhead is :-D, but as you said there is a big misconception, which is why I directly noted that I am not a nazi skinhead. That part was already in the post haha, but I made an edit referring to the music I was talking about. Which is both political and nazi skinhead punk. Also, there is a big misconception that all nazi skinheads are bad. Of course racism is bad, but that doesn't make every neo-nazi some "black/jew/etc-bashing", violent person. I have a very close friend who is a neo-nazi (he is actually the person who got me listening to all kinds of skinhead music as well as getting me into animal rights activism). He is one of the nicest guys I've EVER met, yet people think he's some big violent asshole just because he's a neo-nazi. I really hate generalizations.
xoxo
Kyra
xoxo
Kyra
So he's not violent, but holds racist beliefs about Jews, Blacks, and other non-Aryans? I was under the impression that neo-naziism involves racism, no matter what. Correct me if I'm wrong.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower
April 16, 1953
President Dwight D. Eisenhower
April 16, 1953
#6
- Kyra*Bang
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Posted 04 May 2004 - 02:36 PM
That pretty much sums it up. He has feelings towards those people, but:
1 - He would NEVER be violent...he's a pacifist.
2 - He doesn't badmouth them.
I know that sounds odd, him and I had a long heated discussion about this far more than once and now I know how he is, though I still don't understand why. He personally hates people of ethnicities other than aryan, BUT he doesn't voice that hatred. He'll even be nice to them if it is needed, he's not the type to be rude or mean...but he still has those reserves against them. His father was (before he passed on) a very strong advocate for neo-nazis, and he said that he saw his father get so hurt and so angry over things that he just can't be like that. He still has his feelings on the things, but he won't force them on people. I mean all of us are like that to an extent. Example: You hate your boss. But you won't tell your boss that you hate him (unless you are reading to get fired or are about to quit etc) because you know that it will cause tension and that it will start trouble that you don't want. Or if you have seen the standup for Carlos Mencia. He talks about how he doesn't think we should discriminate but he just wants to give people of that descent (from 9-11) mean looks sometimes. It's kind of the same principal to a more extreme degree. He also isn't friends with other neo-nazis because he said that they all act on their hatred instead of keeping it to themselves. At first I didn't want to be this guys friend, because I have strong views against nazis, but after thinking about the whole thing...everyone bitches about how people should be tolerant. But doesn't that mean tolerating the intolerant as well?
Anyhow, that was way too long of a reply haha
xoxo
Kyra
1 - He would NEVER be violent...he's a pacifist.
2 - He doesn't badmouth them.
I know that sounds odd, him and I had a long heated discussion about this far more than once and now I know how he is, though I still don't understand why. He personally hates people of ethnicities other than aryan, BUT he doesn't voice that hatred. He'll even be nice to them if it is needed, he's not the type to be rude or mean...but he still has those reserves against them. His father was (before he passed on) a very strong advocate for neo-nazis, and he said that he saw his father get so hurt and so angry over things that he just can't be like that. He still has his feelings on the things, but he won't force them on people. I mean all of us are like that to an extent. Example: You hate your boss. But you won't tell your boss that you hate him (unless you are reading to get fired or are about to quit etc) because you know that it will cause tension and that it will start trouble that you don't want. Or if you have seen the standup for Carlos Mencia. He talks about how he doesn't think we should discriminate but he just wants to give people of that descent (from 9-11) mean looks sometimes. It's kind of the same principal to a more extreme degree. He also isn't friends with other neo-nazis because he said that they all act on their hatred instead of keeping it to themselves. At first I didn't want to be this guys friend, because I have strong views against nazis, but after thinking about the whole thing...everyone bitches about how people should be tolerant. But doesn't that mean tolerating the intolerant as well?
Anyhow, that was way too long of a reply haha
xoxo
Kyra
~Kyra~
#7
- Star Captain
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Posted 04 May 2004 - 07:18 PM
I guess being hateful and not voicing it is better than being outwardly violent, but I still would take issue with someone saying that racism is OK as long as it's internal for a few reasons:
1) It's great that he's not violent, but some day he will probably raise kids or influence other human beings. What if his racism wears off on them, but his non-violence doesn't?
2) Violence isn't the only thing that qualifies something as being evil. For instance, making African Americans pay double interest on credit cards or auto loans wouldn't be violent, but it would be evil and unethical.
3) If a moral framework of hatred is instilled in enough people, as many non-violent types as there may be, some will be violent and act on the racist tenets of their value set. If you dehumanize or objectify people based on ethnicity, it's not as big of a leap for people to do violence to them, even when the non-violent ones preach peace.
So, in summary, I'm not criticizing your friend. But I humbly challenge the belief that racism is OK as long as it's carried out in a non-violent way.
And to answer your "tolerating the intolerant" question, I think that it's a matter of what you consider axiomatic to your moral theory. If you take it to the relativist or semantic extreme, sure, that sound like it makes sense. Sort of like when Ted Nugent says, "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns." Try making guns into puppets, broccoli, oxygen, etc., and you see my point. So, there are things I will never tolerate, though I consider myself a tolerant person. I will never tolerate someone's desire to rape, to kill, or to trespass on the liberties of another. I think there can be boundaries to tolerance, and I think that racism falls outside my scope of tolerance.
:) Was that a long enough drawn-out post? Sorry for texting your eyes off. I hope this illustrates my original point more clearly.
Peace and soybeans,
Dr. Schmeebis
1) It's great that he's not violent, but some day he will probably raise kids or influence other human beings. What if his racism wears off on them, but his non-violence doesn't?
2) Violence isn't the only thing that qualifies something as being evil. For instance, making African Americans pay double interest on credit cards or auto loans wouldn't be violent, but it would be evil and unethical.
3) If a moral framework of hatred is instilled in enough people, as many non-violent types as there may be, some will be violent and act on the racist tenets of their value set. If you dehumanize or objectify people based on ethnicity, it's not as big of a leap for people to do violence to them, even when the non-violent ones preach peace.
So, in summary, I'm not criticizing your friend. But I humbly challenge the belief that racism is OK as long as it's carried out in a non-violent way.
And to answer your "tolerating the intolerant" question, I think that it's a matter of what you consider axiomatic to your moral theory. If you take it to the relativist or semantic extreme, sure, that sound like it makes sense. Sort of like when Ted Nugent says, "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns." Try making guns into puppets, broccoli, oxygen, etc., and you see my point. So, there are things I will never tolerate, though I consider myself a tolerant person. I will never tolerate someone's desire to rape, to kill, or to trespass on the liberties of another. I think there can be boundaries to tolerance, and I think that racism falls outside my scope of tolerance.
:) Was that a long enough drawn-out post? Sorry for texting your eyes off. I hope this illustrates my original point more clearly.
Peace and soybeans,
Dr. Schmeebis
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower
April 16, 1953
President Dwight D. Eisenhower
April 16, 1953
#8
- Lemonhead Boy
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Posted 06 May 2004 - 02:43 PM
I thought a skinhead was merely someone with no hair.
"The more sensitive you are, the more likely you are to be brutalised, develop scabs, never evolve. Never allow yourself to feel anything, because you always feel too much"
Marlon Brando
Marlon Brando
#9
- Kyra*Bang
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Posted 06 May 2004 - 02:53 PM
Of course there are limits to tolerance, but I am talking about on small things...not extreme things such as ones you mentioned ("I will never tolerate someone's desire to rape, to kill")
As for the liberties of others, I tolerate it because believe it or not, some of those people are the nicest ones I've met. Like my nazi friend. Now, I don't like what his veiws are (and your post kind of irked me because it made me feel as if you were questioning MY views on the subject rather than my friends...and that pisses me off a little to be quite honest with you) but I tolerate them because he is one of my best friends and despite that hatred he feels, he is a great person and a very nice man.
argh okay I started looking over this whole post, and I'm beginning to get a little angry. WHY exactly are we talking about nazis. That's going to make OTHERS talk about Nazis in this post and I'll never get an answer to the question I asked to begin with...and I just wanted a freaking answer, not a debate.
As for the liberties of others, I tolerate it because believe it or not, some of those people are the nicest ones I've met. Like my nazi friend. Now, I don't like what his veiws are (and your post kind of irked me because it made me feel as if you were questioning MY views on the subject rather than my friends...and that pisses me off a little to be quite honest with you) but I tolerate them because he is one of my best friends and despite that hatred he feels, he is a great person and a very nice man.
argh okay I started looking over this whole post, and I'm beginning to get a little angry. WHY exactly are we talking about nazis. That's going to make OTHERS talk about Nazis in this post and I'll never get an answer to the question I asked to begin with...and I just wanted a freaking answer, not a debate.
~Kyra~
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